Below Of That Exists (Naruto Layers Addition)

[AlternativePrinciple]

Morning Nard fans, noticed some layers missing from the verse so I thought why not fix that? Hopefully this goes smoothly

Note: ">" represents one layer

Spoiler: Sealing

Potency Instances​

• Madara has a baseline resistance due to being able to resist the Edo Tensei as accepted on his profile. Despite having a baseline resistance to sealing, Hashirama was able to seal him using his Gates of the Great God (GotGG)
• As accepted by the wiki Madara is resistant to the Edo Tensei sealing. Additionaly he resisted Hashirama's sealing jutsu when his alive, but his limbo clone and he himself was sealed by Naruto. The limbo clones are said to be duplicates of its users and hence should have all of his abilities and resistances.
• Jigen was able to seal Naruto even though he has a baseline resistance by being able to resist the first hokage necklace seal and Pain's CT

Potency​

• Magnet Release Rasengan > Gate of the Great God > Edo Tensei
• Jigen > Hashirama Necklace/CT

Resistance Instances​

Alive Madara was able to resist Hashirama’s Gate of the Great God

• Alive Madara; Gate of the Great God > Edo Tensei

(1-layers)

As accepted by the wiki, Juubi Jinchūriki are resisted to Hashirama sealing jutsu

• Juubi Jinchūriki; Gate of the Great God > Edo Tensei

(1-layer)

Kaguya is only able to be sealed by the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei and hence should be resistant to all other forms of sealing. Furthermore, Kaguya was hit with Naruto's Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasenshuriken and was unaffected by its effects.

• Kaguya; Magnet Release > Gate of the Great God > Edo Tensei

(2-layers)

Six Paths Chibaku Tensei​

The only way to seal Kaguya was to use the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei (6PCT), hence she should be resistant to all types of sealing jutsu except for 6PCT

potency​

• Six Paths Chibaku Tensei > Magnet Release Rasengan > Gate of the Great God > Edo Tensei

(3-layer)

Spoiler: Paralysis Inducement

Potency Instances​

• Naruto and Sauke both resist the effects of Black Receivers as a Jinchūriki and Rinnegan user, yet was still paralyzed by Kaguya physicaly touching them
• Outer Path Chains are able to bind Tailed Beasts who are resistant to Black Receivers. Outer Paths Chains are said to have greater binding strength then Black Receivers
• Wood style is able to paralyze Tailed Beasts
• Naruto is able to paralyze Madara and his limbo clones using magnet release

potency​

Kaguya > Outer Path Chains > Black Receivers
Wood Style > Black Receivers
Outer Path Chains > Black Receivers
Black Zetsu > Black Receivers
Magnet Release > Black Receivers

Resistance Instances ​

Kaguya was still able to move despite being hit with a Magnet Release Rasenshuriken

• Kaguya; Magnet Release > Black Receivers

(1-layer)

Naruto resist Kaguya’s paralysis

• Naruto; Kaguya > Outer Path Chains > Black Receivers

(2-layers)

Naruto ressists Outer Paths Chains

• Naruto; Outer Path Chains > Black Receivers

(1-Layers)

Susanoo is able to negate the effects of Hashirama's wood style

• Susanoo; Wood Style > Black Receivers

(1-layers)

Spoiler: Possession

Instance​

• Tailed Beast and their respective Jinchuriki are resistant to Black Receivers which causes possession. Yet the tailed beast can forcefully take possession of their host

Potency​

Tailed Beasts > Black Receivers

Resistance​

• Perfect Jinchuriki; Tailed Beast > Black Receivers

(1-Layers)

Spoiler: Enhanced Senses for invisibility

Instances​

• The Rinnegan which is able to perceive both Chakra and Souls, was unable to perceive Indra and Asura souls. Both these souls went unnoticed by the likes of Nagato, Obito and Madara, and could only be perceived by both Hagoromo and Kaguya.
• Sage Mode, KCM1 and sharingan can see the King of Hell (KoH)

Potency​

Asura/Indra > KoH > souls

For being able to Percive Indra/Ashura

• Hagoromo/Kaguya; Ashura/Indra > KoH > Souls

(2-layers)

Sage Mode, Sharingan Users and KCM1 for being able to percive KoH

• SM/Sharingan/KCM1; KoH > Souls

(1-layers)

Spoiler: Power Nullification

Instances​

• Naruto is aresistant to Black Receivers which are capable of nullifying Sasuke Amaterasu amped Susanoo Arrow.
• TSO can nullify all ninjutsu including Naruto’s who is resistant to Black Receivers due to being a Jinchūriki
• 6PCT is acepted by the wiki is able to nullify abilities which would mean i can negate Sage of Six Paths resistance to power nullification.

Potency​

• 6PCT > TSO > Black Receivers

Resistance​

• Six Paths Chakra; TSO > Black Recivers

(1-layers)

Spoiler: Automatic Translation

Intances​

• Only by using the MS can some deciver the Uchiha stone tablet
• using the rinnegan, the stone tablet can fully decivered

Potency​

Rinnegan > MS > sharingan

Spoiler: Madness Manipulation (Type 2)

Instances​

• Naruto is resistant to madness manipulation (type 2) even as a child and yet he still goes mad when using kurama's chakra

Potency​

Kurama > Shinobi

Heres a sandbox with all the layers for their respective abilities/resistance

Naruto Layers

vsbattles.fandom.com

Agree- FinePoint, DDM, ActuallySpaceMan42

Disagree-

 

[Robo432343]

Agree, infinite layered genjutsu seems fine

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Agree, infinite layered genjutsu seems fine

Don’t forget layered CM1

 

[karo_senpaii]

For the sealing add baryon mode Naruto as resistant to ishikki sealing.
For powernull are the rods really powernull? I'm not totally sure. If it is then fine.

I don't get the non physical interaction though. It doesn't work like that

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

For the sealing add baryon mode Naruto as resistant to ishikki sealing.

There is not much proof of that, thats why i did not add it

For powernull are the rods really powernull? I'm not totally sure. If it is then fine.

They were accepted in a recent thread to be able to powernull

I don't get the non physical interaction though. It doesn't work like that

The chains work by restraining you both physically and spiritually/soul. Since naruto is resistant to all of its effects in KCM1, his resistant to the chains NPI but that didnt stop nagato from being able to NPI his soul

 

[karo_senpaii]

There is not much proof of that, thats why i did not add it

They were accepted in a recent thread to be able to powernull

The chains work by restraining you both physically and spiritually/soul. Since naruto is resistant to all of its effects in KCM1, his resistant to the chains NPI but that didnt stop nagato from being able to NPI his soul

1. He straight up broke out of ishikki seal when he went baryon mode.

2. Okay

3. That's layered soul manipulation if it's accepted. Layered npi for example is someone can touch souls so that's baseline npi then there is someone soul he can't touch , then another person can touch that soul he couldn't previously touch then that's a layer of npi

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

1. He straight up broke out of ishikki seal when he went baryon mode.

didnt know that was a seal, I'll add that in

3. That's layered soul manipulation if it's accepted. Layered npi for example is someone can touch souls so that's baseline npi then there is someone soul he can't touch , then another person can touch that soul he couldn't previously touch then that's a layer of npi

lets see how this plays out

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Zamn

 

[Kaydee1648]

you just keep coughing up a thread right after the other
I’ll read through later probably won’t

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

you just keep coughing up a thread right after the other

i would have done these a long time ago, but didn't have the time for it.

I’ll read through later probably won’t

 

[Arcker123]

• Wood style is able to paralyze Tailed Beasts

Wrong link here. This is the scan for Obito's chains. This should also give Susanoo users layered paralysis resistance since they can resist wood release bindings.

Asura/Indra > Limbo > KoH

I believe you can further layer KoH, given the fact it's invisible to regular Shinobi, who can see souls. This also upscales the Sharingan's normal invisibility sight, given how Itachi was able to see and target the KOH.

Your scale should be

Hags > Transmigrants >Rinnegan > Limbo > Sharingan (Sasuke with EMS getting selfie stuck) > KOH > Regular Shinobi > Souls

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Wrong link here. This is the scan for Obito's chains. This should also give Susanoo users layered paralysis resistance since they can resist wood release bindings.

opps, I'll fix that

I believe you can further layer KoH, given the fact it's invisible to regular Shinobi, who can see souls. This also upscales the Sharingan's normal invisibility sight, given how Itachi was able to see and target the KOH.

Your scale should be

Hags > Transmigrants >Rinnegan > Limbo > Sharingan (Sasuke with EMS getting selfie stuck) > KOH > Regular Shinobi > Souls

I see what you did here I'll add them in

 

[Arcker123]

KCM and Sage Naruto could also see the King so you can scale both of those abilities above the KOH for enhanced senses also. This scan works for both given how KCM Naruto is remembering what he saw in Sage Mode.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Doesn't the person who's being attacked automatically see it? Or is that only with the interrogation method

 

[Arcker123]

Latter

 

[Godernet]

Morning Nard fans, noticed some layers missing from the verse so I thought why not fix that? Hopefully this goes smoothly

Spoiler: Sealing

Potency Instances​

• Hashirama was able to seal Edo Madara with his Gate of the Great God
• As accepted by the wiki Madara is resistant to the Edo Tensei sealing. Additionaly he resist Hashirama's sealing jutsu when his alive, but his limbo clone was sealed by Naruto. The limbo clones are said to be duplicates of its users and hence should have all of his abilities and resistances.
• Jigen was able to seal Naruto even though he resisted the first hokage necklace seal and Pain's CT

Potency​

• Magnet Release Rasengan > Gate of the Great God > Edo Tensei
• Jigen > Hashirama Necklace/CT

Resistance Instances​

Alive Madara was able to resist Hashirama’s Gate of the Great God

• Alive Madara > Gate of the Great God > Edo Tensei

(2-layers)

This is just 1 layer.

The way Layers work is an ability that ignores the resistance of an individual.

Resisting Edo sealing would be baseline resistance, Gate of the Great God would be a single-layered hax, and Alive Madara would have 1 layer of resistance.

Edo Tensei Binding(Baseline Ability) -> Edo Madara(Baseline Resistance) -> GoTGG(1 Layered Ability) -> Alive Madara (1 Layer of Resistance)

Magnet Release Rasengan being 2 is fine bc it was working on Juubidara before he substituted with Limbo.

As accepted by the wiki, Juubi Jinchūriki are resisted to Hashirama sealing jutsu

• Juubi Jinchūriki > Gate of the Great God > Edo Tensei

(2-layer)

Would be 1 bc of the reasons above.

Kaguya is only able to be sealed by the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei and hence should be resistant to all other forms of sealing. Furthermore, Kaguya was hit with Naruto's Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasenshuriken and was unaffected by its effects.

• Kaguya > Magnet Release > Gate of the Great God > Edo Tensei

(3-layers)

I'm fine with the lore behind Kaguya giving her 2 via the idea that only SPCT would work, but I don't really agree with the Rasenshuriken point.

Bc to pin Madara and seal him with Magnet Rasengan, Naruto and Sasuke had to continuously drill him while the seal engulfed his body.

Meanwhile, the 9 RS that Naruto used, we all used as an attack to instantly explode on Kaguya.

Might be a bit of a leap in logic to say that Magnet Release RS carries the same sealing properties just bc they're both magnet style, one had to apply the seal and visibly show it, the other exploded in tandem with 8 other RS for AP with no indication of a sealing formula being present.

Naruto BM is able to resist Ishikki's sealing jutsu despite being sealed just moments before

• Naruto BM > Jigen > Hashirama necklace/CT

(2-layers)

This just isn't traditional sealing. Isshiki just pinned him down and dropped a heavy cube on his head.

Not really an ability overriding a resistance as much as Isshiki just overpowering Naruto.

Six Paths Chibaku Tensei​

The only way to seal Kaguya was to use the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei (6PCT), hence she should be resistant to all types of sealing jutsu except for 6PCT

potency​

• Six Paths Chibaku Tensei > Magnet Release Rasengan > Gate of the Great God > Edo Tensei

(3-layer)

ig this works.

Potency Instances​

• Naruto and Sauke both resist the effects of Black Receivers as a Jinchūriki and Rinnegan user, yet was still paralyzed by Kaguya touching them
• Outer Path Chains are able to bind Tailed Beasts who are resistant to Black Receivers. Outer Paths Chains are said to have greater binding strength then Black Receivers
• Wood style is able to paralyze Tailed Beasts
• Naruto is able to paralyze Madara and his limbo clones using magnet release

potency​

Kaguya > Outer Path Chains > Black Receivers
Wood Style > Black Receivers
Outer Path Chains > Black Receivers
Black Zetsu > Black Receivers
Magnet Release > Black Receivers

Resistance Instances ​

Kaguya was still able to move despite being hit with a Magnet Release Rasenshuriken

• Kaguya > Magnet Release > Black Receivers

(2-layer)

Naruto resist Kaguya’s paralysis

• Naruto > Kaguya > Outer Path Chains > Black Receivers

(3-layers)

Naruto ressists Outer Paths Chains

• Naruto > Outer Path Chains > Black Receivers

(2-Layers)

Susanoo is able to negate the effects of Hashirama's wood style

• Susanoo > Wood Style > Black Receivers

(2-layers)

Ehh, I'm kinda adverse to the idea of layered paralysis inducement since a lot of it is just applying greater and greater force to break out of stronger and stronger binds rather than an ability that ignores resistances.

And you wouldn't really give layered if someone with higher LS pins someone that broke out of someone else's LS.

Maybe staff would have a different opinion on that.

Spoiler: Enhanced Senses for invisibility

Instances​

• The Rinnegan which is able to perceive both Chakra and Souls, was unable to perceive Indra and Asura souls. Both these souls went unnoticed by the likes of Nagato, Obito and Madara, and could only be perceived by both Hagoromo and Kaguya.
• Sage Mode, KCM1 and sharingan can see the King of Hell (KoH)
• Sage Mode and Sharingan can't see Limbo Clones, but the rinnegan can

Potency​

Asura/Indra > Limbo > KoH > souls

For being able to Percive Indra/Ashura

• Hagoromo/Kaguya > Ashura/Indra > Limbo > KoH > Souls

(4-layers)

Sage Mode, Sharingan Users and KCM1 for being able to percive KoH

• SM/Sharingan/KCM1 > KoH > Souls

(2-layers)

Rinnegan for beinf able to percive Limbo Clones

• Rinnegan > Limbo > KoH > Souls

(3-layers)

Souls in Naruto aren't really invisible, so it doesn't really add to the chain, across the war, and even when Nagato gave everyone back their souls, they were visible for everyone to see.

KoH is fine, I'm not sure what to make of the Indura and Asura example, tho, bc Hags and Kags are both sensory types and familiar with Asura and Indura, whereas Nagato and Obito would have no idea who or how to distinguish different presences in Naruto's soul that wouldn't be familiar to them.

heck, we even see Madara was able to sense Indura in Sasuke to an extent, although he had no way of knowing what exactly that connection between them that "surpassed blood" was, without someone with insight like Hagaromo or Kaguya.

Even Base Naruto sensed that connection in Sasuke as far back as the FKS, so I'm more inclined to say it's a private connection these Otsutsuki, their descendants, and those that inherit the spirits of the descendants will share as spiritual relatives in a sense.

Limbo is also weird bc it's not technically "invisible", it's a being that exists in an alternate dimension overlapping their real world that can only be perceived with SPSM and seen with the Rinnegan.

That seems more like it requires a sort of interdimensional vision or sensory-based NPI rather than it being a layered hax.

So, more of a horizontal movement from traditional invisibility rather than a vertical jump in the potency of the invisibility.

Spoiler: Power Nullification

Instances​

• Naruto is aresistant to Black Receivers which are capable of nullifying Sasuke Amaterasu amped Susanoo Arrow. Additionally he is resistant to Obito’s Outer Path Chains.
• TSO can nullify all ninjutsu including Naruto’s who is resistant to Black Receivers due to being a Jinchūriki
• 6PCT as acepted by the wiki is able to nullify abilities

Potency​

• 6PCT > TSO > Outer Path Chains > Black Receivers

Resistance​

• Six Paths Chakra > TSO > Outer Path Chains > Black Recivers

(3-layers)

• Naruto > Outer Path Chains > Black Receivers

(2-layers)

There's no connective tissue that really proves Outer Path Chain is a power null that ignores resistance to power null if Naruto resisted them both, so that's not really a layer.

TSO being above the Black Receivers is fine. And SPCT being above SP Chakra users is fine

Black Recievers(Baseline Ability) -> Naruto (Baseline Resistance) -> TSO (Layered Power Null) -> Six Paths Chakra Users (Layered Power Null Resistance) -> SPCT (2 Layered Power Null)

Spoiler: Non-Physical Interaction

Instances​

• Naruto is resistant to The Outer Paths Chains. These chains are capable of binding the astral self of its targets. But Nagato and Naruto’s Tailed Beast arms are capable of interacting with nards soul

Potency​

• Rinnegan Users/Tailed Beasts Chakra Arm > Outer Path Chains

(1-layer)

This just looks like regular resistance ngl

You would need to prove the Outer Chains can ignore your ability to interact with NPI on that level for it to be a layered hax.

Agree-
Disagree-

In short, I think these chains are fine.

• Sealing: Edo Tensei Binding(Baseline Sealing) -> Edo Madara(Baseline Sealing Resistance) -> GoTGG(1 Layered Sealing) -> Alive Madara (1 Layer of Sealing Resistance) -> Magnet Release Rasengan (2 Layers of Sealing) -> Kaguya (2 Layers of Sealing Resistance) -> SPCT (3 Layers of Sealing: this one could be explained bc of SPCT's Power Null and Class Z LS rather than just sealing that ignores sealing resistance to sealing so it might be charitable tbh)
• Power Null: Black Recievers(Baseline Power Null) -> Naruto (Baseline Power Null Resistance) -> TSO (Layered Power Null) -> Six Paths Chakra Users (Layered Power Null Resistance) -> SPCT (2 Layered Power Null)

The Paralysis Inducement could be, but ehh I'm not sure, maybe someone on staff more knowledgeable about layered hax as far as PI could explain how that works. ig I'm Neutral for now.

The other stuff I don't really agree with for my prior listed reasons.

 

[Godernet]

Another thing worth adding is that maybe you can use this scan to get layered info analysis for the Dojutsu required to read the Uchiha Stone Tablet if thats even a thing lol

the Tablet can't be read without higher and higher Occular prowess.

MS would get 1 layer while Rinnegan would have 2.

 

[Arcker123]

Another thing worth adding is that maybe you can use this scan to get layered info analysis for the Dojutsu required to read the Uchiha Stone Tablet if thats even a thing lol

the Tablet can't be read without higher and higher Occular prowess.

MS would get 1 layer while Rinnegan would have 2.

Fits with this

Automatic Translation

Automatic Translation is the ability to understand and utilize verbal or non-verbal communication without any prior knowledge of the language. Some characters with this ability are limited in some way, such as only translating verbal communication or text. While others can translate virtually...

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Souls in Naruto aren't really invisible, so it doesn't really add to the chain, across the war, and even when Nagato gave everyone back their souls, they were visible for everyone to see.

I think this would just show all ninja have some level of ESP which is consistent. I don't take this to be an antifeat.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

This is just 1 layer.

The way Layers work is an ability that ignores the resistance of an individual.

Resisting Edo sealing would be baseline resistance, Gate of the Great God would be a single-layered hax, and Alive Madara would have 1 layer of resistance.

Edo Tensei Binding(Baseline Ability) -> Edo Madara(Baseline Resistance) -> GoTGG(1 Layered Ability) -> Alive Madara (1 Layer of Resistance)

Magnet Release Rasengan being 2 is fine bc it was working on Juubidara before he substituted with Limbo.

Would be 1 bc of the reasons above.

That makes much more sense lol.

I'm fine with the lore behind Kaguya giving her 2 via the idea that only SPCT would work, but I don't really agree with the Rasenshuriken point.

Bc to pin Madara and seal him with Magnet Rasengan, Naruto and Sasuke had to continuously drill him while the seal engulfed his body.

Meanwhile, the 9 RS that Naruto used, we all used as an attack to instantly explode on Kaguya.

Might be a bit of a leap in logic to say that Magnet Release RS carries the same sealing properties just bc they're both magnet style, one had to apply the seal and visibly show it, the other exploded in tandem with 8 other RS for AP with no indication of a sealing formula being present. This just isn't traditional sealing. Isshiki just pinned him down and dropped a heavy cube on his head

Not really an ability overriding a resistance as much as Isshiki just overpowering Naruto.

ig this works.

alright

Ehh, I'm kinda adverse to the idea of layered paralysis inducement since a lot of it is just applying greater and greater force to break out of stronger and stronger binds rather than an ability that ignores resistances.

And you wouldn't really give layered if someone with higher LS pins someone that broke out of someone else's LS.

Maybe staff would have a different opinion on that.

lets see how this plays out

Souls in Naruto aren't really invisible, so it doesn't really add to the chain, across the war, and even when Nagato gave everyone back their souls, they were visible for everyone to see.

KoH is fine, I'm not sure what to make of the Indura and Asura example, tho, bc Hags and Kags are both sensory types and familiar with Asura and Indura, whereas Nagato and Obito would have no idea who or how to distinguish different presences in Naruto's soul that wouldn't be familiar to them.

heck, we even see Madara was able to sense Indura in Sasuke to an extent, although he had no way of knowing what exactly that connection between them that "surpassed blood" was, without someone with insight like Hagaromo or Kaguya.

Even Base Naruto sensed that connection in Sasuke as far back as the FKS, so I'm more inclined to say it's a private connection these Otsutsuki, their descendants, and those that inherit the spirits of the descendants will share as spiritual relatives in a sense.

they were still unable to see or tell what it was

Limbo is also weird bc it's not technically "invisible", it's a being that exists in an alternate dimension overlapping their real world that can only be perceived with SPSM and seen with the Rinnegan.

That seems more like it requires a sort of interdimensional vision or sensory-based NPI rather than it being a layered hax.

So, more of a horizontal movement from traditional invisibility rather than a vertical jump in the potency of the invisibility.

k

There's no connective tissue that really proves Outer Path Chain is a power null that ignores resistance to power null if Naruto resisted them both, so that's not really a layer.

The edo Jins were getting their cloak nullified by the chains when obito used it on them and they resist black recivers power null. Naruto on the other hand can resist the power null of the black recivers and outer path chains unlike the other Jins

TSO being above the Black Receivers is fine. And SPCT being above SP Chakra users is fine

Black Recievers(Baseline Ability) -> Naruto (Baseline Resistance) -> TSO (Layered Power Null) -> Six Paths Chakra Users (Layered Power Null Resistance) -> SPCT (2 Layered Power Null)

k

This just looks like regular resistance ngl

You would need to prove the Outer Chains can ignore your ability to interact with NPI on that level for it to be a layered hax.

i dont think there is anyway i can do that

In short, I think these chains are fine.

• Sealing: Edo Tensei Binding(Baseline Sealing) -> Edo Madara(Baseline Sealing Resistance) -> GoTGG(1 Layered Sealing) -> Alive Madara (1 Layer of Sealing Resistance) -> Magnet Release Rasengan (2 Layers of Sealing) -> Kaguya (2 Layers of Sealing Resistance) -> SPCT (3 Layers of Sealing: this one could be explained bc of SPCT's Power Null and Class Z LS rather than just sealing that ignores sealing resistance to sealing so it might be charitable tbh)
• Power Null: Black Recievers(Baseline Power Null) -> Naruto (Baseline Power Null Resistance) -> TSO (Layered Power Null) -> Six Paths Chakra Users (Layered Power Null Resistance) -> SPCT (2 Layered Power Null)

The Paralysis Inducement could be, but ehh I'm not sure, maybe someone on staff more knowledgeable about layered hax as far as PI could explain how that works. ig I'm Neutral for now.

The other stuff I don't really agree with for my prior listed reasons.

i'll fix all the resistance parts

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Another thing worth adding is that maybe you can use this scan to get layered info analysis for the Dojutsu required to read the Uchiha Stone Tablet if thats even a thing lol

the Tablet can't be read without higher and higher Occular prowess.

MS would get 1 layer while Rinnegan would have 2.

Fits with this

Automatic Translation

Automatic Translation is the ability to understand and utilize verbal or non-verbal communication without any prior knowledge of the language. Some characters with this ability are limited in some way, such as only translating verbal communication or text. While others can translate virtually...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I think this would just show all ninja have some level of ESP which is consistent. I don't take this to be an antifeat.

guess I'll add these lol

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Bump

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I have read and accept

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I don't quite understand this layer. Can someone explain it to me?

Outer Path Chains > Black Recivers

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

I don't quite understand this layer. Can someone explain it to me?

Recently it was accepted that black Receivers can power null abilities. Jins and their tailed beast are resistant to black receivers and their power nulling effects but the outer path chains can still nullify their tailed beast cloaks even though they are resistant to black receivers power null

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Bump

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Bump

 

[DavidTPPM]

Why exactly are black receivers power null? Especially in the same way as outer path chains. Speaking of which, why are outer path chains the same type of power null as TSO?

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Why exactly are black receivers power null?

Make Konoha great again (ability addition)

Naruto: Kakuzu: Inorganic Physiology (Type 1; Kakuzu's body except his heart is made of threads as completely shown here) Juubidara & Kaguya: Immortality (Type 1; after gaining Shinju, Juubidara was able to live forever) Black Zetsu: Inorganic Physiology (Type 1; Black Zetsu hasn't any...

vsbattles.com

Especially in the same way as outer path chains. Speaking of which, why are outer path chains the same type of power null as TSO?

Uhhh could you explain this part

 

[DavidTPPM]

Make Konoha great again (ability addition)

Naruto: Kakuzu: Inorganic Physiology (Type 1; Kakuzu's body except his heart is made of threads as completely shown here) Juubidara & Kaguya: Immortality (Type 1; after gaining Shinju, Juubidara was able to live forever) Black Zetsu: Inorganic Physiology (Type 1; Black Zetsu hasn't any...

vsbattles.com

That's kinda cheeks ngl. Probably just a question of time until it gets removed but sure, whatever.

Uhhh could you explain this part

Power null doesn't have different types like idk, Concept Manip, AE, or immortality. BUT, as the page says, it can be achieved in different ways.

For example Pain can nullify ninjutsu by absorbing them, Isshiki can nullify ninjutsu by shrinking them, and SPCT can nullify people's power by sealing them away. These are 3 completely different mechanics that all count as power nullification.

And I don't really see how the mechanic of TSO, rinnegan rods, and outer path chains really resembles each other. TSO is mostly shown erasing and nullifying ninjutsu while the chains are as far as I can tell only shown suppressing your power directly, more so stopping you from using a ninjutsu rather than nullifying it upon contact

 

[Kaydee1648]

I don’t agree that Limbo should be a layer into invisibility.
It’s a sense range issue

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Power null doesn't have different types like idk, Concept Manip, AE, or immortality. BUT, as the page says, it can be achieved in different ways.

It is consistent given how Naruto is able destroy them using rasengan without it being nullified

For example Pain can nullify ninjutsu by absorbing them, Isshiki can nullify ninjutsu by shrinking them, and SPCT can nullify people's power by sealing them away. These are 3 completely different mechanics that all count as power nullification.

Gotcha

And I don't really see how the mechanic of TSO, rinnegan rods, and outer path chains really resembles each other. TSO is mostly shown erasing and nullifying ninjutsu while the chains are as far as I can tell only shown suppressing your power directly, more so stopping you from using a ninjutsu rather than nullifying it upon contact

The chains and black receivers are outer path techniques and hence should be using Yin-Yang Release to be able to power null abilities just like TSO. This can be further supported by the fact that TSO can be fashioned into black receivers (BR).

They are all applications of Yin-Yang Release unlike Pains Shinra Tensei which is just repel. The chains are able to nullify the cloaks of tailed beast by having direct contact with them and BR is able to nullify abilities by having direct contact as well as TSO. BR could have done the same if all the tailed beast and the Jins weren’t resistant to them

I don’t agree that Limbo should be a layer into invisibility.
It’s a sense range issue

it’s still invisibility. It’s just that the way that is achieved is by spatial means, the data book also highlights the invisibility of the technique

 

[Kaydee1648]

it’s still invisibility. It’s just that the way that is achieved is by spatial means, the data book also highlights the invisibility of the technique

Then if the means is different, it isn’t a layer.

 

[DavidTPPM]

It is consistent given how Naruto is able destroy them using rasengan without it being nullified

But have they ever nullified any ninjutsu? I mean actually nullify not physically clash with.

The chains and black receivers are outer path techniques and hence should be using Yin-Yang Release to be able to power null abilities just like TSO.

Are they tho? As far as I'm aware the chains were never given an element and even if so, that would pose a it's own problem.
Because if the powernull comes strictly from the yinyang nature then there should be no difference between TSOs and BRs/OPC nullification. If it doesn't then there's no basis for the power null being similar in mechanism.

This can be further supported by the fact that TSO can be fashioned into black receivers (BR).

I mean, is it? TSO is a black ball that can change shape, it changing to a black stick isn't super surprising regardless of its abilities.

They are all applications of Yin-Yang Release

Are they?

unlike Pains Shinra Tensei which is just repel. The chains are able to nullify the cloaks of tailed beast by having direct contact with them and BR is able to nullify abilities by having direct contact as well as TSO. BR could have done the same if all the tailed beast and the Jins weren’t resistant to them

But they don't seem to nullify them the same way. The way the chains work seems more akin to power sealing, being described as "bottling up" the bijuus power. It restrains and binds the power of a person who's in contact with them. They're never shown nullifying any ninjutsu in the same way TSO do.

I mean just look at the edo tensei. When a TSO negates it, the regeneration gets stopped. But when a black receiver pierces it, the edo can just regenerate without issues.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Then if the means is different, it isn’t a layer.

I dont think that the means being different disqualifies it from being a layer. Anyways, the limbo clones are capable to still interect wth the nard world when ever they want. We aslo have characters saying explicitly that their is something invisible defending madara or hitting them, furthermore obito is also sending his body parts to his kamui dimension but is still visible to everyone

But have they ever nullified any ninjutsu? I mean actually nullify not physically clash with.

the did nullfy sasuke ninjutsu which does not have form so, yes they did without physicaly clashing into them

Are they tho? As far as I'm aware the chains were never given an element and even if so, that would pose a it's own problem.
Because if the powernull comes strictly from the yinyang nature then there should be no difference between TSOs and BRs/OPC nullification. If it doesn't then there's no basis for the power null being similar in mechanism.

I was going off the notion that they are outer path techniques used by the rinnegan, so they should posses Yin-Yang release. But conceed on this, their isnt any real way i can tie their nullifing capabilities to Yin-Yang release

I mean, is it? TSO is a black ball that can change shape, it changing to a black stick isn't super surprising regardless of its abilities.

i guess

But they don't seem to nullify them the same way. The way the chains work seems more akin to power sealing, being described as "bottling up" the bijuus power. It restrains and binds the power of a person who's in contact with them. They're never shown nullifying any ninjutsu in the same way TSO do.

He is still turning them from thier tailed beast form to tailed beast cloak form. he isnt doing this by absorbing their chakra like Wood Style or sesling them like what jiriaya did to naruto. The chains forces them to go down stage by stage unlike sealing or absorbing that just direcetly cut them of their tailed beast chakra

I mean just look at the edo tensei. When a TSO negates it, the regeneration gets stopped. But when a black receiver pierces it, the edo can just regenerate without issues.

Regeneration negation and EE soul

 

[DavidTPPM]

the did nullfy sasuke ninjutsu which does not have form so, yes they did without physicaly clashing into them

When? The only scan I could find is the rods blocking Sasukes amaterasu arrow which is in no way nullification.

He is still turning them from thier tailed beast form to tailed beast cloak form.

Yes but that's because he's suppressing their bijuu powers not because he's nullifying their ninjutsu.

Like Guy says, he's "bottling up the bijuus power".

The chains forces them to go down stage by stage unlike sealing or absorbing that just direcetly cut them of their tailed beast chakra

How is that not basically identical to sealing? He's not nullifying their ability, he's restraining/binding/bottling up their bijuu chakra.

Regeneration negation and EE soul

I mean jokes aside if the rods did have power null they should automatically have regen negation towards edo tensei so it not having that is kinda contradictory

 

[karo_senpaii]

I mean just look at the edo tensei. When a TSO negates it, the regeneration gets stopped. But when a black receiver pierces it, the edo can just regenerate without issues.

Didn't madara rods prevent tobirama from regenerating? And hashirama too?

 

[Testarossa002]

Jins and their tailed beast are resistant to black receivers and their power nulling effects

are they really resistant to it?

 

[Kaydee1648]

I dont think that the means being different disqualifies it from being a layer.

In this case it does. The invisibility in this context isn’t conventional. It’s via his clones existing in another dimension entirely. that’s also why people can’t see shit, because they are not on the same world. This is the main reason 6 paths character are given Interdimensional range with senses.

obito is also sending his body parts to his kamui dimension but is still visible to everyone

I’m pretty sure the part of Obito’s body that gets sent to the Kamui world seizes to exist in the Ninja world upon contact. We just can’t see it because something is within the particular position of his body at that moment.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Didn't madara rods prevent tobirama from regenerating? And hashirama too?

No, they paralyzed Hashirama and Tobirama because they pierce pressure points which stops you from kneading chakra.

The moment they were removed Hashirama and Tobirama regenerated back, unlike TSO

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

When? The only scan I could find is the rods blocking Sasukes amaterasu arrow which is in no way nullification.

his arrows are made of flames, so thier is no physical aspect to sasuke's attack.

Yes but that's because he's suppressing their bijuu powers not because he's nullifying their ninjutsu.

Like Guy says, he's "bottling up the bijuus power".

His surppressing their powers by nullifing them into a certain state which was from tailed beast to thier cloak versions.

How is that not basically identical to sealing? He's not nullifying their ability, he's restraining/binding/bottling up their bijuu chakra.

because if it was then it would have been explicitly stated to be sealing. His bottling thier power and nullifing ther already exsisting state to a lesser state from a fully transformed tailed beast state which should not be possible to do even with Hashirama's wood style. This is shown by how yamato said he could not turn 8 tails cloak naruto back to just regular naruto, even jiraiya sealing wouldn't work but the chains can do that easily

I mean jokes aside if the rods did have power null they should automatically have regen negation towards edo tensei so it not having that is kinda contradictory

i guess

In this case it does. The invisibility in this context isn’t conventional. It’s via his clones existing in another dimension entirely. that’s also why people can’t see shit, because they are not on the same world. This is the main reason 6 paths character are given Interdimensional range with senses.

I’m pretty sure the part of Obito’s body that gets sent to the Kamui world seizes to exist in the Ninja world upon contact. We just can’t see it because something is within the particular position of his body at that moment.

i see what your saying, I'll remove it then

are they really resistant to it?

Yea thats what the wiki accepts