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Monster Hunter General Discussion Thread.

This would scale any post-launch monster from any game to elder-level by the logic you are currently using here just because they can kill/one-shot the hunter. It's just game mechanics
No but this Lagiacrus is literally built different. It literally no-sells attacks from a Rathalos and then has a long ass fight with the player character that it ends up surviving by the end of it. That ain't normal for an Apex Tier monster post-game.
 
yet it gets absolutely bodied by Uth Duna. It slightly annoys Uth with the first bite and only makes it go back with electricity discharge
 
yet it gets absolutely bodied by Uth Duna. It slightly annoys Uth with the first bite and only makes it go back with electricity discharge
He’s talking about the Lagi fought in the intro mission that shrugged off attacks from Rathalos in the cutscene.
Is there an Uth Duna quest with this specific Lagiacrus? Was focused on Lagi nor did any large monster interrupt so I didn’t notice any on the map.
 
Still, it wasn't stated to be an exception among Lagis. Seems pretty much like game mechanics stuff
 
Still, it wasn't stated to be an exception among Lagis. Seems pretty much like game mechanics stuff
Wouldn’t need to bring up other Lagiacrus given its the first and only one afaik we canonically face, not saying I’m really wanting to argue this Lagi is Elder level or anything, though I do think normal Monsters could range up to Elder level given we’ve had crap like a Tigrex seemingly ready to face of with Bazel after taking a dive bomb while another beat two Hunters that could slay Elder Dragons IIRC, Zinogre facing Scorned Magnamalo and Yian Garuga vs Deviljho.
As mentioned the Hunter is specifically trying to capture it so I ain’t focusing on the hunt nor do I want to rate a normal monster higher just cause it’s a hunt for the post Zho Shia Hunter as then we’d have Likely Low 6-B Yian Kut Ku, I’m more thinking the ultimate move, the explicitly devastating attack that our Hunter themselves feel is imperative to prevent, could scale to them given it takes time to ready.
 
After somewhat lowballing the lagoon as having the same lateral area as the walkable area, the other ranges for the calculation look like:
  • The Mid End (including the Lagiacrus’s depth level up, or about half the lagoon) is 6.1 kilotons or just barely the minimum of 7-C Town level.
  • The High End (including the entire lagoon, which is not logical, since you don’t take damage at the very edges of the lagoon while underwater, even if you don’t dodge, implying the energy doesn't reach that far) is 12.3 kilotons or 7-C Town level.
However, I think this is basically as high as it's gonna get if/when more concrete calculations come in, at least using the same methods. Even if I were to include the large outlying areas of the lagoon in the energy calculation, the attack definitely won’t break 50 kilotons (the halfway point of Town level). Food for thought, I suppose.

…this Lagiacrus showing it shrugs off an attack from its supposed rival even with a weakness to fire…
No but this Lagiacrus is literally built different. It literally no-sells attacks from a Rathalos and then has a long ass fight with the player character that it ends up surviving by the end of it. That ain't normal for an Apex Tier monster post-game.

My opinion on “cutscene power” is the same as it was before. Yes, this Lagiacrus tanks two fireballs here and is really going for that Dalthydon to the point it’ll behave highly aggressively to capture it. But there is nothing implying this monster is different from other Lagiacrus we encounter in the Scarlet Forest. The same individual takes as much fire damage as anyone else, and we all know their Turf War. Even in the very same hunt (which I can upload footage of), Rathalos and Lagiacrus have the same turf war showing they can handily trade blows and it’s a toss-up depending if Lagiacrus is fully charged or not—this individual still loses to Rathalos unless in its supercharged state.

The real kicker is that, if this individual were uniquely powerful among its kind, the characters would likely mention something pertaining its unique nature. Erik and the Hunter, the two individuals on site, have already concurred before on the exact issue of enriched monsters in the Wyvern Sparks and Rose Thorns cutscene. But all that’s said is:

"A Lagiacrus! That's the cause of all this!"

It’s a Lagiacrus! That’s the twist. The only odd thing here is its location, not any property of the monster in question. It's not Tempered (we know what those look like) or enriched by the Dragontorch (especially since it explicitly just recently arrived in the Forbidden Lands). It is, by all accounts, a typical Lagiacrus. It's even got 3 Strength by the in-game metric, while in-game individuals who still lose to Rathalos can go up to 5 Strength.

Is there any evidence that the hunt goes for a particularly abnormally long time? I don’t recall them mentioning something like that. In lieu of such things, that is my stance on the matter based on the evidence provided.

yet it gets absolutely bodied by Uth Duna. It slightly annoys Uth with the first bite and only makes it go back with electricity discharge
While I agree that Lagiacrus definitely doesn’t win the encounter, I wouldn’t say it gets bodied by Uth Duna. In an extended physical brawl the Lord of the Seas definitely stands as inferior, but the lightning panic button inherently makes an outright at-parity loss against Uth Duna pretty hard to imagine.

As an aside, I do wish they gave Lagiacrus two Turf Wars against Uth Duna with the same charge-dependent mechanic, because now it feels like vs. Uth Duna, Lagiacrus can pull lightning out of nowhere while against Rathalos if it’s not charged, it can’t use it at all.
 
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Honestly, why not have a Varies tier for the monsters? We know and have seen stronger and weaker members of a species so why not include all of it with a varies?
 
Honestly, why not have a Varies tier for the monsters? We know and have seen stronger and weaker members of a species so why not include all of it with a varies?
We’ve had this very idea come up before! The point of discussion there is which monsters to give which rankings or new tabs and why—I don’t know about you all, but it certainly sounds like a ton of work to reshuffle everything for everyone. It might be best to just make one central document to which all monster profiles can link.

It would certainly help solve the issue of Lunagaron tying with Zinogre in their Turf War only for Fiorayne to come in riding a Lunagaron to strike down Malzeno.
 
We’ve had this very idea come up before! The point of discussion there is which monsters to give which rankings or new tabs and why—I don’t know about you all, but it certainly sounds like a ton of work to reshuffle everything for everyone. It might be best to just make one central document to which all monster profiles can link.

It would certainly help solve the issue of Lunagaron tying with Zinogre in their Turf War only for Fiorayne to come in riding a Lunagaron to strike down Malzeno.
I remember, it would certainly solve a lot of issues as we not documenting individuals but rather a species.
 
It would also help when new feats like Lagiacrus' two different area nukes get whipped out of nowhere when they weren't shown to be that powerful in prior games. It especially helps in Lagiacrus' case because our current Apex Tier scaling comes from a casual Lagiacrus physical feat.
 
Even in the very same hunt (which I can upload footage of), Rathalos and Lagiacrus have the same turf war showing they can handily trade blows and it’s a toss-up depending if Lagiacrus is fully charged or not—this individual still loses to Rathalos unless in its supercharged state.
Does it have to be fully charged to win? Could’ve sworn I’ve seen it win as long as long as charged
 
I did a very rough Low End calculation on a Google Doc to estimate how much energy it would take to boil just the walkable area of the map and nothing of the lagoon.
I mean, it just... Doesn't do that? I think you're confusing it with light reflecting off of the water, it does look a little odd but near the beginning you can see a patch of it in between the section of dry land and the diving point, so it probably just coincidentally spread through time passing (hence why you aren't seeing that at every other part of the walkable region)
Given that Lagiacrus and other equal-tier monsters currently scale to High 8-C, we can see an argument that this attack emits about 47× as much energy as the prior calculated strength. One could also argue that this AP doesn't scale to normal attacks as it's a scripted one-time-per-hunt thing.
This definitely doesn't mix with your statement immediately after that it is genuinely survivable, given that's, even using the updated One-Shot value that got proposed on a thread and died, 3 times over that threshold
 
I mean, it just... Doesn't do that? I think you're confusing it with light reflecting off of the water, it does look a little odd but near the beginning you can see a patch of it in between the section of dry land and the diving point, so it probably just coincidentally spread through time passing (hence why you aren't seeing that at every other part of the walkable region)
It appears from the video that the attack causes a wave of electrified water, after which a bunch of steam rises from every part of the walkable area (and sections of the lagoon's surface). What else could those clouds be? Dust, I suppose? In any case, that was the reasoning for this particular calculation method. I'm sure there are better ways to calc the attack, especially since it's not really provable that the entire volume of water posited is evaporated!

This definitely doesn't mix with your statement immediately after that it is genuinely survivable, given that's, even using the updated One-Shot value that got proposed on a thread and died, 3 times over that threshold
Which part doesn't mix with my statement? I kind of presented both possibilities in the original post with the "I could see an argument" wording, no? I'm not really sure what you're referencing here, sorry. Given that the giant attack is factually, genuinely survivable, it seems to simply be a regular attack with vast range, and should be comparable to a Lagiacrus's normal attacks, with whatever implications that has, I suppose.

Also, I was not aware of One-Shot values as a thing when I made the post. It's 8 times, right? I thought that was only used for the purposes of determining the outcome of VS threads, not in-universe scaling.

Also Steve has upgraded too.
Seregios was always "intelligent enough" do this, but I'm glad to finally see it in game!
 
Do you think we can calculate Lagiacrus moving so fast that he creates a giant whirlpool that he then detonates with electricity as both a speed feat and an AP feat since this is supposed to be a stronger attack than normal?
 
Do you think we can calculate Lagiacrus moving so fast that he creates a giant whirlpool that he then detonates with electricity as both a speed feat and an AP feat since this is supposed to be a stronger attack than normal?
If someone has an idea how to calculate the speed necessary to make a water funnel like that, it’s not me lol

In any case, while Lagiacrus moves very fast during the attack (much faster than normal during hunts) it’s not more than Supersonic, which is what Lagiacrus’s profile already shows.

As for AP, I am of the stance that the giant lightning wave is comparable to normal attacks, just much wider in range.
 
As for AP, I am of the stance that the giant lightning wave is comparable to normal attacks, just much wider in range.
I disagree as it’s treated as a devastating attack that our Hunter themselves find imperative, enough to jump in the water where it has the advantage, to stop and it takes a period of time to ready up.
I’m of the opinion to prioritize how it’s being treated over saying it’s not different from it’s normal attacks just cause gameplay damage.
 
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It appears from the video that the attack causes a wave of electrified water, after which a bunch of steam rises from every part of the walkable area (and sections of the lagoon's surface). What else could those clouds be? Dust, I suppose?
Genuinely not unlikely given the highest concentration is around the dry land. Given it's not that much "steam" either it may also be the case that a part of it boiled but not really it's full mass like what's calculated here
Which part doesn't mix with my statement? I kind of presented both possibilities in the original post with the "I could see an argument" wording, no?
I simply do not believe you can strongly argue that it wouldn't scale, assuming you didn't call it an outlier (but given the Diablos Kinship attack from years back that we never figured out what to do with, they'd just have better grounds for 8-A than High 8-C if this calc was more airtight)
Also, I was not aware of One-Shot values as a thing when I made the post. It's 8 times, right? I thought that was only used for the purposes of determining the outcome of VS threads, not in-universe scaling.
For the most part, that correction is there so people don't try to upscale with ridiculous multipliers but it's still bizarre to scale a character 47 times below what doesn't one-shot them with no caveats
 
I've played Frontier and it ain't there.
 
It says Monster Hunter Explore right there.
 
I've been waiting for someone to comment on the gigantic metal elephant in the room. I'm a bit of a FF novice, despite having decided to marathon the games. Are you expecting anything cool from him?

I heard about an interview with the Director of FFXIV with some information indicating that they want to bring the Omega mechanics from FFXIV to this one.
 
I've been waiting for someone to comment on the gigantic metal elephant in the room. I'm a bit of a FF novice, despite having decided to marathon the games. Are you expecting anything cool from him?

I heard about an interview with the Director of FFXIV with some information indicating that they want to bring the Omega mechanics from FFXIV to this one.
I mean, it's Omega, so I personally am expecting Shinryu to manifest within the same area code in like
24 hours or less
Anyways, uuuuh, 14 Omega mechanics, jfc
This is the base Omega Raid in FF14
 
Imagine if they outright confirm that this Omega is just as strong as he is in FF.
I mean ignoring the fact that it's Omega, and thus, the second of the two dimension hopping mfs introduced in 5, they kinda did?
Quoting the devs
As Final Fantasy 14 players, when we think about what happened with the battle with Omega, we think about the Warrior of Light had the battle with Omega, and then we remember that there was that small Omega that we have now, which has, we could think of it that it has a heart and it travels around with Alpha the Chocobo, and so from the Final Fantasy 14 player's perspective, if they were to battle Omega, they might not be able to attack Omega because they they would feel bad and they would feel sorry for attacking the Omega that they know.

And it's for this reason why we decided that in the content that will be implemented in Monster Hunter Wilds, it would be the same body of Omega, but inside it would be a different AI as it were, and that's the reason why the Omega monster in Monster Hunter Wilds is called Omega Planetes, and in terms of the story, in the collaboration content on Monster Hunter Wilds side, the Alpha and Omega will make an appearance, and they will join the hunter as they go up against Omega Planetes, and you can look forward to the reason why that happens in the story.
So yeah, it's the same body, different AI, which has some amount of ***** stuff regarding that different AI bit, seeing as how part of how Omega itself got so strong was due to the information and stuff it had collected and adapted to, which would still have some amount of scaling to FFs high end, and it can't actually be a generic omega body (we know how they look, Omega looks different).
So uh, yeah
This is a massive outlier anyhow, but still
 
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