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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

14A204A0C9EAE5AF305BA6A038C2D0AA44FFA0F6
 
As per the Broly light novel,
  • Upon entering Super Saiyan God, the aura erupting from Super Saiyan Goku "[disappeared], as if being absorbed inside" (chū ni suikoma reru yō ni kieru), and the "intense flow of energy" which manifested during the transformation "completely disappeared" (kanzen ni kiete ita) upon completion.
  • The Super Saiyan God is "a being equal to the gods—like Beerus" (kami――Birusu no yōna――ni hitoshī sonzaidearu).
  • Super Saiyan God grants "power from a different dimension" (jigen no kotonaru chikara).
  • A Super Saiyan God emits "Ki clearly different from that of a Super Saiyan" (Chō Saiya-jin to wa akiraka ni kotonaru Ki).
  • Super Saiyan Blue is "an even more unique and aggressive power" (sara ni ishitsu de kōgeki-teki na pawā).
Hehe.
 
MountainWine said:
vsbattles.com

"Skipping isn't Stopping" Hit Time skip revision

Time Skip factually doesn't stop time firstly, Vados says that it isn't time stop, but time skip(aka time travel), Goku in the fight against Hit says that he is predicting what movements he will do in the future to counter attack, which only makes sense if it isn't time stop, as if it was him...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

vsbattles.com

"Skipping? Stopping? man idek anymore" Hit time skip re-revision

Continuation of this thread...............look i know i just changed it like, yesterday, but come on, i couldn't stand around with this inconsistency and just do nothing, i am half reverting it, why? because i just realized how confusingly and nonsensically this ability is, so here we go It...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

Why is it considered Immeasurable Speed? Because Goku who was initially frozen in “Time Travel/Skip/whatever” began moving and keeping up with Hit.

Why is it considered an Outlier? DBS Anime Goku’s profile notes that Goku would have Immeasurable speed because of his encounter with Hit’s abilities. However that leads to too many inconsistencies and questions.
Click to expand...
who knows one day
 
random post

Honestly ... Dragonball supporters do a very bad job when it comes to representing Dragonballs H2H be through choreography or the breakdown of skill feats. Then you have legit Dragonballs fans who think Goku aint a martial artist, hes a bad one or that he still hasnt surpassed Roshi.

Now imagin adding them haters or guys with the reading skills of a 5 year old ... shit aint fun at all - but in all fairness, Dragonball isnt noob friendly at all when it comes to H2H but we aint discussing Gokus style of someone with the physicality and the naturally safe but fast pressure style, Gokus creative set ups with KI stuff, Piccolo dictating the pace with KI stuff or using KI stuff for feints ... bla bla ... too lazy for that shit which is a waste of time anway, lol.

Like brother, them nerds wanna tell me they didnt see Gokus sweety kick against Cell? That forward momentum and and how he subsequently rotated his body to increase the force of the kick? There are so many things that even a non trained guy could see but somehow somehow they get ignored.

Goku is hands down the most downplayed martial artist in all of fiction, be through choreography, narrative perspective or just straight up battleboarding. This comes from someone who started with comics first, manhwas/anime and then mangas. Not familiar with video games or novels, so cant say much aboute those two.

Niko from Kengan is the only ""modern"" guy I would put above anime Goku when it comes to styles. Manga Goku is skilled and displayed nice hand trapping and basic grappling skills but anime Goku is just built different.


I never thought Id be defending the visuals of a kidz show, but the nonsense people spew online is unbelievable. At least do it correctly and stop wanking your fav. verse or fk off. Imagin downplaying Hades from Saint Shou to street level and him losing against the US military. Thats Gokus martial art takes in a nutshell.
 
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Jinsama said:
random post

Honestly ... Dragonball supporters do a very bad job when it comes to representing Dragonballs H2H be through choreography or the breakdown of skill feats. Then you have legit Dragonballs fans who think Goku aint a martial artist, hes a bad one or that he still hasnt surpassed Roshi.

Now imagin adding them haters or guys with the reading skills of a 5 year old ... shit aint fun at all - but in all fairness, Dragonball isnt noob friendly at all when it comes to H2H but we aint discussing Gokus style of someone with the physicality and the naturally safe but fast pressure style, Gokus creative set ups with KI stuff, Piccolo dictating the pace with KI stuff or using KI stuff for feints ... bla bla ... too lazy for that shit which is a waste of time anway, lol.

Like brother, them nerds wanna tell me they didnt see Gokus sweety kick against Cell? That forward momentum and and how he subsequently rotated his body to increase the force of the kick? There are so many things that even a non trained guy could see but somehow somehow they get ignored.

Goku is hands down the most downplayed martial artist in all of fiction, be through choreography, narrative perspective or just straight up battleboarding. This comes from someone who started with comics first, manhwas/anime and then mangas. Not familiar with video games or novels, so cant say much aboute those two.

Niko from Kengan is the only ""modern"" guy I would put above anime Goku when it comes to styles. Manga Goku is skilled and displayed nice hand trapping and basic grappling skills but anime Goku is just built different.


I never thought Id be defending the visuals of a kidz show, but the nonsense people spew online is unbelievable. At least do it correctly and stop wanking your fav. verse or fk off. Imagin downplaying Hades from Saint Shou to street level and him losing against the US military. Thats Gokus martial art takes in a nutshell.
Click to expand...
Fundamentally speaking the only thing that matters in martial arts is landing blows and not taking blows. Ideally taking initiative at the start of the fight and landing a singular precise attack that knocks the opponent out instantly. Martial Arts just defines how you do these things.

In Goku's case all you need to do it point to his fight against Hit. He saw him fight exactly one time and within minutes can perfectly predict where he will move in zero time and counter attack. He downloaded Hit with zero difficulty and rendered Time Skip borderline meaningless, forcing Hit to evolve his Time Skip to go even further into the future to compensate for Goku's pure skill. The manga even shows Goku's ability to read body language, with him predicting Hit using Time Skip via a faint twitch in his hand.

And this isn't a unique trait of Goku. Even Freeza has illustrated an ability to instantly read an opponent's movements after seeing them fight only once. And he only fought Goku twice in his life but could run battle simulations in his mind for an entire year that gave him the adequate skill level to match Goku's movements, when during RoF he was totally outclassed, and then later perfectly coordinate with him against Jiren.

In short, the combat analysis abilities of DBS characters are incredibly high level. To the extent that time travelers and teleporters can be downloaded after a single encounter and with two fights they can run battle simulations in their mind to increase their skill level dramatically (albeit Freeza did so over the course of a year but this is against Goku who also had several years of training since Freeza last fought him).

In short, Goku is going to learn his opponent's fighting style in less than a minute of fighting, probably, and will be able to predict just about every movement they will make. Even if they have advantages like teleportation or manipulating time. Which provides him an extreme advantage in hand-to-hand combat in landing blows and avoiding blows.
 
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Jinsama said:
I never thought Id be defending the visuals of a kidz show, but the nonsense people spew online is unbelievable. At least do it correctly and stop wanking your fav. verse or fk off. Imagin downplaying Hades from Saint Shou to street level and him losing against the US military. Thats Gokus martial art takes in a nutshell.
Click to expand...
Lmao (also based for the Kengan mention)
 
Yeah, the distance would need to be upped, I think that would be contentious, at least if you used the guides, since daima contradicts in certain ways
 
What are you taking about?? I meant that if certain details aren’t the same, then assuming that details about overall size are, is contentious. Not that daima explicitly set a cap on size. (I may be wrong on that, but the point stands)
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Fundamentally speaking the only thing that matters in martial arts is landing blows and not taking blows. Ideally taking initiative at the start of the fight and landing a singular precise attack that knocks the opponent out instantly. Martial Arts just defines how you do these things.

In Goku's case all you need to do it point to his fight against Hit. He saw him fight exactly one time and within minutes can perfectly predict where he will move in zero time and counter attack. He downloaded Hit with zero difficulty and rendered Time Skip borderline meaningless, forcing Hit to evolve his Time Skip to go even further into the future to compensate for Goku's pure skill. The manga even shows Goku's ability to read body language, with him predicting Hit using Time Skip via a faint twitch in his hand.

And this isn't a unique trait of Goku. Even Freeza has illustrated an ability to instantly read an opponent's movements after seeing them fight only once. And he only fought Goku twice in his life but could run battle simulations in his mind for an entire year that gave him the adequate skill level to match Goku's movements and later perfectly coordinate with him against Jiren.

In short, the combat analysis abilities of DBS characters are incredibly high level. To the extent that time travelers and teleporters can be downloaded after a single encounter and with two fights they can run battle simulations in their mind to increase their skill level dramatically (albeit Freeza did so over the course of a year but this is against Goku who also had several years of training since Freeza last fought him).

In short, Goku is going to learn his opponent's fighting style in less than a minute of fighting, probably, and will be able to predict just about every movement they will make. Even if they have advantages like teleportation or manipulating time. Which provides him an extreme advantage in hand-to-hand combat in landing blows and avoiding blows.
Click to expand...

ngl

Goku is one of the very best when it comes to not getting hit by fatal blows (which matters a lot in stats equal matches) and doesnt rely on external stuff like healers, healing machines, hax regen etc. like some other popular fighters

Speaking of Hit (manga) since I havent watched that anime U6 tournament, if you break down that feat piece by piece ... its mind blowing. Im even ignoring the meaning of a stats gap in dragonball and Hits expierence. And I LOVE that Goku was like a open book and ruined its advantage.

A close friend of my sis told me some years ago "Proving Goku is a good martial artist is harder than getting through first year physics" and boooy theres so much truth.

Im fine with Goku sitting in Garou/Baki/Nightwing tier etc. but to get him there you have sacrifice every single neuron and blood vessels ... then the next 30 guys or even newer battleboarders arrive and claim the opposite ... wheres Shuras sword when you need that shti.
 
StekFence said:
What are you taking about?? I meant that if certain details aren’t the same, then assuming that details about overall size are, is contentious. Not that daima explicitly set a cap on size. (I may be wrong on that, but the point stands)
Click to expand...
what did you wanted to say?
 
Jinsama said:
ngl

Goku is one of the very best when it comes to not getting hit by fatal blows (which matters a lot in stats equal matches) and doesnt rely on external stuff like healers, healing machines, hax regen etc. like some other popular fighters

Speaking of Hit (manga) since I havent watched that anime U6 tournament, if you break down that feat piece by piece ... its mind blowing. Im even ignoring the meaning of a stats gap in dragonball and Hits expierence. And I LOVE that Goku was like a open book and ruined its advantage.

A close friend of my sis told me some years ago "Proving Goku is a good martial artist is harder than getting through first year physics" and boooy theres so much truth.

Im fine with Goku sitting in Garou/Baki/Nightwing tier etc. but to get him there you have sacrifice every single neuron and blood vessels ... then the next 30 guys or even newer battleboarders arrive and claim the opposite ... wheres Shuras sword when you need that shti.
Click to expand...
Even if Goku gets struck by fatal blows he still has options for himself like when he was confirmed dead and resurrected himself via a Ki blast he shot into the air before his death, which would also mean he calculated the trajectory of the blast and fooled his opponent into believing it was just aimlessly shot into space. And that's not factoring in his regenerative powers in his God forms.

And yeah Goku has a lot of great skill feats against Hit in the manga. The way he calls out his movements, clearly explains what he is doing and reads his body language multiple times to counteract is pretty wild.

The Kid Goku to 23rd Budokai days also has plenty of statements and feats as well for Goku's skill level but those often get overshadowed by Z's popularity. Loads of people have never even read Goku's earlier days so they have no idea of the kind of people he has faced or what training he has actually undergone.
 
Huesito88 said:
Lmao (also based for the Kengan mention)
Click to expand...
just sticking to legit visuals ... I love Goku but I gotta be objective. I dont think Goku will ever display the very few thing he hasnt in a correct way due flying and KI being a thing. Even without flying and KI things, in the real world if they take you down and go for a choke, you can tuck your chin to stop the arm and break their fingers to escape. I love small joint manipulations - a lot of techniques are banned across every single combat sports since it would change the entire dynamic of a fight.

But theres still ULTRA INSTINCT
:p

CryoTheMayo said:
Even if Goku gets struck by fatal blows he still has options for himself like when he was confirmed dead and resurrected himself via a Ki blast he shot into the air before his death, which would also mean he calculated the trajectory of the blast and fooled his opponent into believing it was just aimlessly shot into space. And that's not factoring in his regenerative powers in his God forms.

And yeah Goku has a lot of great skill feats against Hit in the manga. The way he calls out his movements, clearly explains what he is doing and reads his body language multiple times to counteract is pretty wild.

The Kid Goku to 23rd Budokai days also has plenty of statements and feats as well for Goku's skill level but those often get overshadowed by Z's popularity. Loads of people have never even read Goku's earlier days so they have no idea of the kind of people he has faced or what training he has actually undergone.
Click to expand...

Who needs all that stuff when you got UI - each individual part of the body doing its own thing and improves his movements passively. Gokus mind can watch that fight from above which gives him the advatange to come up with a Sosuke Aizen gameplan.

So basically, you are fighting two martial artist,lol.
 
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Just go into animation industry, and you guys will know how hard to animating flowery martial art moves at high speed. Look at SSJ2 Goku vs SSJ2 Majin Vegeta, they can animate martial art moves in slow speed, but when both of them goes into high speed battle, can only animate simple punch and kick, arguing who have better martial arts because of only animation and choreography choices is.........bad take
 
Jinsama said:
Who needs all that stuff when you got UI - each individual part of the body doing its own thing and improves his movements passively. Gokus mind can watch that fight from above which gives him the advatange to come up with a Sosuke Aizen gameplan.

So basically, you are fighting two martial artist,lol.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was purposefully omitting Ultra Instinct because it's almost cheating. It's especially a problem in the manga because Goku has learned to use UI at will and can even use the principles in his lower forms. So even if you have a rule stating he can only use Base form or Super Saiyan he can still access a lesser form of Ultra Instinct to up his skill level dramatically. Giving him enhanced instinctive action, automatic movement, etc. And that all gets stacked on top of the skill feats I listed before.
 
Vietthai96 said:
Just go into animation industry, and you guys will know how hard to animating flowery martial art moves at high speed. Look at SSJ2 Goku vs SSJ2 Majin Vegeta, they can animate martial art moves in slow speed, but when both of them goes into high speed battle, can only animate simple punch and kick, arguing who have better martial arts because of only animation and choreography choices is.........bad take
Click to expand...

watch that broly fight when the dark spots happens ... no idea what hes doing shti looks like a superman punch (?). not being noob friendly is one thing, high speed another but that broly stuff is just .. idk?

Anyway ... you can still see @goku vs vegeta 1 starting the fight with a quick stance change and a cross punch, then parries/catches Vegetas counter. Of course, you dont have to pay attention to everything or even see it. For the same reason you dont have to know that some of the grappling techniques Goku used in OG are legit and old school moves.

Was never a fan of visuals anyway and you are right.

CryoTheMayo said:
Yeah, I was purposefully omitting Ultra Instinct because it's almost cheating. It's especially a problem in the manga because Goku has learned to use UI at will and can even use the principles in his lower forms. So even if you have a rule stating he can only use Base form or Super Saiyan he can still access a lesser form of Ultra Instinct to up his skill level dramatically. Giving him enhanced instinctive action, automatic movement, etc. And that all gets stacked on top of the skill feats I listed before.
Click to expand...

And lets not forget my man is still a bottom tier users!

honestly the only thing that comes close to what UI is and what it contextually means reaching such a level ... maybe ryusui seikuken phase 3? Other verses are just fake UI - what Jiren does, what Goku displayed on namek or Roshis pseudo UI.

fully mastered UI Goku vs Kenshiro is a dream match :love: ... 2050

hre5jl84wpqc1.png
 
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***** been too quiet. It's been too long since there was a downgrade attempt.

Slam dunk upgrades getting rejected by stonewall and semantics? yeah, we have had that

Minor threads being dragged out because of hair splitting and obtuseness? Yep.

But a downgrade attempt? Not in a while. Shit sus. John Cena turned heel, we can't trust nothing now
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
***** been too quiet. It's been too long since there was a downgrade attempt.
Click to expand...
You say this and then two minutes later we're potentially getting Low 1-C removed
vsbattles.com

Hypertime(line) Standards Clarification (STAFF THREAD)

Got permission from @Firestorm808 to make this staff thread Recently, this concept have been used a lot by different verses, and going through the standard, we have vague description of both but no clear cut standard to what qualifies for this and what does not. HYPERTIME(LINE) Hypertime logic...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Thanks Ben
 
Ednaxel2 said:
You say this and then two minutes later we're potentially getting Low 1-C removed
vsbattles.com

Hypertime(line) Standards Clarification (STAFF THREAD)

Got permission from @Firestorm808 to make this staff thread Recently, this concept have been used a lot by different verses, and going through the standard, we have vague description of both but no clear cut standard to what qualifies for this and what does not. HYPERTIME(LINE) Hypertime logic...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Thanks Ben
Click to expand...
Opps be mad predictable.
 
Ednaxel2 said:
You say this and then two minutes later we're potentially getting Low 1-C removed
vsbattles.com

Hypertime(line) Standards Clarification (STAFF THREAD)

Got permission from @Firestorm808 to make this staff thread Recently, this concept have been used a lot by different verses, and going through the standard, we have vague description of both but no clear cut standard to what qualifies for this and what does not. HYPERTIME(LINE) Hypertime logic...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Thanks Ben
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t worry about it, it’s too narrow to be practical and all but explicitly targets DB.

If this went through, DC and Doctor Who would be the only two verses that even remotely qualify for the standards, and these standards remove the possibility of evidence based logical reasoning from scaling to hyper timelines.

It shouldn’t pass IMO
 
Hasty12345 said:
I wouldn’t worry about it, it’s too narrow to be practical and all but explicitly targets DB.

If this went through, DC and Doctor Who would be the only two verses that even remotely qualify for the standards, and these standards remove the possibility of evidence based logical reasoning from scaling to hyper timelines.

It shouldn’t pass IMO
Click to expand...
I mean Pein made it so it wasn't like any of us were worried it was air tight lol
 
Even if the thread is accepted, would it affect only canon or also heroes? Given the lot of time sheningans heroes has, I can see it mantaining its tier 1 with a lot of luck
 
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