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Satoru Gojo (The Honored One) Vs Makima (The Control Devil) (Jujutsu Kaisen Vs Chainsaw Man) [49-37-7]

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Catbowtie said:
I genuinely think Deku cannot lose under any circumstances without getting stomped. I don't think there's a single person in High 6-A that can survive getting blitzed for 20 minutes straight, and if they do, Deku gets stomped. There's no in between. It's nuts.
Click to expand...
Off-topic but I do have a character who has the answer for amp-based speed blitz but he unfortunately is not High 6-A
 
Speed amp level doesn't matter if you have time-based Reactive Power Level that slows down everything to your level, which slows down light-based magic, lightning, etc., and works past resistances
 
Robo432343 said:
don't you know? his name is son goku...
Click to expand...
vsbattles.com

Kaioken vs One for All (Goku vs Deku)

Post-North Kai Training Goku vs Final War Arc 100% Deku Stats Equalized (Base Goku = 100% Deku) Location: Gizard Wasteland Starting Distance: 100 meters VS Izuku Midoriya: 7 CastoriceTheFifth, Da3ggman, Catbowtie, Mapl3Sy4up, Danny33wise, Anonymous_Learner, MannyQ361 Son Goku: Inconclusive:
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Who
Click to expand...
Chakax from Warhammer. Has an artifact that pretty much universally time slows all attacks to being slow enough for him to react to and this pretty much ignores any in-game speed amps or spells that should tag him otherwise.

But I'll leave it at that, this is Makima vs Gojo lol
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Imagine if I switch votes to gojo for incon grace
Click to expand...
images
 
Acertainbcplayer said:
Let bro fight Monster Garou
Click to expand...
Can’t. It’s a mismatch and stomp.

If speed equalized, Garou can get blitzed and one shotted via better amps overtime if they both start at 42 Petatons but Deku is the slower character so this isn’t allowed

If unequalized speed, Garou just stomps in the first second.
 
Who tf voted for Deku

Anyways Gojo FRA mostly cause it’s a battle of “who can one shot the other first” and I feel like even if Gojo gets hit with bio manip he could take at least one or two and still have enough AP to fully one shot.
 
AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
You able to quote it cause honestly I ain’t looking back through the thread
Click to expand...

GunshyFever said:
Alright, I'm going to be the one to write Makima's win cons. Feel free to respond however you like or debunk them, since there's a chance I may or may not be active in this thread. I'll go through this bit by bit.

Important note - Makima can also use the abilities of those under her influence, whether they are alive or deceased, even if the abilities originate from devils they had contracts with. Meaning once she takes control of a devil, she can use that devil’s abilities as her own, even after their death, as shown in the scans above. (This is one her profile) So please keep this in mind for the takes below.​


Makima's wincons​

1) Biological Manipulation -

Makima can mess with Gojo's internal organs, including critical ones like the brain. This can severely disrupt his ability to use RCT, focus during battle and formulate strategies, causing him to underperform and not fight at his full potential. This ability is rarely used a, but given that she's aware of Gojo’s threat level, it’s more likely she'll use the stronger version of this technique, a focused point attack.

Just to clarify: this is not accepted as "Bang," and in general, it should not be confused with "Bang." Now, this ability spontaneously explodes or severely disrupts the target's internal organs from the inside out. In the Chainsaw Man universe, it was powerful enough to harm the Darkness Devil, a Primal Fear. That alone implies Gojo is in serious danger if he gets hit by this, potentially resulting in instant death or at least incapacitation.

Makima tends to reserve this technique for powerful opponents like Primal Fears, as seen in her fight against the Darkness Devil, where it hindered him significantly. It's a real possibility that Gojo's high status would prompt Makima to use this win con to kill him or push him to the brink of death and utilize her Conquest. And no, Gojo "refreshing his mind" won’t help. Makima’s Conquest is supernatural and not tied to the brain in specific, it cannot be nullified by simply refreshing his brain with RCT and character's like Reze have done the same where they explode their brains, but still remain under the influence of Conquest.

2) BFR (Hell Devil ver) -

The Hell Devil does not require physical contact to remove opponents from the battlefield, which makes it especially useful. Simply removing Gojo bypasses the problem of Infinity, turning the obstacle and its source into a single issue that can be quickly resolved. Makima can achieve this by either forcing her Conquest ability onto the Hell Devil to make it do her bidding, as she typically does or by sacrificing multiple Devil Hunters, with the latter being the more reliable method.

This ability has a moderate chance of being used. Once Makima realizes she can’t harm Gojo with her primary attacks, such as "Bang," which is generally accepted as a form of telekinetic force, she may opt to remove the problem entirely by summoning the Hell Devil to drag Gojo into Hell, effectively neutralizing him.

2.1) BFR (Hell Devil + Princi) -

To make the ability execute more smoothly and efficiently, Makima can send Princi to Hell and order her to summon Gojo through one of her zippers. This makes the BFR far safer and more effective, minimizing the risk of pressured or tampered by Gojo.

2.2) BFR (Eternity Devil) -

This strategy is essentially a more refined version of the Prison Realm, think of it as Prison Realm 2.0 with bug fixes. All Makima needs to do is lure Gojo into a structure, such as a building or other infrastructure. She can do this using her animal manipulation abilities. Through lower lifeforms like a pack of rats, she can travel between locations and use them as mediums to lure Gojo into a chosen spot.

Once Gojo enters the targeted location, Makima can set up a trap using the Eternity Devil. She can then escape via her interdimensional travel while Gojo becomes trapped in a space similar to the Prison Realm, where he can be left to die. Notably, Makima can also prevent the Eternity Devil from revealing itself, as seen in the aquarium arc.

This ability has a moderate chance of being used, roughly on par with the Hell Devil tactic. If Makima realizes she can't deal with Gojo’s Infinity directly, she’s likely to lean into her versatility in her controlled abilities to remove him from the fight altogether.

3) Organic Manipulation -

This ability allows Makima, after drawing blood from her hand, to grow a mold inside Gojo's body, one that cannot be healed or regenerated. This serves as either an instant win con or a massive hindrance to Gojo’s focus, physical condition and overall performance.

Makima can also use this ability more creatively by directing her minions through this devil to grow mold in Gojo’s body from multiple angles, overwhelming him. This coordinated internal assault would ultimately result in Gojo’s death.

The likelihood of this ability being used is comparable to her other options for the same reason.

4) Cosmo -

Makima can give Gojo a taste of an All-Out Halloween, which, depending on the range, can either momentarily or permanently incapacitate him. If Gojo gets up close and personal with Makima, a single Halloween may be enough to affect him, albeit with reduced likely reduced effect. At longer range, the ability requires more time to charge, but guarantees total and permanent incapacitation, hence the term All-Out Halloween.

Unlike Makima’s other abilities, where she can creatively employ various minions through contracts, this technique is unique. It is solely exceptional to Cosmo and Makima, as it cannot be accessed through a standard devil contract. The change of it being used is the same as the others. Morso as a final rebound if needed.

Makima's Advanatges​

1) Reactions & Perception Advantage -
With speed equalization, the rules explicitly state:

Makima's combat speed is High Hypersonic+ (Mach 81.48), while her reaction speed scales massively above Massively Hypersonic+ (Mach 1390.67). Gojo's combat and reaction speed is listed at Mach 2.86.

This makes her reaction speeds alone 17x faster than Gojo's. So even under speed equalization, Makima's reaction speed is scaled down by the same multiplier as her combat speed.

Plus, Makima's Automatic Precognition, which allows her to see a few seconds into the future, grants her a tactical advantage. Not only can she predict Gojo’s next moves and react accordingly, but she can also perceive his actions before he even performs them, turning him into an open book.

2) Tactical Approach & Clairvoyance -
As stated on her profile:

In short, once Makima becomes aware of Gojo's status and realizes that controlling him directly isn’t viable, she will work from the shadows to analyze him and gauge the scope of his abilities. She’ll rely on her minions to observe strength and capabilities. Makima is an exceptionally quick and perceptive thinker whom is capable of formulating strategies and improvising with her powers in real time, as demonstrated during her fight with the Gun Devil.

And before anyone says anything: no, she did not prepare for that fight. There was no pre-battle planning for the initial takedown of the Gun Devil. What was actually prepared was the plan for Aki to become the vessel, having the Gun Devil’s corpse placed in his body and sent straight to Denji’s front door. That was orchestrated, not the battle itself.

So, once Makima has a solid understanding of Gojo’s mechanics, she will return to the battlefield and actively pursue him using her wide arsenal of options.

Also worth noting: Makima can read minds.
As stated on her profile:

She can eventually figure Gojo out, his abilities, how they work all through his own memories.

3) Enhanced Senses -
As stated on her profile:

With this, it’s clear that Makima effectively has all eyes on Gojo, constantly aware of his location and actions, whether through her own awareness or via her controlled minions. This constant surveillance allows her to anticipate and counter Gojo's strategies in real time.

Makima's Resistances​

1) Infinite Void -
As her profile states:

Prop's for resisting a stronger infinite void.

Conclusion​

Everything above outlines the various ways Makima can achieve victory. You're free to respond or debate these points using Gojo's abilities and showings, but based on the information provided, it's clear to me that Makima holds the tactical advantage, along with a versatile range of win cons and controlled abilities as well as a perception advantage.

For these reasons, I'm casting my vote for Makima.
Click to expand...
Here
 
Since people will likely not be reading 12 pages of yap just to vote. The summary is that:
Makima's main wincon is biological manipulation, which could kill Gojo.
Gojo's wincon is just about anything in his arsenal. HP, Red, Max blue, Base blue as all of it will one shot Makima.

Makima would land her attack first because of her superior reaction speed and precognition but Gojo could survive her attack for a few seconds, Red and blue would instantly kill Makima however.
There's also the factor of if Makima would even start with the Bio hax in the first place. I say it isn't likely, Gunshy says otherwise. Our reasonings are above
 
Razor said:
Since people will likely not be reading 12 pages of yap just to vote. The summary is that:
Makima's main wincon is biological manipulation, which could kill Gojo.
Gojo's wincon is just about anything in his arsenal. HP, Red, Max blue, Base blue as all of it will one shot Makima.

Makima would land her attack first because of her superior reaction speed and precognition but Gojo could survive her attack for a few seconds, Red and blue would instantly kill Makima however.
There's also the factor of if Makima would even start with the Bio hax in the first place. I say it isn't likely, Gunshy says otherwise. Our reasonings are above
Click to expand...
You could just bump the 2 wincon posts
 
Razor said:
Gunshy and I went back and forth over his wincon list. My summary went over the conclusion to that back and forth
Click to expand...
Why is Makima’s wincon in your summary reduced to one when Gunshy is still bumping the page 2 Makima win con list post in page 10
 
GunshyFever said:
Should be everything for Makimas side.

Just realized Castorice did it for me already.
Click to expand...
GunshyFever said:
Alright, I'm going to be the one to write Makima's win cons. Feel free to respond however you like or debunk them, since there's a chance I may or may not be active in this thread. I'll go through this bit by bit.

Important note - Makima can also use the abilities of those under her influence, whether they are alive or deceased, even if the abilities originate from devils they had contracts with. Meaning once she takes control of a devil, she can use that devil’s abilities as her own, even after their death, as shown in the scans above. (This is one her profile) So please keep this in mind for the takes below.​


Makima's wincons​

1) Biological Manipulation -

Makima can mess with Gojo's internal organs, including critical ones like the brain. This can severely disrupt his ability to use RCT, focus during battle and formulate strategies, causing him to underperform and not fight at his full potential. This ability is rarely used a, but given that she's aware of Gojo’s threat level, it’s more likely she'll use the stronger version of this technique, a focused point attack.

Just to clarify: this is not accepted as "Bang," and in general, it should not be confused with "Bang." Now, this ability spontaneously explodes or severely disrupts the target's internal organs from the inside out. In the Chainsaw Man universe, it was powerful enough to harm the Darkness Devil, a Primal Fear. That alone implies Gojo is in serious danger if he gets hit by this, potentially resulting in instant death or at least incapacitation.

Makima tends to reserve this technique for powerful opponents like Primal Fears, as seen in her fight against the Darkness Devil, where it hindered him significantly. It's a real possibility that Gojo's high status would prompt Makima to use this win con to kill him or push him to the brink of death and utilize her Conquest. And no, Gojo "refreshing his mind" won’t help. Makima’s Conquest is supernatural and not tied to the brain in specific, it cannot be nullified by simply refreshing his brain with RCT and character's like Reze have done the same where they explode their brains, but still remain under the influence of Conquest.

2) BFR (Hell Devil ver) -

The Hell Devil does not require physical contact to remove opponents from the battlefield, which makes it especially useful. Simply removing Gojo bypasses the problem of Infinity, turning the obstacle and its source into a single issue that can be quickly resolved. Makima can achieve this by either forcing her Conquest ability onto the Hell Devil to make it do her bidding, as she typically does or by sacrificing multiple Devil Hunters, with the latter being the more reliable method.

This ability has a moderate chance of being used. Once Makima realizes she can’t harm Gojo with her primary attacks, such as "Bang," which is generally accepted as a form of telekinetic force, she may opt to remove the problem entirely by summoning the Hell Devil to drag Gojo into Hell, effectively neutralizing him.

2.1) BFR (Hell Devil + Princi) -

To make the ability execute more smoothly and efficiently, Makima can send Princi to Hell and order her to summon Gojo through one of her zippers. This makes the BFR far safer and more effective, minimizing the risk of pressured or tampered by Gojo.

2.2) BFR (Eternity Devil) -

This strategy is essentially a more refined version of the Prison Realm, think of it as Prison Realm 2.0 with bug fixes. All Makima needs to do is lure Gojo into a structure, such as a building or other infrastructure. She can do this using her animal manipulation abilities. Through lower lifeforms like a pack of rats, she can travel between locations and use them as mediums to lure Gojo into a chosen spot.

Once Gojo enters the targeted location, Makima can set up a trap using the Eternity Devil. She can then escape via her interdimensional travel while Gojo becomes trapped in a space similar to the Prison Realm, where he can be left to die. Notably, Makima can also prevent the Eternity Devil from revealing itself, as seen in the aquarium arc.

This ability has a moderate chance of being used, roughly on par with the Hell Devil tactic. If Makima realizes she can't deal with Gojo’s Infinity directly, she’s likely to lean into her versatility in her controlled abilities to remove him from the fight altogether.

3) Organic Manipulation -

This ability allows Makima, after drawing blood from her hand, to grow a mold inside Gojo's body, one that cannot be healed or regenerated. This serves as either an instant win con or a massive hindrance to Gojo’s focus, physical condition and overall performance.

Makima can also use this ability more creatively by directing her minions through this devil to grow mold in Gojo’s body from multiple angles, overwhelming him. This coordinated internal assault would ultimately result in Gojo’s death.

The likelihood of this ability being used is comparable to her other options for the same reason.

4) Cosmo -

Makima can give Gojo a taste of an All-Out Halloween, which, depending on the range, can either momentarily or permanently incapacitate him. If Gojo gets up close and personal with Makima, a single Halloween may be enough to affect him, albeit with reduced likely reduced effect. At longer range, the ability requires more time to charge, but guarantees total and permanent incapacitation, hence the term All-Out Halloween.

Unlike Makima’s other abilities, where she can creatively employ various minions through contracts, this technique is unique. It is solely exceptional to Cosmo and Makima, as it cannot be accessed through a standard devil contract. The change of it being used is the same as the others. Morso as a final rebound if needed.

Makima's Advanatges​

1) Reactions & Perception Advantage -
With speed equalization, the rules explicitly state:

Makima's combat speed is High Hypersonic+ (Mach 81.48), while her reaction speed scales massively above Massively Hypersonic+ (Mach 1390.67). Gojo's combat and reaction speed is listed at Mach 2.86.

This makes her reaction speeds alone 17x faster than Gojo's. So even under speed equalization, Makima's reaction speed is scaled down by the same multiplier as her combat speed.

Plus, Makima's Automatic Precognition, which allows her to see a few seconds into the future, grants her a tactical advantage. Not only can she predict Gojo’s next moves and react accordingly, but she can also perceive his actions before he even performs them, turning him into an open book.

2) Tactical Approach & Clairvoyance -
As stated on her profile:

In short, once Makima becomes aware of Gojo's status and realizes that controlling him directly isn’t viable, she will work from the shadows to analyze him and gauge the scope of his abilities. She’ll rely on her minions to observe strength and capabilities. Makima is an exceptionally quick and perceptive thinker whom is capable of formulating strategies and improvising with her powers in real time, as demonstrated during her fight with the Gun Devil.

And before anyone says anything: no, she did not prepare for that fight. There was no pre-battle planning for the initial takedown of the Gun Devil. What was actually prepared was the plan for Aki to become the vessel, having the Gun Devil’s corpse placed in his body and sent straight to Denji’s front door. That was orchestrated, not the battle itself.

So, once Makima has a solid understanding of Gojo’s mechanics, she will return to the battlefield and actively pursue him using her wide arsenal of options.

Also worth noting: Makima can read minds.
As stated on her profile:

She can eventually figure Gojo out, his abilities, how they work all through his own memories.

3) Enhanced Senses -
As stated on her profile:

With this, it’s clear that Makima effectively has all eyes on Gojo, constantly aware of his location and actions, whether through her own awareness or via her controlled minions. This constant surveillance allows her to anticipate and counter Gojo's strategies in real time.

Makima's Resistances​

1) Infinite Void -
As her profile states:

Prop's for resisting a stronger infinite void.

Conclusion​

Everything above outlines the various ways Makima can achieve victory. You're free to respond or debate these points using Gojo's abilities and showings, but based on the information provided, it's clear to me that Makima holds the tactical advantage, along with a versatile range of win cons and controlled abilities as well as a perception advantage.

For these reasons, I'm casting my vote for Makima.
Click to expand...
Here
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Why is Makima’s wincon in your summary reduced to one when Gunshy is still bumping the page 2 Makima win con list post in page 10
Click to expand...
Cause bio hax is her main wincon. BFR's too slow (Both for the hell devil and the eternity devil), Mold is even slower that, And Makima dies after she utters Halloween once. For the full extent of Cosmo's ability to work she has to charge it up like a Kamehameha, its not working here. That's why the bio hax point stayed and the rest didn't get talked about after that.

I even mentioned the western standoff analogy where Makima only has 1 bullet (Bio hax), nobody contested it by saying "No, Makima has more bullets". The argument against it was that Makima would shoot first.
 
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