Makima vs Alastor (CSM vs HH)

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

Looking Alastor's profile, he does seem to have actually wincons now. maybe, idk someone can correct me once I make ts match.


Rules:
-Speed is Equalized
-Base Alastor is used
-Alastor has knowledge on Makima's AP with her Abilities
-Makima also is aware of Alastor's Status, and that he's basically near Unkillable (So Mind Control won't be the first move)
-Battle takes place in Osaka, Japan, with the Distance of 200 Meters for Eachother
-Both have their Optional Equipment, besides Angelic Weapons

Makima: @Arkenis, @GodEarh206, @The_Renegade_Slugger
Upscales from 550 Tons of TNT Physically, Scales to 5.5 Kilotons of TNT with Usage: 1,000 Years(which scales to 10x of her Physicals), Upscales from 128.18 Kilotons of TNT with Telekinesis
(Scales to 100/28ths of the Gun Devil's 28% Emergence)

Upscales from 2,549.918 Metric Tons

Alastor: @TheOrangeGuy09
Scales to 1.03 Kilotons of TNT
Scales to 504.86 Metric Tons, 1.00498981e+9 Kg or 1004989.8100000001 with Tentacles

Alucard: @OiEuSouDuvi, @ShionAH, @Anonymous_Learner


Advantages:
Makima: Superior AP with Telekinesis and Usage: 1,000 Years, Superior LS Physically, BFR with Helldevil and Eternity, Dollification with Doll Devil and Probably more that Im too lazy to List
Alastor: Superior AP Physically, Superior LS with Tentacles, Sealing and Soul Manip, Regen Neg and Soul Erasure with Angelic Weapons, and Probably more that im too lazy to List

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

**** accidentally uploaded it

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

God doamn it, you beat me to it
Following, this'll be fun

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Also, you giving Makima prior knowledge that Al's strong and can straight up kill her with certain weapons and she won't come back means she frame one teleports super far away and Hell BFR diffs bro
Remove Angelic weapons and her knowledge of them so TS won't happen, give her the knowledge that he's unkillable to replace it

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

Remove Angelic weapons and her knowledge of them so TS won't happen,

remove Angelic Weapons for what? Alastor's equipment, and Also remove the Prior Knowledge on it?

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

remove Angelic Weapons for what? Alastor's equipment, and Also remove the Prior Knowledge on it?

Yes, remove angelic weapons and makima's knowledge of them since they won't be used (in-character, he might not use it much anyway)
Honestly, the only thing you really need to note is that Al has prior knowledge that Makima has an attack that's so much stronger than him to make Al serious since, in this key, he wouldn't be and would likely get cooked. he has all that he needs equipment wise and can summon both his little shadow minions and fellow overlords to help out (with fodder since they aren't on his level or makima's. They're immortal as him tho so kinda useful still)

 

[Arkenis]

I see no reason why Makima will not use mind control even knowing who Alastor is. Being an overlord isn't much given Makima's already a ruler of dozens of powerful devils, Alastor's barely superior in strength here if at all given H7C Bangs, and Makima's generally only shown inferiority or inability to control devils when they're massively above her due to fear scaling or because she has an obsession like with Pochita.

Voting Makima either due to mind control or if not, then Makima just lets this play out letting everything she controls fight until something does him in.

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

Yes, remove angelic weapons and makima's knowledge of them since they won't be used (in-character, he might not use it much anyway)
Honestly, the only thing you really need to note is that Al has prior knowledge that Makima has an attack that's so much stronger than him to make Al serious since, in this key, he wouldn't be and would likely get cooked. he has all that he needs equipment wise and can summon both his little shadow minions and fellow overlords to help out (with fodder since they aren't on his level or makima's. They're immortal as him tho so kinda useful still)

done

 

[The_Renegade_Slugger]

Following

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

I see no reason why Makima will not use mind control even knowing who Alastor is. Being an overlord isn't much given Makima's already a ruler of dozens of powerful devils, Alastor's barely superior in strength here if at all given H7C Bangs, and Makima's generally only shown inferiority or inability to control devils when they're massively above her due to fear scaling or because she has an obsession like with Pochita.

Voting Makima either due to mind control or if not, then Makima just lets this play out letting everything she controls fight until something does him in.

Ok counting your vote due to your reasoning without the mind control

I do hope you check this matchup to see the other arguments later on tho

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

Alastor has resistance to mind manipulation, so I don't think Makima's control works here.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I see no reason why Makima will not use mind control even knowing who Alastor is. Being an overlord isn't much given Makima's already a ruler of dozens of powerful devils.

He's not just an Overlord, he's the STRONGEST Overlord. So strong that when news of Alastor's defeat came, the other Overlords thought Lucifer did it.

I dunno how useful Makima's minions are going to be when they're dozens of times slower than Alastor, though Ig he is really arrogant in S1

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I see no reason why Makima will not use mind control even knowing who Alastor is. Being an overlord isn't much given Makima's already a ruler of dozens of powerful devils, Alastor's barely superior in strength here if at all given H7C Bangs, and Makima's generally only shown inferiority or inability to control devils when they're massively above her due to fear scaling or because she has an obsession like with Pochita.

Voting Makima either due to mind control or if not, then Makima just lets this play out letting everything she controls fight until something does him in.

IDK man, Al has a resistance to mind manipulation so i wouldn't say it's an instant win con.
I will say though, I agree that giving Makima knowledge that he's an overlord with like zero context doesn't make Makima not go for Conquest diff

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

Alastor has resistance to mind manipulation, so I don't think Makima's control works here.

never noticed that, neat

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

I see no reason why Makima will not use mind control even knowing who Alastor is. Being an overlord isn't much given Makima's already a ruler of dozens of powerful devils, Alastor's barely superior in strength here if at all given H7C Bangs, and Makima's generally only shown inferiority or inability to control devils when they're massively above her due to fear scaling or because she has an obsession like with Pochita.

Voting Makima either due to mind control or if not, then Makima just lets this play out letting everything she controls fight until something does him in.

In that case, it could give her general knowledge of who the Radio Demon is (which most sinners know). Alastor was practically a Pochita to the Sinners when he arrived in Hell.

"Decades ago, Alastor manifested in Hell, seemingly overnight. He began to topple overlords who have been dominant for centuries. That kind of raw power had never been harnessed by a mortal soul before. Then, he broadcasted his carnage all throughout Hell, just so everyone can witness his ability. Sinners started calling him "The Radio Demon"."

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

And something very important, what is Makima's assumed regeneration/immortality for this confrontation?

High-Mid, Low-High, or Mid-High?

Edit: On second thought, this isn't that important, although it's good to know.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah al resists mind control so that wincon kinda just doesn't work here

 

[Arkenis]

He's not just an Overlord, he's the STRONGEST Overlord. So strong that when news of Alastor's defeat came, the other Overlords thought Lucifer did it.

I dunno how useful Makima's minions are going to be when they're dozens of times slower than Alastor, though Ig he is really arrogant in S1

Yeah that doesn't matter, Makima controls Angel and Angel can summon a weapon 10x stronger than her. And again being famous isn't what's needed, which is all it seems to be for Alastor.

IDK man, Al has a resistance to mind manipulation so i wouldn't say it's an instant win con.
I will say though, I agree that giving Makima knowledge that he's an overlord with like zero context doesn't make Makima not go for Conquest diff

What Makima does isn't hypnosis so I don't see how that'll be relevant resistance to Makima's control.

I do hope you check this matchup to see the other arguments later on tho

Only if this doesn't end up with me having to explain Makima will fight a certain way.

In that case, it could give her general knowledge of who the Radio Demon is (which most sinners know). Alastor was practically a Pochita to the Sinners when he arrived in Hell.

Yeah but being famous isn't why Pochita is feared or why Makima can't control him.

High-Mid, Low-High, or Mid-High?

Hopefully the highest so this isn't yet another way to nerf Makima

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

Yeah but being famous isn't why Pochita is feared or why Makima can't control him.

If Makima has doubts about his superiority against Alastor due to his fame, I think it would work. But either way, he resists.

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

Hopefully the highest so this isn't yet another way to nerf Makima

assume if I didnt specified the contract regen, assume it's the highest

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Yeah that doesn't matter, Makima controls Angel and Angel can summon a weapon 10x stronger than her. And again being famous isn't what's needed, which is all it seems to be for Alastor.

Angel didn't have that weapon prior to Makima controlling him so ???
We also currently accept that Makima had to beat Quanxi before controlling her, cause of her status. Alastor is that and more.

What Makima does isn't hypnosis so I don't see how that'll be relevant resistance to Makima's control.

You don't think Conquest is Mind Control?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah that doesn't matter, Makima controls Angel and Angel can summon a weapon 10x stronger than her. And again being famous isn't what's needed, which is all it seems to be for Alastor.

Yeah but being famous isn't why Pochita is feared or why Makima can't control him.

Being famous isnt what Alastor is at all, his rank comes from his power and his willingness to indiscriminately murder anyone who stands against him. He's not famous, he is feared.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

I dunno how useful Makima's minions are going to be when they're dozens of times slower than Alastor, though Ig he is really arrogant in S1

That wouldn't necessarily happen, I just thought that scene fit ( That's because it's Alastor Base )

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Alright, gonna try arguing for Al though
With Al having prior knowledge of Makima's strength and unique abilities, he won't play around and'll more so fight like his Weakened self (Summon his electrified tentacles to attack, get his shadow minions in to distract/swarm, using his shadows to sneak off attacks, make use of the environment, turn into a shadow to become intangible, teleport, creat giant explosions like he did with pentious while angered (which he likely will be going against an opponent capable of blowing holes in him by pointing at him), etc (Just look at his standard stratagies) while also likely summoning Niffty and Husk for help out in ridding fodder or, very likely, to be used as canon immortal fodder. makima's first move would probably Bio manipulation and, luckily for the radio demon, Hazbin Demons have a (limited) Resistence to Biological manipulaton and, even if you wanna argue that it'll work, Al has High Mid regeneration combat applicable that regenerates him instantly while also having low-godly over time so he'll be quick to heal it off and also and this goes for any other attack he'll suffer from in this battle. He also has kilometers in range. and can trap and tear apart makima's soul upon her defeat
All of this to say that I don't believe Al wins this. He's my goat, favorite Hellaverse character and the only reason I could initial stand watching the show, but Makima has Low-high Regen, an invisible attack 124.446601942x stronger than him, and hell devil BFR.
I just don't see Alastor winning this and, even in the best case scenario for him, I don't really see him having the stamina for it. Sure, he 100% has the endurance to last a gruely fight with makima but Alastor's long term stamina feat is him toppling strong overlords in a overnight...as the strongest overlord ever.
Makima just has far to many tricks up her sleeve so i'm just gonna vote for her.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

What Makima does isn't hypnosis so I don't see how that'll be relevant resistance to Makima's control.

Vox is able to control, see, feel, and manipulate the memories of those under his control... the difference with Makima's is that his has a time limit.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Yeah that doesn't matter, Makima controls Angel and Angel can summon a weapon 10x stronger than her.

I'm begrudgingly on makima's side but you do realize that angel doesn't have that weapon on his scaling, right? only makima has it with him only being able to with the reason he doesn't have 1k spear being because supports think he didn't have enough lifespans to create it with only makima having them

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

Alright, gonna try arguing for Al though
With Al having prior knowledge of Makima's strength and unique abilities, he won't play around and'll more so fight like his Weakened self (Summon his electrified tentacles to attack, get his shadow minions in to distract/swarm, using his shadows to sneak off attacks, make use of the environment, turn into a shadow to become intangible, teleport, creat giant explosions like he did with pentious while angered (which he likely will be going against an opponent capable of blowing holes in him by pointing at him), etc (Just look at his standard stratagies) while also likely summoning Niffty and Husk for help out in ridding fodder or, very likely, to be used as canon immortal fodder. makima's first move would probably Bio manipulation and, luckily for the radio demon, Hazbin Demons have a (limited) Resistence to Biological manipulaton and, even if you wanna argue that it'll work, Al has High Mid regeneration combat applicable that regenerates him instantly while also having low-godly over time so he'll be quick to heal it off and also and this goes for any other attack he'll suffer from in this battle. He also has kilometers in range. and can trap and tear apart makima's soul upon her defeat
All of this to say that I don't believe Al wins this. He's my goat, favorite Hellaverse character and the only reason I could initial stand watching the show, but Makima has Low-high Regen, an invisible attack 124.446601942x stronger than him, and hell devil BFR.
I just don't see Alastor winning this and, even in the best case scenario for him, I don't really see him having the stamina for it. Sure, he 100% has the endurance to last a gruely fight with makima but Alastor's long term stamina feat is him toppling strong overlords in a overnight...as the strongest overlord ever.
Makima just has far to many tricks up her sleeve so i'm just gonna vote for her.

wait which is the wincon you choosing?

cuz if it's the Attack speed being faster, then I don't think I can add ts, since Alsstor is the Faster one without equal speed

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

It's the middle of the night here and my phone battery is low, I'll be back in the morning, see you later!

Edit: But just to make an argument, Makima needs to deal with Alastor's pseudo-intangibility, and his ability to teleport away if needed for recovery.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

wait which is the wincon you choosing?

cuz if it's the Attack speed being faster, then I don't think I can add ts, since Alsstor is the Faster one without equal speed

I'm not arguing it's faster, i'm arguing it's invisible, stronger, and will go clearly though my goat (and, it's not like bang will be faster than her combat speed for long with the CSM speed crt whenever it goes through)
If all else fails, she teleports and does hell BFR so i'm 100% voting for makima

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I'm not arguing it's faster, i'm arguing it's invisible, stronger, and will go clearly though my goat (and, it's not like bang will be faster than her combat speed for long with the CSM speed crt whenever it goes through)
If all else fails, she teleports and does hell BFR so i'm 100% voting for makima

Alastor can both teleport himself and forcibly teleport others to him

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Alastor can both teleport himself and forcibly teleport others to him

Ik that, i just don't think he's getting it off before he get's bfr to another dimension nigh instantly (the hand doen't need to touch anyone as shown here)

also, i believe i was downplaying makima earlier as she'd wouldn't NEED to teleport away as she can just use her minions abilities herself so she'd just be able to bfr him whenever it called for it

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

also, weekly, you're back to arguing in hellaverse matchups? I haven't seen you active in them for a minute

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Alastor's long term stamina feat is him toppling strong overlords in a overnight...as the strongest overlord ever.

Not sure what you mean here. He wasnt the strongest when he got to Hell, he actively had to work his way up in power due to Rosie's contract actively suppressing his power.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

But just to make an argument, Makima needs to deal with Alastor's pseudo-intangibility

The Angel Devil weapons are noted to be able to hit intagible ghosts so she'll just summon one and fire it at al (though, due to prior knowledge given in this matchup, he'd know it could hit him and he dodge)

and his ability to teleport away if needed for recovery.

Makima can hear through birds, rats, and other lower lifeforms so she'd probably hear him if he tries hiding (where would he even go? He's in japan, not like he knows where he is)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The Angel Devil weapons are noted to be able to hit intagible ghosts so she'll just summon one and fire it at al (though, due to prior knowledge given in this matchup, he'd know it could hit him and he dodge)

I really need to finish the intangibility rework...

But those are two different types of intangibility, hitting ghosts doesnt automatically mean you can hit shadows

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Not sure what you mean here. He wasnt the strongest when he got to Hell, he actively had to work his way up in power due to Rosie's contract actively suppressing his power.

Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh?
Al didn't have to work for anything, the whole point of his deal was to secure himself and he got what he wanted and is repeatedly stated to be the strongest sinner with an unimaginable level of raw power no mortal soul had ever attained from the moment he got into hell. He was the strongest when he got there, his feat of topple the top dawg overlords overnight is not only him just beating people weaker than himself but also does nothing as a stamina feat since this probably didn't exert him any since they're weaker than him (getting weakened from adam, he went from l7c to 9a and STILL is the strongest sinner, my goat had to work for nothing)

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I really need to finish the intangibility rework...

But those are two different types of intangibility, hitting ghosts doesnt automatically mean you can hit shadows

No it doesn't and i don't even believe the argument myself but i felt i had to say it anyway.
Not that it matters too much. Al, even serious, never just stays a shadow and goes back into his tangible form which gives openings for Makima to attack him with her (currently) 56.5x faster attack speed with Bang that's also invisible

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh?
Al didn't have to work for anything, the whole point of his deal was to secure himself and he got what he wanted and is repeatedly stated to be the strongest sinner with an unimaginable level of raw power no mortal soul had ever attained from the moment he got into hell. He was the strongest when he got there, his feat of topple the top dawg overlords overnight is not only him just beating people weaker than himself but also does nothing as a stamina feat since this probably didn't exert him any since they're weaker than him (getting weakened from adam, he went from l7c to 9a and STILL is the strongest sinner, my goat had to work for nothing)

Did you...watch season 2? Its a MAJOR plot point that Rosie's contract was actively restricting him from achieving the spot as the strongest sinner in Hell. Its the whole reason why he made Charlie declare Vox the strongest, because it meant that he couldnt be the strongest and thus nullified Rosie's contract, which in turn allowed him to regain the power she was restricting.

No it doesn't and i don't even believe the argument myself but i felt i had to say it anyway. Not that it matters too much. Al, even serious, never just stays a shadow and goes back into his tangible form which gives openings for Makima to attack him with her (currently) 56.5x faster attack speed with Bang that's also invisible

Makima's attack speed is MHS, Al's reaction and combat speed is FTL.

 

[Arkenis]

I'm begrudgingly on makima's side but you do realize that angel doesn't have that weapon on his scaling, right? only makima has it with him only being able to with the reason he doesn't have 1k spear being because supports think he didn't have enough lifespans to create it with only makima having them

I could've forgotten, was it said that's why Makima can control him or something? If not, then my point is still that Angel has such an arsenal, and Makima still can control him.

Vox is able to control, see, feel, and manipulate the memories of those under his control... the difference with Makima's is that his has a time limit.

Controlling memories isn't the same as controlling someone due to superiority dependent on her own perception of them. Also Makima's forced her command on people who resisted her control so not exactly sure this loose application of mind resistance will work.

Also can I get some clarity on this: Vox's page says way more for his range of mind control. Alastor's resistance says he resisted hypnosis, is there something missing or is that the full extent of Alastor's resistance?

Being famous isnt what Alastor is at all, his rank comes from his power and his willingness to indiscriminately murder anyone who stands against him. He's not famous, he is feared.

Seems to go in hand. He's broadcasted his killings to Hell. They otherwise wouldn't have known him as much unless I'm missing more context?

If Makima has doubts about his superiority against Alastor due to his fame, I think it would work. But either way, he resists.

Gotta ask, how could she? She knows what true superiority is and even then challenged it and dealt great damage to the DD. She fought the Gun Devil, one of humanity's most feared regular devils, her sisters are literally War and Death, she controls a host of devils all with varying powers pretty casually. I just don't see how she'd ever view Alastor as superior considering what superiority is made to be in CSM and it's about humanity's fear, not just fear in general. Also, she has attacks more powerful than him that she can spam, so I don't see her doubting her superiority to him.

I just don't see Alastor winning this and, even in the best case scenario for him, I don't really see him having the stamina for it. Sure, he 100% has the endurance to last a gruely fight with makima but Alastor's long term stamina feat is him toppling strong overlords in a overnight...as the strongest overlord ever.

Was he tired after that? I'd argue he could make himself more fearful to human through his tech hax but we don't work under that sorta verse equalization.

Also can I take this to mean he's not very much of a fearful overlord any longer or is this part of the weakened state?

• Instigating Fear (His presence used to strike fear in those around him, although it does not seem to be the case anymore due to being gone for seven years. He himself reaffirms this, stating that due to Rosie forcing him to disappear for seven years, his name "inspires much less fear".)

his feat of topple the top dawg overlords overnight is not only him just beating people weaker than himself but also does nothing as a stamina feat since this probably didn't exert him any since they're weaker than him

So where do you think his stamina is then? Could he fight for days?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Seems to go in hand. He's broadcasted his killings to Hell. They otherwise wouldn't have known him as much unless I'm missing more context?

He broadcasted his killings to instill fear in people, not to make himself famous.

Hazbin's hierarchy is canonically purely power-based as per Vivziepop's word of god. Fame has nothing to do with Al's rank