• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

World of Darkness, an Unasked for Sequel

Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't feel enough of a connection with you to wanna engage in teasing like that.
 
Agnaa said:
I don't feel enough of a connection with you to wanna engage in teasing like that.
Click to expand...
Not going derail the thread, I don't see how this is relevant nor did it look like anything serious until you formally appeared making it just awkward. I was clarifying a matter, I don't see why you need to mention this without just responding to the first point which I already clarify wasn't serious.

On a lighter note,

OT: I agree with the Godheads being High 1-A.
 
Guessing you mean The Essential Divinity being 0.

Though that'll be for a future CRT
 
I agree with goofy
Godheads h1-a being but > Godheads above Infinity meta - qualitative

I Disagree with god h1-a+ type 1
Bc type1 is capable of affect all possible
Which is the same structure that can create and destroy possibilities equally. I don't see different about it
Paradox ,mage and godhead or other
They keep surpassing each other.
 
Ihsjihahxu said:
I agree with goofy
Godheads h1-a being but > Godheads above Infinity meta - qualitative

I Disagree with god h1-a+ type 1
Bc type1 is capable of affect all possible
Which is the same structure that can create and destroy possibilities equally. I don't see different about it
Paradox ,mage and godhead or other
They keep surpassing each other.
Click to expand...

Type 2 is affecting all possibilities. Not Type 1
 
High 1-A+ type 1 is affecting arbitrarily many possibilities. High 1-A+ type 2 is containing/embodying all possibilities. Source.
 
Agnaa said:
High 1-A+ type 1 is affecting arbitrarily many possibilities. High 1-A+ type 2 is containing/embodying all possibilities. Source.
Click to expand...
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Type 1 is very specific and barely anything fits the agenda. Either they're 0 or the second type.
Click to expand...
Hence why the Tellurian is such.

"I'm not trying to attack anything, just demonstrate a point. If God can create the boulder so big He can't lift it, then His power isn't infinite: It's not sufficient to lift the boulder. But if He can't make a boulder too big to lift, than His power is still not infinite; It's not sufficient to create the boulder. That's the kind of problems you run into in the singular world. But the multiple world resolves those paradoxes."

"On that first day of infinite potential, we rode out in our multitudes. The Throne of Moonlight, the Crimson Dominion, the Seven Radiant Cherubim... Under them, lesser creatures like the Archangel Viridian, the Power of Reflection... even my humble self. On that first day, literally everything was possible. And our job was to winnow that possibility, spinning it into threads and weaving the best of all possible worlds.
 
Apotheosis69 said:
Hence why the Tellurian is such.

"I'm not trying to attack anything, just demonstrate a point. If God can create the boulder so big He can't lift it, then His power isn't infinite: It's not sufficient to lift the boulder. But if He can't make a boulder too big to lift, than His power is still not infinite; It's not sufficient to create the boulder. That's the kind of problems you run into in the singular world. But the multiple world resolves those paradoxes."

"On that first day of infinite potential, we rode out in our multitudes. The Throne of Moonlight, the Crimson Dominion, the Seven Radiant Cherubim... Under them, lesser creatures like the Archangel Viridian, the Power of Reflection... even my humble self. On that first day, literally everything was possible. And our job was to winnow that possibility, spinning it into threads and weaving the best of all possible worlds.
Click to expand...
If it exits purely as a place of potentiality that's connected to the Supernal then yeah.
 
Apotheosis69 said:
Hence why the Tellurian is such.

"I'm not trying to attack anything, just demonstrate a point. If God can create the boulder so big He can't lift it, then His power isn't infinite: It's not sufficient to lift the boulder. But if He can't make a boulder too big to lift, than His power is still not infinite; It's not sufficient to create the boulder. That's the kind of problems you run into in the singular world. But the multiple world resolves those paradoxes."

"On that first day of infinite potential, we rode out in our multitudes. The Throne of Moonlight, the Crimson Dominion, the Seven Radiant Cherubim... Under them, lesser creatures like the Archangel Viridian, the Power of Reflection... even my humble self. On that first day, literally everything was possible. And our job was to winnow that possibility, spinning it into threads and weaving the best of all possible worlds.
Click to expand...
Genuinely not understanding why this is High 1-A+
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
If it exits purely as a place of potentiality that's connected to the Supernal then yeah.
Click to expand...
First there was the Wyld. Infinite possibility flowed unchecked, untamed. No meaning. No order. No substance. No time or space.
　　　With infinite possibility came the birth of the Weaver. If anything was possible, then something could exist to actualize that possibility, giving it form and limit. The Weaver was born. The Weaver gave substance to the creation of the Wyld. There was time and space. There was conflict. Through conflict, there was meaning.

Does this count?

The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Genuinely not understanding why this is High 1-A+
Click to expand...
Its pure (im)possibility. Its beyond all forms of hierarchy, and comes from the Supernal which genuinely is "ALL"
 
I don't think the scans themselves are clear enough. Name-dropping possible worlds isn't a way to achieve it. The ground from which 0(Essential Divinity) makes things possible is the Supernal(Type 2 or High 1-A+). If you want to get the first variant that would have to mean the Tellurium exists as some sort of extension of that while simultaneously being outside of a hierarchy while containing it since it purely functions on logistics.

So, the Mages getting scaled to High 1-A+ is a problem for me. I couldn't really concur an argument around it other than the Tellurium being very high into High 1-A.
 
Apotheosis69 said:
Type 2 is affecting all possibilities. Not Type 1
Click to expand...
I think I was right, but the structure I meant does not encompass everything that falls under Type 2. But Type 1 is affecting many possibilities.
While he can alter reality at will, those of the same type can do the same.
Ihsjihahxu said:
I agree with goofy
Godheads h1-a being but > Godheads above Infinity meta - qualitative

I Disagree with god h1-a+ type 1
Bc type1 is capable of affect all possible
Which is the same structure that can create and destroy possibilities equally. I don't see different about it
Paradox ,mage and godhead or other
They keep surpassing each other.
Click to expand...



This can probably be clarified by elucidating the "ladder" going from the two types of High 1-A+ to Tier 0. Basically, I'd say:

High 1-A+ (First type) = Character who can actualize arbitrarily large logical possibilities

High 1-A+ (Second type) = Character who embodies all possibilities.

0 = Character who doesn't "actualize" possibilities, but generates and grounds possibility itself to begin with.

The first kind of High 1-A+ is relevant because, as High 1-A itself suggests, you can have "meta"-qualitative superiorities beyond 1-A, and you can also have "meta"-meta-qualitative superiorities within High 1-A itself, and afterwards you can just keep stacking "meta"s pretty much endlessly. The first type of character would be basically someone who can select a logical possibility corresponding to any given "size" and make it actual, and who as such has access to any conceivable extension of the aforementioned process. Not just extensions taking the form of a linear, infinite sequence, but also hierarchies of such sequences, and so on and so forth. By that token, it's not quite accurate to say that this High 1-A+ is "The creator of all possibilities who can also destroy them if it wants," in my opinion. It's not like they'd have created themselves, or created a possibility where they are destroyed. So you can say that there is a sense in which the second type of High 1-A+ is stronger, yeah. Because they are the framework of possibilities itself, instead of a being existing in said framework.
Click to expand...

Ultima said: The first type of character would be basically someone who can select a logical possibility corresponding to any given "size" and make it actual, and who as such has access to any conceivable extension of the aforementioned process
Click to expand...
While the first type of character can access all possibilities that align with and define reality, allowing them to extend possibilities further—when others of the same type operate in the same manner, why do they still differ and surpass one another, even though they impact the same structure?
 
Any peeps in this thread not here to discuss WoD, the exits are Here. Here and Here.


The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Genuinely not understanding why this is High 1-A+
Click to expand...
My OP explains why.


VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
So, the Mages getting scaled to High 1-A+ is a problem for me. I couldn't really concur an argument around it other than the Tellurium being very high into High 1-A.
Click to expand...
They ain't.

Only certain interactions with Prime itself. They can manipulate Prime, the Archetype of all things, but the expression of that isn't equal with its potency because there's external factors limiting them until they reach a high enough understanding. Only at Prime 9 do they understand how to make their own Tellurian with Prime would scale... because they literally do the thing.

Ihsjihahxu said:
While the first type of character can access all possibilities that align with and define reality, allowing them to extend possibilities further—when others of the same type operate in the same manner, why do they still differ and surpass one another, even though they impact the same structure?
Click to expand...
They don't. Mages don't go near the Supernal perfection.

Mages, Godheads and Paradox are all within the "Consensus hierarchy". I have no idea where people got the idea that Mages ever reach the heights of the Triat, let alone the Supernal Triat.
 
Udlmaster said:
Only certain interactions with Prime itself. They can manipulate Prime, the Archetype of all things, but the expression of that isn't equal with its potency because there's external factors limiting them until they reach a high enough understanding. Only at Prime 9 do they understand how to make their own Tellurian with Prime would scale... because they literally do the thing.
Click to expand...
The explanation below kind of explains why they wouldn't get the tier:
Udlmaster said:
They don't. Mages don't go near the Supernal perfection.

Mages, Godheads and Paradox are all within the "Consensus hierarchy". I have no idea where people got the idea that Mages ever reach the heights of the Triat, let alone the Supernal Triat.
Click to expand...
Does the consensus hierarchy have the mages in a different order of power? Also, High 1-A+ are the apexes of their tier and the first variant other than the second variant and 0 kinda needs to encompass all that just short of the two tiers higher than it.

The Supernal is above the Tellrium from what I seen so all “possible worlds” would be a description for the Supernal. It’s not a limiting factor for a verse to not place said worlds at the top, but it’s how we define it here.
 
Last edited:
Disagree with High 1-A+ (yadada scaling chain kinda ruins the entire point of "all possibilities" shtick), but tier 0 is stupidly blatant.
 
Livinmeme said:
Disagree with High 1-A+ (yadada scaling chain kinda ruins the entire point of "all possibilities" shtick), but tier 0 is stupidly blatant.
Click to expand...
There isn't, not for Penultimate (Type 2)

Or actually type 1 for that matter, since the Triat are all equals
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately, it seems that the Tellurian and the Consensus will be regular High 1-A. BUT it will be the Absolute highest it can be. Like Supra-Supra-Supra-Supra-Quality.

Alder Bole, the Pattern Web and the Void will be High 1-A+ (Type 1)
 
Apotheosis69 said:
Unfortunately, it seems that the Tellurian and the Consensus will be regular High 1-A. BUT it will be the Absolute highest it can be. Like Supra-Supra-Supra-Supra-Quality.

Alder Bole, the Pattern Web and the Void will be High 1-A+ (Type 1)
Click to expand...
Huh, can you tell why Tellurian Supra-Supra-Supra-Supra-Quality.

If i understand. the Tellurian of the creating mage and in Tellurion, there is an infinite hierarchy.
Where lower tellurians are merely shadows for higher tellurians.
Creating a universe is best left to the Storyteller’s imagina-
tion. Due to the differences in primal Patterns, objects from
a created universe cannot survive in the parent universe (the
Tellurian of the creating mage). They are, at best, insubstantial
shadows of that higher reality. The reverse is not true; the
creating mage (and other creatures or objects of his reality)
are quite functional in such a pocket universe, unless the
creating mage specifically builds its Pattern otherwise. This
can be a unique way to explore some very bizarre stories.]
Click to expand...
If Deep Umbra Meta - meta-meta-mtea Qualitative
Tellurian created by mage Above Deep umbra. Right? If i understand correctly.
Tellurian created by mage is Infinity meta Qualitative
Tellurian parents is supra qualitative

As I understand it, I haven't read much yet. After mid-March, I will finish reading it all.
 
Livinmeme said:
Goddamit, wouldn't that not make Wizards not high 1-A+? This is confusing
Click to expand...
The Triat are hilariously above Mages, so no. Mages would just be regular ol' High 1-A (the highest Mages, btw, not all)

Ihsjihahxu said:
If i understand. the Tellurian of the creating mage and in Tellurion, there is an infinite hierarchy.
Where lower tellurians are merely shadows for higher tellurians.
Click to expand...
I don't speak to the additions like "supra" or whatever else because I think it's immaterial to the discussion.

However, the reason why that section is important is that it says that this maybe how "our" (the main Tellurian) came about, a Mage from a higher Tellurian made it, and then the same thing applies, and there's just an endless number of Tellurians being made within each other.

If you need a contemporary example, it's the Microverse episode from Rick and Morty.
 
Last edited:
And that isn't even getting to the post-conceptual nightmare of Ascension itself... i.e. the meta-meta-meta-meta being that it is so "high", it is beyond humanly description, thus Mage pulls a genius move and leaves it intentionally ambiguous as applying a "concept" to a post-concept is futile...
 
 
RhoStreak said:
And that isn't even getting to the post-conceptual nightmare of Ascension itself... i.e. the meta-meta-meta-meta being that it is so "high", it is beyond humanly description, thus Mage pulls a genius move and leaves it intentionally ambiguous as applying a "concept" to a post-concept is futile...
Click to expand...
My favourite interpretation of this is from ToJ and is from The Nameless King's mouth.

That there is no 10th Sphere, there is no Transcendence and that the 10th seat is just his throne and has no special powers to it.

That humanity always wants to put everything into neat little boxes and easy to comprehend neat theories that categorizes everything and that the entire time, it just doesn't exist, it's just our collective delusion with different flavourings.
 
Udlmaster said:
My favourite interpretation of this is from ToJ and is from The Nameless King's mouth.

That there is no 10th Sphere, there is no Transcendence and that the 10th seat is just his throne and has no special powers to it.

That humanity always wants to put everything into neat little boxes and easy to comprehend neat theories that categorizes everything and that the entire time, it just doesn't exist, it's just our collective delusion with different flavourings.
Click to expand...
Ah, my favourite. Al-Aswad hopping on the page with a megaphone and going, ‘Surprise, folks! No Tenth Sphere, no final truth, just an empty seat and a cunning trap. The rest was group hallucination. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.’

It’s gloriously Mage. A big cosmic shrug, ‘Hey, guess what—you were projecting all along! No Ascension!’ Because in true Mage: The Ascension fashion, the line between collective delusion and ultimate revelation is basically a Möbius strip. We chase the perfect, final Sphere—only to find out (maybe) it's an illusion. Or maybe that’s a lie from the world’s most smug Nephandi, who is either telling the truth, or perhaps he is lying.

But that’s the beauty, isn’t it? Ascension (or the Tenth Sphere, or the “final secret”) can’t be pinned down by any single viewpoint, and especially not from a book of questionable canonicity at best. The moment you do—poof—it’s no longer the big cosmic unknowable; it’s just another chunk of magickal dogma for fluff. I personally think that ambiguity is what makes Ascension post-conceptual. If it were pinned down by a nice bullet-point list, we’d lose the entire point of stepping outside every framework.
 
Last edited:
RhoStreak said:
It’s gloriously Mage. A big cosmic shrug, ‘Hey, guess what—you were projecting all along! No Ascension!’ Because in true Mage: The Ascension fashion, the line between collective delusion and ultimate revelation is basically a Möbius strip. We chase the perfect, final Sphere—only to find out (maybe) it's an illusion. Or maybe that’s a lie from the world’s most smug Nephandi, who is either telling the truth, or perhaps he is lying.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there's always the possibility that he's lying even now, because "hello? He's Nephandi!", I do take his words with a tiny amount less salt than other Nephandi because in that scenario he has literally just won and doesn't really get anything out of lying and also has all the resources in All Creation, and if that doesn't make someone ascend, what would.

RhoStreak said:
But that’s the beauty, isn’t it? Ascension (or the Tenth Sphere, or the “final secret”) can’t be pinned down by any single viewpoint, and especially not from a book of questionable canonicity at best. The moment you do—poof—it’s no longer the big cosmic unknowable; it’s just another chunk of magickal dogma for fluff. I personally think that ambiguity is what makes Ascension post-conceptual. If it were pinned down by a nice bullet-point list, we’d lose the entire point of stepping outside every framework.
Click to expand...
Yeah, closest thing we do get is Telos and we still don't know if that's really a thing still.

It's why the blog and basically everything I use for WoD doesn't touch on the 10th sphere or Ascension, because we don't know, it's a genuine possibility it doesn't exist and if it does, no one can agree what the hell it's meant to be.

Livinmeme said:
Gu chensha also has that shit, so it can't be as high as possible, because High 1-A quite literally never ends, otherwise it would be high 1-A+ because it embodies everything on it.
Click to expand...
Achtually, there is. My OC has infinity and 1 attack and can't die and is the strongerer of everything.
 
Buddha, Gaia, and Jade Emperor I presume in their truest state scale to the Supernal Unity? I wonder how multiple High 1-A+(Type 2) profiles look like. Perhaps, we could just cut that out and put it into a Supernal profile instead of keys for the individual profiles, thoughts?

I agree with the Tellirum being High 1-A(Supra-meta-quality), Triat being High 1-A+(Type 1), and the Supernal being High 1-A+(Type 2). I was convinced during a discussion with Udlmaster and Apotheosis.
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Buddha, Gaia, and Jade Emperor I presume in their truest state scale to the Supernal Unity?
Click to expand...
Buddha and Gaea, yes. My opinion on the Jade Emperor has soured slightly and I plan to re-evaluate where to put him. At the highest, he would also occupy the Supernal Perfection.

VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Perhaps, we could just cut that out and put it into a Supernal profile instead of keys for the individual profiles, thoughts?
Click to expand...
I think a singular profile would work, though I'm not sure how to re-direct from each of the profiles to the Supernal profile in terms of formatting.

For the other aspects of them, such as the Triat manifest and such would keep/get their own profiles.
 
And we should make World of Darkness profiles now, because people used their laziness to not work on this overpowered verse.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Planck69
  • Locked
God of War CRT: Cosmology Upgrade/Page Clean Up
Replies
24
Views
2K
Planck69
Planck69
Eseseso
  • Locked
Marvel's Comics' Magnificent Mystic Cosmology full of Marvelous Magic!
2
Replies
67
Views
5K
Planck69
Planck69
FriendOfTheTeaParty
Getting logic manip and a few out of the way for a verse to come in the distant future (Godclads/Deathless)
Replies
10
Views
834
Vietthai96
Vietthai96
SuperSonicTL
  • Locked
Devil May Cry: Information Manipulation
2 3 4
Replies
143
Views
9K
Reiner04
Reiner04
  • Locked
Refutation of Supernova’s Debunk Regarding Yog-Sothoth
2 3
Replies
89
Views
3K
Qawsedf234
Qawsedf234
Back
Top