• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Satoru Gojo (The Honored One) Vs Makima (The Control Devil) (Jujutsu Kaisen Vs Chainsaw Man) [49-37-7]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well yeah, but I just explained that in my post. Dismantle travels and hits the surface of an enemy. That's the nature of it. It can't go through the entire person if it lacks the power. And he only got minor scratches while using Falling Blossom Emotion. The only domains that target insides are from techniques that already target a person's whole body/internals.
But then it wouldn't be a sure hit anymore, the slashes are sure hits, and sure hits spawns when it hits. In all case it's the surface of the body, and if a technique can affect the insides directly, it means that attacks can get to the inside of the target ignoring the innate domain, technically nothing "spawns" directly inside them, only being affected from the outside in. If so, the act of getting through the barrier without damaging the barrier itself means that innate domain arent a different dimension (or of the same level you are saying), you don't need inf range to get inside them in that case.
 
But then it wouldn't be a sure hit anymore, the slashes are sure hits, and sure hits spawns when it hits. In all case it's the surface of the body, and if a technique can affect the insides directly, it means that attacks can get to the inside of the target ignoring the innate domain, technically nothing "spawns" directly inside them, only being affected from the outside in. If so, the act of getting through the barrier without damaging the barrier itself means that innate domain arent a different dimension (or of the same level you are saying), you don't need inf range to get inside them in that case.
Hmm, I dont think mahito transfiguring ppl with touch is necessarily an anti feat. In jjk souls arent explicitly contained inside the body but more so is one with the body, so manipulating the soul through touch doesnt mean you can manipulate inside the inside of the body without "breaking through" or using a domain expansion which neutralizes other domains.
 
But then it wouldn't be a sure hit anymore, the slashes are sure hits, and sure hits spawns when it hits. In all case it's the surface of the body, and if a technique can affect the insides directly, it means that attacks can get to the inside of the target ignoring the innate domain, technically nothing "spawns" directly inside them, only being affected from the outside in. If so, the act of getting through the barrier without damaging the barrier itself means that innate domain arent a different dimension (or of the same level you are saying), you don't need inf range to get inside them in that case.
It is still a sure hit tho? The attack spawns on the surface of the enemy. Because that's the nature of the technique imbued within it. If the technique's nature is spawning in a user, or affecting them in their entirety, the domain expansion will also do that. That's a feat for those Sorcerers techniques imo.

You don't need infinite range to affect the inside of a DE, just Interdimensional range (or break the border).
 
It is still a sure hit tho? The attack spawns on the surface of the enemy. Because that's the nature of the technique imbued within it. If the technique's nature is spawning in a user, or affecting them in their entirety, the domain expansion will also do that. That's a feat for those Sorcerers techniques imo.

You don't need infinite range to affect the inside of a DE, just Interdimensional range (or break the border).
Gege might be well aware of that fact that some techniques can directly affect the inside of a sorcerer, thus the wording. All and all basing everything on Gege's quote can only give you such rating, it's not like stuff has ever been a thing that's utilized in the manga either.
Hmm, I dont think mahito transfiguring ppl with touch is necessarily an anti feat. In jjk souls arent explicitly contained inside the body but more so is one with the body, so manipulating the soul through touch doesnt mean you can manipulate inside the inside of the body without "breaking through" or using a domain expansion which neutralizes other domains.
But the body is also the body!! Wowzers (yeah, it does not make any differences)
 
Gege might be well aware of that fact that some techniques can directly affect the inside of a sorcerer, thus the wording. All and all basing everything on Gege's quote can only give you such rating, it's not like stuff has ever been a thing that's utilized in the manga either.
It was utilized with Hanami tho. He listed that as an example. Hanami can't even begin to manifest her technique in Fushiguro due to his innate domain. She has to pierce his skin to get it to work.
 
It was utilized with Hanami tho. He listed that as an example. Hanami can't even begin to manifest her technique in Fushiguro due to his innate domain. She has to pierce his skin to get it to work.
Cause she spawn plants, that's simply it. All and all, if Mahito's ability works, so does Makima's.
 
Manipulating shape of the body(soul) is different from attacking the brain which is inside the body.
 
Manipulating shape of the body(soul) is different from attacking the brain which is inside the body.
If the inside is an innate domain that requires interdimensional range to work, then the soul which is the body should also be protected and separated the same. All we know that the soul is the body, Mahito can touch any part of your body and change it meaning the whole body is the soul.
 
Cause she spawn plants, that's simply it. All and all, if Mahito's ability works, so does Makima's.
Yeah, which requires her to manifest cursed energy within them. Which is the same as manifesting any esoteric force within someone (Like TK). The only instances of domains not affecting ones insides are domains imbued with techniques that don't do that to begin with. Whereas ones that do work that way affect the user the same. That's a feat for those techniques, not an anti-feat for smth lightly established and confirmed by Gege imo. Which is consistent with statements of Domains being expansions of ones innate domain to the outside of their body.
 
If the inside is an innate domain that requires interdimensional range to work, then the soul which is the body should also be protected and separated the same. All we know that the soul is the body, Mahito can touch any part of your body and change it meaning the whole body is the soul.
Its true that the inside of the soul should be protected just as the body is, if you consider changing the shape of the soul to meddling inside the soul then it's an inconsistency. But I dont think there's reason to think that, Mahito isnt changing the essence of the soul or anything like that nor is he taking apart a physical object, he's changing the shape of an incorporeal thing.
 
Wait
Yeah, which requires her to manifest cursed energy within them. Which is the same as manifesting any esoteric force within someone (Like TK). The only instances of domains not affecting ones insides are domains imbued with techniques that don't do that to begin with. Whereas ones that do work that way affect the user the same. That's a feat for those techniques, not an anti-feat for smth lightly established and confirmed by Gege imo. Which is consistent with statements of Domains being expansions of ones innate domain to the outside of their body.
Actually, did it explicitly stated anything about innate domain? I can't find it anywhere. Could you send scans? Hanami fight I mean.
 
Its true that the inside of the soul should be protected just as the body is, if you consider changing the shape of the soul to meddling inside the soul then it's an inconsistency. But I dont think there's reason to think that, Mahito isnt changing the essence of the soul or anything like that nor is he taking apart a physical object, he's changing the shape of an incorporeal thing.
Incorporeal or not doesn't make it any more different than physical, what you're saying is a headcanon. The soul is the body and the body is the soul, that's what was stated, and Gege never cared to elaborate more on that after Mahito died.
 
Yeah good night
 
This thread manages to go to incon grace again, why am I not surprised. I don't even have the energy to go through a back and forth for multiple pages once again. So I'll just voice out my major concern with the arguments being presented.

And that concern is that everyone is now suddenly a brain surgeon talking as if they are a professional on the matter and are saying as a matter of fact that Makima's vague as hell bio hax would be able to do a number of things on Gojo. Which is ironic because I got accused of using headcannons for my arguments on Gojo's favor when the entire bio hax wincon relies on head cannons.

Literally my first point about the hax and a fact that the profiles themselves point out is that the ability is vague asf, we get no explanation or even visual as to how it works internally, they just bleed from the outside and thats it. But now everyone's saying it targets this or that, causes this or that when we dont know jack about how the ability actually works.

Its literally possible for her not to have caused any brain damage at all, or cause it to a greater extent than what Gojo has received. But now, not only has everyone unanimously accepted that it is far letha than what Gojo has endured, but also that it will somehow instantly knock Gojo unconscious??
Well, I don't think it's very productive to start theorizing the exact biological mechanism going on in a clinical context.

At best we'd be guessing, and ultimately fiction rarely follows medical standards even remotely.

Therefore, if Gojo has feats of healing serious brain damage in seconds, and otherwise has tools to put the opponent away, then I think it seems likely they will ultimately prevail.

So, for now, I will vote Gojo.
It is just like finepoint said. All the discussion surrounding biohax wincon is purely theoretical, no one here is an expert at brain science I'm pretty sure, and what I am sure of is that no one knows how the damned ability works, why? Cause we've never been given an explanation, or a visual demonstration of what it does internally.

To say that a person, who has healed brain damage 5 times, with an actual visual representation of the damage he took each time, and has been confirmed to have a better healing factor than someone who literally healed his brain getting struck by lightning, will crumble INSTANTLY against an attack that vaguely causes internal hemorrhage without ANY explanation of how it does it or what parts of the brain it actually strikes or ANYTHING for that matter is, by definition, headcannon.

You can't even fully use the darkness devil as a crutch here, since it clearly has a way different biology than regular humans. Idk why people are trying to compare what the ability did to someone with a way different biology to humans when the ability has already been used on humans. When it was used against humans it clearly didn't have effects that is too much to heal for Gojo, so instead of just assuming that the ability would have the same impact to Gojo that it had to those humans since the targets share similar biology, you guys arguing that they are actually two different abilities, or more specifically, that the two instances in which the ability was used were of different potencies, something that hasn't been stated before. Again, headcannon.

To add another layer, seems like everyone also forgot one of my main points against the bio hax in the first place. Which is that the matter of Makima using the ability is unlikely as hell. She used the general ability twice, and if we separate the two (bio hax with a point and with a stare) then she's used the point one (the one that would actually win the match) then she'd have used the ability ONCE throughout the entire series. Though even if we say they are the same move since my last argument just alluded to that, two times isn't much better.

Saying she'd start with this move in the first place, is makimg Makima extremely lucky. She has no idea about any of Gojo's kit. Makima already has prior info on the darkness devil tho to what extent is unknown, but we can assume this is at least enough to know what the DD can do in a fight (since she seemed prepared that the darkness devil was stronger than her). This means that not only has she started with the bio hax a grand total of two times, but in one of those times it was against fodder and in the other she had prior knowledge on who she's fighting. Something she doesn't have here, in fact its literally the opposite. He knows Gojo isn't fodder but also lacks any information on what Gojo's abilities are.

She has a hundred of other abilities she can utilize, abilities that she's used way more times in one match than she has used the bio hax in the entire manga yet no one is questioning the fact that she starts with it? Everyone just assumes she will?

Good luck on getting that CRT accepted too btw, considering the entire argument hinges on the idea that santa claus regenerated instantly when that is explicitly not the case.
18.jpg

And before you argue this is before her darkness form, she already commented how her wounds regenerated instantly, so the darkness devil aability should have been active here. Furthermore in her actual darkness form she was never hit meaning there's no proof of how fast she regenerates. Not to mention it could entirely be possible thaat the darkness devil regeneration and the one santa claus got are different. We already know that what ability a person gets from a contract wont be one to one with the actual devil's powers. The very first contract with the series, the zombie contract turned the yakuza into mindless zombies, and im pretty sure the zombie devil itself wasn't mindless since yknow it could talk and stuff. Its entirely possible that the darkness devil's regeneration is voluntary, or a hundred of other possibilities tht wont result in "regeneration negation".

After all, if the darkness devil really could regenerate that fast and with those injuries, he'd have better regen than Pochita, who Makima had to make a sword for to specifically nullify his regen. Pochita regenerated all of Makima's other attacks. At best Makima would have regeneration negation for the DD specifically.
 
Yeah good night
For everyone coming here, a wincon is being settled here
 
Incorporeal or not doesn't make it any more different than physical, what you're saying is a headcanon. The soul is the body and the body is the soul, that's what was stated, and Gege never cared to elaborate more on that after Mahito died.
Nothing about what I said is headcanon. Its directly stated from mahito himself that all he does is change the shape of the soul, secondly while the soul is the body you cannot act like they are the exact same thing. The soul is not physical, this is fact both in canon and on the wiki, it is considered non physical. So there's literally no reason to believe mahito altering the shape of a non physical thing means his power's influence of it extends beyond its outline. This is backed up by the fact that soul awareness in jjk seems to be based on perceiving their outlines as both sukuna and yuji's perception was stated to be based on the outline. Its perfectly possible and more reasonable to conclude that this alteration is done to the outlines.
 
Of Hanami having to do something something to affect Megumi's inside (must be clear enough that it's the result of innate domain).
She shot the seed inside of Fushiguro by using it as a projectile. Thus breaching his skin/body, thus breaking the barrier definition of his innate domain (Which Gege compared to Fushiguro breaking into Dagon's DE). I can get the scan, but you can prolly tell the scene I'm talking about. The one where a flower is growing out of Megumi?
 
She shot the seed inside of Fushiguro by using it as a projectile. Thus breaching his skin/body, thus breaking the barrier definition of his innate domain (Which Gege compared to Fushiguro breaking into Dagon's DE). I can get the scan, but you can prolly tell the scene I'm talking about. The one where a flower is growing out of Megumi?
Yeah I just saw that, but your point is that the actual relevant scan is in Gege's statement?
 
This thread manages to go to incon grace again, why am I not surprised. I don't even have the energy to go through a back and forth for multiple pages once again. So I'll just voice out my major concern with the arguments being presented.

And that concern is that everyone is now suddenly a brain surgeon talking as if they are a professional on the matter and are saying as a matter of fact that Makima's vague as hell bio hax would be able to do a number of things on Gojo. Which is ironic because I got accused of using headcannons for my arguments on Gojo's favor when the entire bio hax wincon relies on head cannons.

Literally my first point about the hax and a fact that the profiles themselves point out is that the ability is vague asf, we get no explanation or even visual as to how it works internally, they just bleed from the outside and thats it. But now everyone's saying it targets this or that, causes this or that when we dont know jack about how the ability actually works.

Its literally possible for her not to have caused any brain damage at all, or cause it to a greater extent than what Gojo has received. But now, not only has everyone unanimously accepted that it is far letha than what Gojo has endured, but also that it will somehow instantly knock Gojo unconscious??

It is just like finepoint said. All the discussion surrounding biohax wincon is purely theoretical, no one here is an expert at brain science I'm pretty sure, and what I am sure of is that no one knows how the damned ability works, why? Cause we've never been given an explanation, or a visual demonstration of what it does internally.

To say that a person, who has healed brain damage 5 times, with an actual visual representation of the damage he took each time, and has been confirmed to have a better healing factor than someone who literally healed his brain getting struck by lightning, will crumble INSTANTLY against an attack that vaguely causes internal hemorrhage without ANY explanation of how it does it or what parts of the brain it actually strikes or ANYTHING for that matter is, by definition, headcannon.

You can't even fully use the darkness devil as a crutch here, since it clearly has a way different biology than regular humans. Idk why people are trying to compare what the ability did to someone with a way different biology to humans when the ability has already been used on humans. When it was used against humans it clearly didn't have effects that is too much to heal for Gojo, so instead of just assuming that the ability would have the same impact to Gojo that it had to those humans since the targets share similar biology, you guys arguing that they are actually two different abilities, or more specifically, that the two instances in which the ability was used were of different potencies, something that hasn't been stated before. Again, headcannon.

To add another layer, seems like everyone also forgot one of my main points against the bio hax in the first place. Which is that the matter of Makima using the ability is unlikely as hell. She used the general ability twice, and if we separate the two (bio hax with a point and with a stare) then she's used the point one (the one that would actually win the match) then she'd have used the ability ONCE throughout the entire series. Though even if we say they are the same move since my last argument just alluded to that, two times isn't much better.

Saying she'd start with this move in the first place, is makimg Makima extremely lucky. She has no idea about any of Gojo's kit. Makima already has prior info on the darkness devil tho to what extent is unknown, but we can assume this is at least enough to know what the DD can do in a fight (since she seemed prepared that the darkness devil was stronger than her). This means that not only has she started with the bio hax a grand total of two times, but in one of those times it was against fodder and in the other she had prior knowledge on who she's fighting. Something she doesn't have here, in fact its literally the opposite. He knows Gojo isn't fodder but also lacks any information on what Gojo's abilities are.

She has a hundred of other abilities she can utilize, abilities that she's used way more times in one match than she has used the bio hax in the entire manga yet no one is questioning the fact that she starts with it? Everyone just assumes she will?

Good luck on getting that CRT accepted too btw, considering the entire argument hinges on the idea that santa claus regenerated instantly when that is explicitly not the case.
18.jpg

And before you argue this is before her darkness form, she already commented how her wounds regenerated instantly, so the darkness devil aability should have been active here. Furthermore in her actual darkness form she was never hit meaning there's no proof of how fast she regenerates. Not to mention it could entirely be possible thaat the darkness devil regeneration and the one santa claus got are different. We already know that what ability a person gets from a contract wont be one to one with the actual devil's powers. The very first contract with the series, the zombie contract turned the yakuza into mindless zombies, and im pretty sure the zombie devil itself wasn't mindless since yknow it could talk and stuff. Its entirely possible that the darkness devil's regeneration is voluntary, or a hundred of other possibilities tht wont result in "regeneration negation".

After all, if the darkness devil really could regenerate that fast and with those injuries, he'd have better regen than Pochita, who Makima had to make a sword for to specifically nullify his regen. Pochita regenerated all of Makima's other attacks. At best Makima would have regeneration negation for the DD specifically.
Your point about the Zombie devil not being mindless is flawed, but eh I'll reply to the rest later if I felt like it, need to get home first.
 
Yeah I just saw that, but your point is that the actual relevant scan is in Gege's statement?
Wdym by relevant? Like a statement about the innate domain? If so, yeah. Someone asked about why people don't just spawn attacks inside of people. Gege responded it was impossible due to the inside of a Sorcerer being like a Domain. Thus it needs to be broken open like what Fushiguro did to Dagon's domain for anyone to target their insides. Consistent with statements about innate domains in the manga (And how Domain Expansions are just pushing the innate domain outwards from within).

And now that I think about it, technique's like Mahito's Idle Transfiguration does have interdimensional range. We literally see him enter Sukuna's innate domain when trying to use it on Yuji (Usually a Sorcerer can't enter their Innate domain, but Sukuna lives in someone else, thus he frequents his innate domain). So yeah, that is just a fit for Mahito and all techniques that target more than just a person's surface (Such as Naoya's technique).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top