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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

Lord_Farquaad69420 said:
Whats your dragonball hot takes, doesn't have to be scaling related.
Click to expand...

I think that z broly has oodles more depth in his initial movie that what most later portrayals paint him as, and that him being the "Legendary Super saiyan" doesnt ruin the subversion of the prophecy goku represents but reafirms it.

If super broly gets flanderized into going berserk every arc because a loved one died im boycotting all dragon ball related media.

Beyond having good ideas but shit execution GT's biggest sin is making dragon ball go from the Goku and Vegeta show to just the goku show. Having Vegeta turn into a glorified jobber that only serves to be half of gogeta hurts a tad bit more than what happens to tien.
 
Infinite9Luck said:
Did you guys like Dragon Ball Daima up to now?
Click to expand...
  • The series has pacing issues, starting off slow
    • (Necessary to show lore of the world, but one episode to make them small, another to just enter the demon world and another to get to know the demon world is a bit slow for a 20 episode series,
    • And then this continues from time to time: with scenes of the 5 police chiefs or whatever they are, when these characters finally do nothing, it's not even good comedy; or Goku and Vegeta's groups getting together so Goku says they're leaving without them due to lack of space and then they get together like 1 or 2 episodes later)
  • The special police forces are a nuisance and just fill unnecessary space, without really being relevant, funny or in general anything (and it takes half an episode to defeat them)
  • Shin's brother is wasted, revealing his intentions, doing nothing for a while, and being defeated in one episode (same episode as the previous guys)
  • I have a hard time seeing the probable redemption they try with Shin's sister, when she wants to literally destroy what she believes inferior, but seems to form bonds with the majin and Glorio
  • Why is the Glorio thing resolved so quickly? You find out about his past with Shin's sister in some dialogues and they immediately leave him
  • Bulma doesn't do anything in the whole series, except for the joke in the last chapter, her role was already being occupied by another character
  • The gag of the destroyed ships becomes annoying
  • The way of telling you the new lore is through dialogue, which although there was obviously no other option, leaves many points where there is only exposition (it will be a problem for those who try to rewatch it, but again, it's not really something to blame it for)

In short, Pacing problems, too many bad groups that make 2 of the 4 not work (the 5 heads of the police group, Shin's brother, Shin's sister's group and Gomah) and there are problems with one of them, along with what So far, a very compressed ending

It's not bad, but it's far from being a masterpiece, maybe a 7.5 or 8 out of 10 (like most Dragon Ball)
 
RinneItachi said:
Gohan is an overrated character, and everything after the Cell Games was bad for him
Click to expand...
In my case, I forgive him even in Super (anime only, the manga one has none of the good points of Gohan anime)
Seeing him fall so low that he has to be saved from Frieza by Piccolo like when he was a child, and soon after seeing everything he wanted destroyed (along with the planet) and getting up through pure training (instead of a ritual), While:
  • They let you explore his family and relationship with his partner between fillers
  • Trunks tells the spectators' faces that the Gohan from Super is the real Gohan, and that the Gohan of the future is the result of how he had to live, that is, the main Gohan was never going to end up like that, and is in fact being happier with his peaceful life
  • Goku respects Gohan as a son and accepts that he is not interested in fights (in the manga not, examples of this are when they are looking for fighters for the Universe 6 Tournament, or when someone else has to tell Goku that he should look for Gohan for the Tournament of power... he just shows respect to Gohan for the Moro saga by apologizing for forcing him to have to fight),
  • Gohan showing more determination little by little (especially after finding out what happened in the Black saga)

Finally Gohan has to train for the tournament of power, Piccolo emphasizes his confidence issues and they work on it, he earns Goku's respect as a fighter, and is named leader of his team

In short, the Gohan of Super anime is the version of the Boo saga well done,...
Now, for Superhero... I will never forgive it:
  • The movie was not going to be about Gohan, and his entire plot in it feels bad and rushed... and that is present at all times
  • Piccolo (and the movie in general) only spends time talking about his potential and how disappointing it is that he stopped training, without respecting his daily part of life.
  • Gohan becomes an absent father despite being at home, something that makes no sense in the context of the anime, where he gave time to Pan and his family in general, while in Superhero, Pan has doubts about Gohan, both in power and if he loves her (as I recall)
  • Gohan gets power ups without deserving it, no longer works for himself, and becomes Top tier of the verse because "he gets very angry"

If we had to rank the evolution of the reset gohans, it would be like this:
  1. Super Anime
  2. Majin Boo
  3. Super Manga Superhero Arc (they did it better than the movie, although not by much)
  4. Super Manga Pre-Superhero (he is not respected until within the tournament of power, we kind of skip the arc that begins his development in Super and the rest is told instead of shown, even after this we do not see Gohan do much else apart from fight
  5. Superhero Movie (he does everything wrong)
 
Sparkive said:
  • The series has pacing issues, starting off slow
    • (Necessary to show lore of the world, but one episode to make them small, another to just enter the demon world and another to get to know the demon world is a bit slow for a 20 episode series,
    • And then this continues from time to time: with scenes of the 5 police chiefs or whatever they are, when these characters finally do nothing, it's not even good comedy; or Goku and Vegeta's groups getting together so Goku says they're leaving without them due to lack of space and then they get together like 1 or 2 episodes later)
  • The special police forces are a nuisance and just fill unnecessary space, without really being relevant, funny or in general anything (and it takes half an episode to defeat them)
  • Shin's brother is wasted, revealing his intentions, doing nothing for a while, and being defeated in one episode (same episode as the previous guys)
  • I have a hard time seeing the probable redemption they try with Shin's sister, when she wants to literally destroy what she believes inferior, but seems to form bonds with the majin and Glorio
  • Why is the Glorio thing resolved so quickly? You find out about his past with Shin's sister in some dialogues and they immediately leave him
  • Bulma doesn't do anything in the whole series, except for the joke in the last chapter, her role was already being occupied by another character
  • The gag of the destroyed ships becomes annoying
  • The way of telling you the new lore is through dialogue, which although there was obviously no other option, leaves many points where there is only exposition (it will be a problem for those who try to rewatch it, but again, it's not really something to blame it for)

In short, Pacing problems, too many bad groups that make 2 of the 4 not work (the 5 heads of the police group, Shin's brother, Shin's sister's group and Gomah) and there are problems with one of them, along with what So far, a very compressed ending

It's not bad, but it's far from being a masterpiece, maybe a 7.5 or 8 out of 10 (like most Dragon Ball)
Click to expand...
i give it a 7, the animation carries it
 
Sparkive said:
  • The series has pacing issues, starting off slow
    • (Necessary to show lore of the world, but one episode to make them small, another to just enter the demon world and another to get to know the demon world is a bit slow for a 20 episode series,
    • And then this continues from time to time: with scenes of the 5 police chiefs or whatever they are, when these characters finally do nothing, it's not even good comedy; or Goku and Vegeta's groups getting together so Goku says they're leaving without them due to lack of space and then they get together like 1 or 2 episodes later)
  • The special police forces are a nuisance and just fill unnecessary space, without really being relevant, funny or in general anything (and it takes half an episode to defeat them)
  • Shin's brother is wasted, revealing his intentions, doing nothing for a while, and being defeated in one episode (same episode as the previous guys)
  • I have a hard time seeing the probable redemption they try with Shin's sister, when she wants to literally destroy what she believes inferior, but seems to form bonds with the majin and Glorio
  • Why is the Glorio thing resolved so quickly? You find out about his past with Shin's sister in some dialogues and they immediately leave him
  • Bulma doesn't do anything in the whole series, except for the joke in the last chapter, her role was already being occupied by another character
  • The gag of the destroyed ships becomes annoying
  • The way of telling you the new lore is through dialogue, which although there was obviously no other option, leaves many points where there is only exposition (it will be a problem for those who try to rewatch it, but again, it's not really something to blame it for)

In short, Pacing problems, too many bad groups that make 2 of the 4 not work (the 5 heads of the police group, Shin's brother, Shin's sister's group and Gomah) and there are problems with one of them, along with what So far, a very compressed ending

It's not bad, but it's far from being a masterpiece, maybe a 7.5 or 8 out of 10 (like most Dragon Ball)
Click to expand...
The pacing issue cause by the low number of episode, literally they tried to compress too many contents into only 20 episodes. This kind of format help the animation, though to me, Daima should run for at least half a year for all the stuffs they have been presented so far, unless Daima is only an "advertisement" to the next Super or DB contents they are going to release in the future
 
vsbattles.com

Very Minor DBS Anime CRT

Name changes I brought this up probably many times now but I'll just quote what I said in my previous thread: "All Super characters page names should indicate which continuity they are in, since we index both the manga and anime. Meaning that for example Cabba should be "Cabba (Anime)" (even if...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
The only Daima criticism I super agree with is pacing. The first five episodes feel like they were for a 25 or 30 episode series. The comedy is honestly some of Toriyama's best, but in this crunch time frame of 20 episodes, these normally pretty funny gags come across as time wasters.

That being said, there was an obvious attempt to portray Demon Realm inhabitants with nuance, they aren't just evil becuz, you have genuinely kind and silly people with all your standard bandits and nefarious rulers.

That's why I actually really like the stuff with hot scientist lady and her Majin kids. For as menacing as they attempt to come across with grand plans and whatnot, they really aren't all that evil. She's actually pretty reasonable, and us not knowing exactly what happened between her and Glorio imo helps that image of her not exactly being just another evil scientist who wants power.

She says one thing, but then her behavior clearly shows another.

The Glorio redemption stuff was chefs kiss tbh, such a succinct showing of what the Z fighters are all about.

Now this last one hinges on the final episode, but It also partially agree with Shin's brother not exactly offering much. Being defeated so easily, not really offering much obstacle, etc.

Bulma justified her existence with the Vegeta joke tbh, so her being redundant I don't think is that much of a knock.

But yeah, the characterization has been largely the best we've gotten in years, most of the new characters are likeable, animation and fights are amazing. There are some issues with continuity, pacing, and a side plot that hasn't amounted to much, but overall, genuinely fun and enjoyable experience from Daima.

It's an 8 for me as of rn, if the ending really sticks the landing, it could be higher.

It's not the genre defining masterpiece of King Piccolo through Frieza, or even the generational Buu and Cell with highs so high they overshadow their flaws imo, but it's a solid final outing from Toriyama.

It's in the anime ToP and Moro tier for me.
 
Last edited:
To elaborate on my hot take about Gohan, beyond Beast being an asspull, he's fine in Superhero.

I get if it's repetitive, but this he's an absent father because he asked the person he trusts most in the world to pick his daughter up from school one too many times is legit stupidity. Gohan is portrayed as a loving and caring father whose dedication to his studies can sometimes cause conflict.

His performance against the Gammas and him learning the SPC clearly shows he hasn't been slacking or gotten rusty, to me it just seemed Gohan wasn't not yet in a proactive mindset of being Earth's protector.

Which completely tracks. Gohan is physically able to stand on business, but he is slow to lock in.

That being said, Gohan was sort of just inserted into the movie and it shows with how clunky it decides to tell his story, even if I think it's ultimately fine.

So any Gohan character assassination shit in Superhero is silly to me as you have to be as unchariatable as possible to reach this hes a bad dad conclusion. (The Goku not knowing Vegeta was meditating was some mad bullshit tho)
 
Last edited:
It seems that Toyotaro has taken over Akira Toriyama's work once and for all. If he's joking, there won't be any mention of him in the next manga or any other work.

 
Lord_Farquaad69420 said:
Whats your dragonball hot takes, doesn't have to be scaling related.


I like jiren
ash-baby.gif
Click to expand...
Piccolo isn't as smart as he's stated, the guy makes some pretty catastrophically fumbles when it comes to intelligence or outright do some dumb stuff.

Tien is so overrated OMFG shut the **** up about it...his Lationamerican memes are funny though.

Trunks makes mistakes too during the Cell Saga, mistakes that under the same logic that gets lobbed at everyone else should be judged.

People discredit Vegeta's estimation of his power in relation to others too much, yes, he does job a lot because he got cocky but people act like he's never right ever, even though many times he does get his estimations right.

For example people dismiss him saying he can beat 18 without Super Saiyan at then tournament because he got his ass kicked by her before, he's cocky and he can't sense her ki. This is forgetting that Vegeta already fought with her and fought people way stronger than her, plus the fact he already got an idea of her strength in their first fight, at the very least he should be above the level she showed in that fight at the road.
 
BlastX said:
Trunks makes mistakes too during the Cell Saga, mistakes that under the same logic that gets lobbed at everyone else should be judged.
Click to expand...
except that he didn't make the most stupid ones, yes, he used the super saiyan grade 3 against Cell, which prevented him from fighting because he had no speed, but, it was in a desesperated attempt to fight Cell, so it is understandable...on other hand, EVERYONE CONTRIBUTED TO CELL ALMOST WINNING
 
Alexander said:
except that he didn't make the most stupid ones, yes, he used the super saiyan grade 3 against Cell, which prevented him from fighting because he had no speed, but, it was in a desesperated attempt to fight Cell, so it is understandable...on other hand, EVERYONE CONTRIBUTED TO CELL ALMOST WINNING
Click to expand...
Does that even count as a mistake? He couldn't beat Cell either way.
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
Does that even count as a mistake? He couldn't beat Cell either way.
Click to expand...

I mean, not beating Cell is not a mistake, the mistake would be knowing how to stop him, and you decide that you will not apply the way to stop him.It's like you have an enemy that, if you let it regenerate completely, will be thousands of times more powerful, but now in its most incomplete state, you can defeat it...you decide that it must regenerate completely.
 
Daima holes are mostly explainable except SSj4 but SSJ4 not making any sense aint as clear cut as the manga since Anime Beerus didnt ask him if SSJ 3 is his strongest form, Gokus instincts saved him from death and then he got KOd so he didnt have the chance to show it.

Was it really authors intent? Ive no idea ... show ended like 10 years ago so who knows, lol.

giphy.gif
 
Jinsama said:
Daima holes are mostly explainable except SSj4 but SSJ4 not making any sense aint as clear cut as the manga since Anime Beerus didnt ask him if SSJ 3 is his strongest form, Gokus instincts saved him from death and then he got KOd so he didnt have the chance to show it.

Was it really authors intent? Ive no idea ... show ended like 10 years ago so who knows, lol.

giphy.gif
Click to expand...
Man, stop trying to negate the level of mediocrasy that is this
 
Entity said:
And when Beerus hit Bulma Vegeta was so angry that he forgot he could transform into Super Saiyan 3
Click to expand...
To me it’s entirely conceivable that SSJ3 just isn’t the best transformation for Vegeta. The form kind of sucks.

And I’m more than happy to just call Kibito Kai a retcon, but I don’t think there’s some “explanation” for it. It’s flat out just a retcon.
 
Jinsama said:
Daima holes are mostly explainable except SSj4 but SSJ4 not making any sense aint as clear cut as the manga since Anime Beerus didnt ask him if SSJ 3 is his strongest form
Click to expand...
In episode 5, Beerus acknowledges Goku is holding back his "hidden power" and demands he display "everything" and unleash "[his] real power", and Goku describes Super Saiyan 3 as the "most powerful [of the Super Saiyan forms]"; after Goku instinctively evades Beerus's killing blow, Beerus even wonders if Goku is "hiding more powers". By the end of Daima, as an adult, Goku could freely use the full extents of the power of Super Saiyan 4, which is vastly superior to the previous form. He has zero reason to not use Super Saiyan 4, which presumably yields a far more stable energy consumption, when asked to display everything he has.
 
Yeah I don't think Toriyama was really concerned with how Daima would tie into Super, seems like he was just writing a fun new story to add on to his original manga with some nods to lore added in by Super like the Supreme Kais from other universes (Or the fact the other universes exist in general).

Personally I'd consider this seperate from both the super anime and manga atm, I'm sure Toyotaro will try and mesh it all together at some point tho.
 
Hasty12345 said:
To me it’s entirely conceivable that SSJ3 just isn’t the best transformation for Vegeta. The form kind of sucks.
Click to expand...
If he uses it against Gomah then he would have surely used it against Beerus since he hurt his Bulma, there are no reasons to hold back in that situation
 
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