Either it's extremely poorly explained on the profile or some staff made what I see as some very questionable decisions. To me it's seeming to be the latter due to a lack of proper scans equating stuff like life and death = existence and nonexistence.
I will admit, it's partly my own fault as well. I did make a mistake (quite a few of them, with the earlier profiles for PGR) and that's because I was unfamiliar with the editing rules and stuff so it's definitely mostly, my fault. I'll be fixing justifications and adding references and stuff for all the older profiles that I poorly made soon but yeah.
Unfortunately narrative implications do not tend to function well as actual separate scans lol, also yeah.
This is all Ishmael needs, Nonduality Type 2, the character must either embody all dual concepts or not belong to any of them at all, To put it simply, they are not bound by any form of duality, and the Watcher sees all dualities of that level of reality as fictional, like reading a book
The burden of proof is on you to prove that Ishmael has these powers, so they should be removed from her profile UNTIL you can actually prove that she has them.
She does have them, the scans are there. The issue is not the scans themselves but the justifications, which while sure is my fault doesn't disprove what is literally on there. It's also completely outside of my control that I can't get a scan translated that I have been trying to translate since December of last year. Which mind you, the scan says the same exact general thing it just makes it clearer for people like you to understand them.
Define a duality. Stating life and death is not a duality to begin with is just false, as that's dependent on how the series treats it.
A duality that qualifies on VSBW for nonduality is strictly P and not P. If a verse states "life and death is a duality and this person exists outside of it" it's not gonna be nonduality because it doesn't fit into the criteria of what I first said. Taoism involves duality but yin and yang/taiji on its own aren't gonna be qualifying for the ability as it doesnt invoke a very specific form of duality we require. If it's explicitly stated to be some shit like "life is concept of is and death is concept of is not" then that would be when it qualifies as it's defined differently than what normal life and death is.
Except, that's literally now how it's treated on the page. And until I see proof quoting the page we'll just continue going in circles. It's very easy to just claim "this qualifies on VSBW as so and so" without showing anything to support said claim, which is what everyone here other than myself has been doing. So until that happens, I will just continue to see this as an opinion rather than a fact, especially when as I have already proven. The page specifically states that's not the case.
Ok, and what is normal life and death? Saying normal life and death is literally as vague as you can get, because it depends on a bunch of factors that aren't universally applicable. Such as in real life, religion or belief and in fiction it becomes even more skewed. So until we reach solid ground on this it won't be possible to have a decent discussion and start actually tackling why Ishmael does or doesn't qualify.
Yes, but that requires additional context
Do you actually have additional scans showing that life and death are treated as a logical duality in this verse or are you just assuming that it is one?
The reality and non-reality one is only remotely interesting one here while rest aren't really relevant. What's the context behind reality and non-reality. What does bridging mean here? Is there any proof the character transcends or exists outside it as a concept?
I’ll pull them up, won’t be till maybe Friday or Saturday though since I work
The existence of a higher reality and seeing things below that reality as pages on a book, the example uses time but it’s everything. I’d link the exact scan but the forum is poorly optimized for mobile usage, or I just don’t know how to properly navigate it as well as I can on desktop.
Yeah the CN scan gives clearer clarification and context for it all.
We'll wait for the scan, then.
I don't see how that's related to dual systems.
I quote this then
This isn't how we determine Type 2 Non-Duality.
That is indeed not how ND2 is determined.
Yes, Ishmael has nonduality due to existing independently of all dual systems within an entire level of reality. I believe, previously this was specifically Transduality (unless I'm mistaken) the page makes it hard to see whether it's literally been deleted or just incorporated into ND but still...? Separate? Idk. Anyways, I want to clarify here. ND2 clearly states and treats reality itself as a duality (on a conceptual level) would this, or would this not mean that in accordance to this line here. Existing beyond the reality (aka, being another number besides 1 & 2 or being indescribable through numbers) should therefore qualify a character?
No, the issue is not showing the scan I don't have it on my phone.
To reiterate, what 2 states of being is the character allegedly existing independently of, or qualitatively beyond?
In this particular case it would be reality and non reality.
So how is the character independently of or qualitatively beyond both reality and non reality?
This scan, is actually quite useful. There is also the fact that Ishmael exists in a state that's completely independent of information (type 2), with everything in PGR all concepts, souls, minds, etc everything in the universe is information. This includes void, or non reality.
According to the exerpt, the context of Reality and non reality is in regards to having physical form and being conceptual.
Yeah, I am aware as I said. That is how information is treated in PGR, all events happening in reality, the current state of it, all that exists within it etc. That's information, unreality is yes of course what's not real, we do have stuff to prove that such as M.I.N.D space and dreams world. M.I.N.D space is an abstract concept based off the imaginative human mind, which she also is independent of.
You are proposing that Ishmael is neither a material nor an abstract concept.
It does encompass all abstract concepts, Lee's profile is a good example. His M.I.N.D space exists outside time and became a dimension of chaos, allowing him to record all his deaths in his battle across infinite pasts and futures.
Yes, there are so many I can't even count them honestly. I can pretty much give multiple examples of her being immune to literally everything in the verse up until another Watcher/Observer is created. The first is, she's completely immune to M.I.N.D space as well as normal consciousness like being able to just enter and exit the Commandant's mind. She's immune to the chaotic dreams of the Commandant after the result of them being corrupted by the Punishing Virus. She's immune to all of Luna Oblivion's abilities (which include type 1 CM and law manip), she's immune to all effects of the Hetero Tower which manifest the entire spacetime continuum and all of reality as a whole, while also allowing someone to transcend it, etc. There are even more examples if this isn't enough.
None of this is nondual. Is there anything else or is this all? It would be better for Firestorm808 to be able to give his evaluation sooner rather than later.
