Naruto War Arc intelligence adjustments

[HelloThere1089]

None of the stuff mentioned in the general intelligence section is impressive from real world standards of reasoning and strategy. Only thing impressive is his chakra control which can't really be scaled to real world geniuses.

Read again next time.
Also literally read the last line of the picture you sent.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Right. So sexy jutsu and using shadow clones to learn harem jutsu is above real world genius in terms of creativity? Again stick to the standard. The genius rating specifically states "real-world genius".

As a note, Genius can still apply if there is some "science" behind a system that a person can study. Like in a universe where alchemy is real and does work, a character can get a Genius rating if they have a PHD in alchemy and have notable intellectual progress in that field. By the same nature, if there's a scientific side of Naruto (like the study of Chakra), you can get a genius rating. If its just varying degrees of martial art and instinct, then yeah, it's not going to count.

 

[HelloThere1089]

As a note, Genius can still apply if there is some "science" behind a system that a person can study. Like in a universe where alchemy is real and does work, a character can get a Genius rating if they have a PHD in alchemy and have notable intellectual progress in that field. By the same nature, if there's a scientific side of Naruto (like the study of Chakra), you can get a genius rating. If its just varying degrees of martial art and instinct, then yeah, it's not going to count.

Yeah, I was talking about combat skill. Characters like Amado and Orochimaru are obviously going to qualify for genius or higher. I agree.

 

[HelloThere1089]

As a note, Genius can still apply if there is some "science" behind a system that a person can study. Like in a universe where alchemy is real and does work, a character can get a Genius rating if they have a PHD in alchemy and have notable intellectual progress in that field. By the same nature, if there's a scientific side of Naruto (like the study of Chakra), you can get a genius rating. If its just varying degrees of martial art and instinct, then yeah, it's not going to count.

Did you find anything for Naruto that would qualify him for a genius general intel rating?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Did you find anything for Naruto that would qualify him for a genius general intel rating?

Other than like Sage mystical knowledge, Gifted with AD would probably explain the majority of his showings in my view. Sorta like how Ichigo is Gifted with Genius Combat skill

 

[HelloThere1089]

Other than like Sage mystical knowledge, Gifted with AD would probably explain the majority of his showings in my view. Sorta like how Ichigo is Gifted with Genius Combat skill

I agree. However, since combat skill does not get a rating anymore, how do you suggest we give him a rating? I think gifted normally, X (genius or EG) with Chakra control and manipulation is best since one can argue chakra control and manip can be used outside of combat.

 

[Kaydee1648]

I agree. However, since combat skill does not get a rating anymore, how do you suggest we give him a rating? I think gifted normally, X (genius or EG) with Chakra control and manipulation is best since one can argue chakra control and manip can be used outside of combat.

You're proposing something not inclusive in the OP, just create a separate thread instead of cladding this with arguments on what’s not being proposed but what’s already been accepted.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Yeah you're right. But it'll be a while. Let's hope I find some time.

 

[Syncornize]

I agree. However, since combat skill does not get a rating anymore, how do you suggest we give him a rating? I think gifted normally, X (genius or EG) with Chakra control and manipulation is best since one can argue chakra control and manip can be used outside of combat.

In fact, if you look at my other messages, I said that I separated them to make reading and visibility easier, also because it was convenient for me while collecting the data. The rating is unique; I just made a list of all the feats I considered good.
Anyway, neither of you took into account the coordination feat, which, to be honest, is definitely good overall.

 

[HelloThere1089]

In fact, if you look at my other messages, I said that I separated them to make reading and visibility easier, also because it was convenient for me while collecting the data. The rating is unique; I just made a list of all the feats I considered good.

Which separation are you talking about?

Anyway, neither of you took into account the coordination feat, which, to be honest, is definitely good overall.

It is a good combat skill. Idk how to rate it tho. Combat skills aren't rated, not because they aren't impressive, but because they are hard to categorize. In any case ignore the rating I proposed because it'll require a separate thread.

 

[Syncornize]

Which separation are you talking about?

in the sense that I considered General and Combat as if they were two different classifications.

It is a good combat skill. Idk how to rate it tho. Combat skills aren't rated, not because they aren't impressive, but because they are hard to categorize. In any case ignore the rating I proposed because it'll require a separate thread.

I agree that some standards need to be revised. I don't like the current EG, and the other tiers have some rather generic parts. Based on what they currently say, the standards cannot be evaluated as “exclusive,” but they can be added to improve the evaluation in certain fields. Adaptation covers more specific fields and is objectively not human.

 

[HelloThere1089]

in the sense that I considered General and Combat as if they were two different classifications.

Ok

some standards need to be revised

Yes. I disagree with a lot of standards. But seeing how much combat skill was debated before it lost its rating rights, I am not touching that.

 

[Golden_Void]

Here’s the thread where he got accepted as a EG

Naruto Really Smart Ig (Naruto Intelligence Rework)

Late Christmas Present for Naruto fans. Introduction: I plan on proving that Naruto should gain a separate intelligence rating through his understanding of nature, and the “tiering” of said rating should be Extraordinary Genius under our standards. Defining Terms: Before delving into the...

vsbattles.com

This will give a much more coherent explanation of his rating than I can

From that thread:

So, what this shows is that the transformation provides an incredibly expansive and deep knowledge of nature instantly to the user. It’s implied this overwhelming knowledge expands to “all creation”, a common metaphor for the world/universe. It might be assumed this statement is entirely hyperbolic and unsupported by feats. However, that assertion requires actual contradictory evidence given a consistent narrative of Naruto not only gaining an incredible scope of understanding with his sensory abilities; but also him using these newly acquired abilities instantly, and with great effectiveness. Since the veracity of this statement is mostly beholden to the supporting feats, let’s delve into them.

Naruto supposedly possesses expansive and deep knowledge of the world...

Doesn't know what nuclear fusion is (Kurama does)
Doesn't know what he did to Kakashi's eye (he just felt the vibes)
Doesn't display direct manipulation of chakra natures outside of wind on his own, despite having access to all natures (begs the tailed beasts)
Doesn't understand how he flies (stated by the databook)

He then proceeds to do incredibly impressive stem-cell surgery on Kakashi’s destroyed eye by removing a piece from his body and reconstructing it, perfectly recreating his normal eye’s appearance and visual capabilities.

This blatantly shows an incredible understanding and aptitude by Naruto about the biological body and its sources of energy after achieving this form.

This is the main point (wanked), Naruto knows nothing about stem cells, those words are never used, and he's just operating based on vibes.

So, in regard to the OP, I completely disagree with Naruto being "genius". I also disagree with how the series gets special rules to cope with Naruto having a room-temp IQ by adding how they manipulate chakra to their intelligence section, but I digress. I personally think he's average generally, with above-average intellect when it comes to chakra manipulation.

 

[karo_senpaii]

From that thread:


Naruto supposedly possesses expansive and deep knowledge of the world...

Doesn't know what nuclear fusion is (Kurama does)
Doesn't know what he did to Kakashi's eye (he just felt the vibes)
Doesn't display direct manipulation of chakra natures outside of wind on his own, despite having access to all natures (begs the tailed beasts)
Doesn't understand how he flies (stated by the databook)


This is the main point (wanked), Naruto knows nothing about stem cells, those words are never used, and he's just operating based on vibes.

So, in regard to the OP, I completely disagree with Naruto being "genius". I also disagree with how the series gets special rules to cope with Naruto having a room-temp IQ by adding how they manipulate chakra to their intelligence section, but I digress. I personally think he's average generally, with above-average intellect when it comes to chakra manipulation.

What's going on in this thread? Did nobody read the op?
You can't disagree with genius coz that's not what the op is proposing, that's something already accepted, same as his EG with chakra understanding. The op is just updating some things and proposing with it to be changed to "at least genius". If you disagree with G and EG in it's entirety then make a CRT. Stop clogging someone's thread with irrelevant points. You might end up confusing people coming to evaluate

 

[Golden_Void]

What's going on in this thread? Did nobody read the op?
You can't disagree with genius coz that's not what the op is proposing, that's something already accepted, same as his EG with chakra understanding. The op is just updating some things and proposing with it to be changed to "at least genius". If you disagree with G and EG in it's entirety then make a CRT. Stop clogging someone's thread with irrelevant points. You might end up confusing people coming to evaluate

Did you read it?

My conclusion, considering his multitasking feats and the upscaling sometimes significant against characters recognized and accepted as actual ninja geniuses on the wiki, would be to propose "AT LEAST GENIUS" for both categories. 'Extraordinary Genius' seems excessive for either section, but I'll leave the final word to you all.

OP wants to modify Pre-WA and WA Naruto, who are genius, and genius with EG chakra manipulation, respectively. OP is proposing "at least genius" for the general intelligence on both profiles, which is a semantic upgrade for both profiles' base intelligence, and a suggested downgrade for the chakra usage intelligence. I disagree with OP's stance and supporting arguments and provided counter-evidence, idk why I would need a separate CRT to do so.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Did you read it?


OP wants to modify Pre-WA and WA Naruto, who are genius, and genius with EG chakra manipulation, respectively. OP is proposing "at least genius" for the general intelligence on both profiles, which is a semantic upgrade for both profiles' base intelligence, and a suggested downgrade for the chakra usage intelligence. I disagree with OP's stance and supporting arguments and provided counter-evidence, idk why I would need a separate CRT to do so.

Actually if you could read you would have said " I disagree with further increasing his genius rating to "at least genius" and not go on to yap about things completely irrelevant to the thread by saying " I disagree with EG and G, I also disagree how he has special treatment when he clearly has room temp IQ, in my opinion he has average intelligence and above average battle Intelligence ".. This isn't your chance to cry about Naruto's intelligence rating, go to the general discussion thread.

 

[Deceived3596]

I don't see how addressing my arguments for Extraordinary Genius Naruto is countering anything here when the OP stated himself that he is explicitly not commenting on that with this thread, and has provided arguments and information that is separate from the arguments and information I provided in my thread.

When he says "both should be Genius level" he's discussing Naruto's general intelligence and combat intelligence - neither of these are about his ability to comprehend and manipulate Chakra. This is further clarified by him saying that he isn't even including Six Paths stuff since he considers it as different from the War Arc key.

 

[Golden_Void]

The point is I disagreed with the OP's reasons by using my supporting reasons, and y'all are acting like I need to make a separate CRT to disagree lol. Nobody said he has to revise the OP and an admin on this page literally stated he aligned with "gifted" more than "genius" so idk what all the crying is for.

 

[Syncornize]

Did you read it?


OP wants to modify Pre-WA and WA Naruto, who are genius, and genius with EG chakra manipulation, respectively. OP is proposing "at least genius" for the general intelligence on both profiles, which is a semantic upgrade for both profiles' base intelligence, and a suggested downgrade for the chakra usage intelligence. I disagree with OP's stance and supporting arguments and provided counter-evidence, idk why I would need a separate CRT to do so.

No, I suggested removing the Rasenshuriken part and upgrading the WA. If the upgrade doesn't work out, I'll just add the feats for the sake of completeness, keeping the same evaluation. So yes, my premise was not well understood.

 

[Syncornize]

The point is I disagreed with the OP's reasons by using my supporting reasons, and y'all are acting like I need to make a separate CRT to disagree lol. Nobody said he has to revise the OP and an admin on this page literally stated he aligned with "gifted" more than "genius" so idk what all the crying is for.

As I said in a previous message, I dont consider combat and general to be two different types of intelligence, but rather a single type, which I have diversified to make my work easier. My conclusion is that with both, it reaches that level. I expressed myself poorly on this point in the first message

 

[Syncornize]

Did you read it?


OP wants to modify Pre-WA and WA Naruto, who are genius, and genius with EG chakra manipulation, respectively. OP is proposing "at least genius" for the general intelligence on both profiles, which is a semantic upgrade for both profiles' base intelligence, and a suggested downgrade for the chakra usage intelligence. I disagree with OP's stance and supporting arguments and provided counter-evidence, idk why I would need a separate CRT to do so.

The attack on the argument was to take the individual points like the one on creativity when I only included them to demonstrate “competence” in that field, and then move on to present the following ones, showing multiple skills or types of intelligence. Not to mention that some feats are literally upscaling from characters with feats or from feats already accepted as “genius,” so yes, if you disagree, you need to make a separate CRT.


Chakra is an “academic” field or subject of study, with various levels of difficulty, so it’s evaluated differently from martial arts; I acknowledge it doesn’t have the same academic complexity as a subject like mathematics.


It’s absurd that I made 3 proposals including adding a hax and removing a feat you disagreed with and you were only able to comment on the upgrade, without even fully understanding my explanation and my stance. As I told to "Hello", there are superhuman feats such as coordination or Denmaku from multiple positions, adapting chakra to multiple people, all feats that involve processing speed, calculation speed, timing, adaptability, analysis, and intuition under stress, at the peak or beyond the human range . Many of my points in response were taken individually and not within the context.

The standards themselves literally say:

Intelligence

Intelligence is a word that is incredibly difficult to define, as it has been used to refer to many things, such as one's ability to process information, or their capacity for logic, self-awareness, creativity, reasoning, and/or problem solving, or their knowledge and memory. In its fullest...

vsbattles.fandom.com

“Should be the default intelligence category for fictional characters with exceptional or superhuman intelligence.”

I could also add the fact that Naruto found a way to decipher Jiraiya’s code when two cryptographers couldn’t figure out the key to translate it. And then people get offended if I call all this “yapping.” I have modified the conclusion so that it is clearer to everyone.

 

[Syncornize]

Other than like Sage mystical knowledge, Gifted with AD would probably explain the majority of his showings in my view. Sorta like how Ichigo is Gifted with Genius Combat skill

If, for convenience, I wanted to lower the current rating to gifted and add the listed feats for completeness, would that be feasible or would it require a separate thread? And if so, would you agree? Obviously, I would modify the premise.

This way, the thread won't get messed up, and anyone who wants to and has time can open one for rating the intelligence of the verse. In the meantime, I propose adding this, removing the topic of rasenhsuriken, and adding resistance to analytical prediction.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Downgrading to gifted definitely needs a separate thread and it would be verse wide. For now I think just changing the justifications are fine.

 

[Syncornize]

Downgrading to gifted definitely needs a separate thread and it would be verse wide. For now I think just changing the justifications are fine.

I don't understand what you mean by changing the justifications?

 

[HelloThere1089]

I don't understand what you mean by changing the justifications?

I mean changing the evidence and scans. I thought that was the point of this thread.

 

[Syncornize]

I mean changing the evidence and scans. I thought that was the point of this thread.

I'll try to explain it again, then you tell me. Since there are problems with upscaling and rating, the safe changes I wanted to make are simply to include the actual feats, that remain the same or simply feats, regardless of their tier, then I wanted to remove the rasenshuriken part because it's AD and add resistance to analytical prediction.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I'll try to explain it again, then you tell me. Since there are problems with upscaling and rating, the safe changes I wanted to make are simply to include companies that remain the same or simply feats, regardless of their tier, then I wanted to remove the rasenshuriken part because it's AD and add resistance to analytical prediction.

Yeah do all that. No need to think about gifted in this thread. Because then, whole new arguments need to be presented and you already don't have enough staff here. Also just changing Narutos intelligence won't work. A lot of characters would need changes.

 

[Qawsedf234]

would that be feasible or would it require a separate thread?

The CRT is about changing Naruto's intelligence. Altering what you want it to be changed to is fine, but all votes as stripped and need to be reconfirmed.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I am personally fine with anything. Downgrading all the shonen characters is going to be a long thankless job anyways.

 

[Syncornize]

The CRT is about changing Naruto's intelligence. Altering what you want it to be changed to is fine, but all votes as stripped and need to be reconfirmed.

Hmm, I think for convenience I'll just add these fetas while keeping the tier unchanged (genius for the Kid key), remove the feat for AD and add the hax. If you tell me what you think, I can already have a vote.

 

[Syncornize]

I am personally fine with anything. Downgrading all the shonen characters is going to be a long thankless job anyways.

Nah, I was already working on other characters. Some with additional feats and some with downgrades, some evaluations are shared or linked with other characters, so it won't take that long. (for Naruto) For the rest, it requires reworking the intelligence page

 

[HelloThere1089]

Nah, I was already working on other characters. Some with additional feats and some with downgrades, some evaluations are shared or linked with other characters, so it won't take that long.

You're working on other shonen shows? Like Bleach, Black Clover, OP etc? Because all of them mention Combat intel. That's what I am talking about. As for what you're working on, good luck.

Edit: Also by long, I meant for me, because my irl work drains me completely.

 

[Syncornize]

You're working on other shonen shows? Like Bleach, Black Clover, OP etc? Because all of them mention Combat intel. That's what I am talking about. As for what you're working on, good luck.

Edit: Also by long, I meant for me, because my irl work drains me completely.

I have started a sandbox that I am compiling over time to re-evaluate the requirements for genius and EG. Many characters evaluated as EG would be at best geiuns

 

[HelloThere1089]

I have started a sandbox that I am compiling over time to re-evaluate the requirements for genius and EG. Many characters evaluated as EG would be at best geiuns

Okay. Then you can also change the requirements for genius as well, since you disagree with the wiki definitions.

 

[Syncornize]

Bump

 

[TegamiBachi25]

There was also something Hags deliberately stated that Ashura and Indra were polar opposites. Indra was the talented genius while Ashura lacked any talent whatsoever, which was why Naruto and Sasuke were reincarnates and also mirrored them. Sasuke inherited Indra's talent while Naruto didn't get anything. Hags even stated this that Naruto inherited nothing from Minato and Kushina (minus the Uzumaki vitality). He only possessed "his body and will" (or something along the lines from the manga.)

I agree with this.