Massive Terraria CRT

[Lou_change]

Bump
Could either of the Calc group members here @ some of the supporters and knowledgeable members on the verse page?

 

[Dalesean027]

Im confused what are we needing more people for? We already determined the values and have votes

 

[Lou_change]

I am pretty sure 2 staff with voting rights are needed and since tier 2 is a fact we need at least one administrator. Contacting CrimsonStarFallen and Mr. Bambu two staff members who claim to be knowledgeable on the verse seems reasonable.

 

[Dalesean027]

I am pretty sure 2 staff with voting rights are needed and since tier 2 is a fact we need at least one administrator. Contacting CrimsonStarFallen and Mr. Bambu two staff members who claim to be knowledgeable on the verse seems reasonable.

You don't need an admin at all just 2 staff votes is fine

 

[Lou_change]

About that

• For content revisions that affect Tier 2 or higher, the participation of at least one Administrator in the review and approval process is required.
  • The Administrator(s) should provide their evaluations and input regarding the suggested revision, and their decision will be given significant weight in the final determination of approval.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Oh boy, here we go... I'm here because I am bored.

First of all: I am neutral on the Celestial pillars. Both sides have a good argument.

What I am iffy on is Galaxy level and Uni+.

Galaxy level​

This is... one tooltip. from one thing. No, a planet level feat does not support a 3-C tiering. Not exactly contradictory because this shit was not hard to do for the pillars, but it does not support 3-C. So... yes this is a one-off statement with little support. Is this more funky than other Terraria tiers like 5-C? I'd say they're comparable, but then again if I had my way we'd downgrade everyone that isn't Endgame rated to Fishron's mist feat as to not have a shaky ass feat be the only thing for scaling.

So, as it stands, 3-C would be fine with how loosely Terraria tiers are treated at the moment, if we put an analytical eye over it, 3-C turns into nothing.

Uni+/Uni​

First of all: Uni+ is unsubstantiated garbage because I do NOT see any semblance of time being affected here. cool? cool.

as for Uni... the dryads literally contradict Cthulhu's Uni thing in the same sentence. You don't threaten the fabric of the universe then have the power of the universe used on you so badly you are forced into a retreat and have massive chunks of yourself blown out of you! Seriously, this is not a feat, it's an anti-feat.

Overall: With how loose shit is right now, 3-C is fine, 3-A or Low 2-C is NOT.

 

[DaReaperMan]

You don't need an admin at all just 2 staff votes is fine

Im confused what are we needing more people for? We already determined the values and have votes

Zero evaluating staff have commented here.

 

[ObberGobb]

as for Uni... the dryads literally contradict Cthulhu's Uni thing in the same sentence. You don't threaten the fabric of the universe then have the power of the universe used on you so badly you are forced into a retreat and have massive chunks of yourself blown out of you! Seriously, this is not a feat, it's an anti-feat.

What is wrong with that? The just means that every single Dryad working together is above Cthulhu. That's not an anti-feat feat for Universe level, that just means the combined power of the Dryads is also Universe level.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

You don't need an admin at all just 2 staff votes is fine

Tier 2 and above needs an admin vote

Anyways if I remember I’ll check this thread out later got other work I have to do before that though

 

[DaReaperMan]

What is wrong with that? The just means that every single Dryad working together is above Cthulhu. That's not an anti-feat feat for Universe level, that just means the combined power of the Dryads is also Universe level.

Missing the point. Cthulhu threatens the fabric of the universe, yes? Well, the instant the actual power of the universe is used on Cthulhu it is forced to run and gets severely injured to the point where it should have immortality type 2 for surviving that shit!

Either it's just AP that doesn't scale to it's Durability or Striking Strength, or it just is not a feat for it.

 

[Dalesean027]

Tier 2 and above needs an admin vote

Anyways if I remember I’ll check this thread out later got other work I have to do before that though

Oh then that rule does not always get followed

 

[Lou_change]

First despite the crt still saying 3-C is was agreed to instead scale the pillars to the energy of every star in the system which was between 5-A or High 5-A.

Second the dryads used their connection to the planet, not the power of universe.

 

[Dalesean027]

First despite the crt still saying 3-C is was agreed to instead scale the pillars to the energy of every star in the system which was between 5-A or High 5-A.

Second the dryads used their connection to the planet, not the power of universe.

The 5-A statement is just support tbh, the main thing accepted is low 2-C

Second is a fallacy
Just because they use their connection to the planet to battle him doesn't mean the power is only planet level

Missing the point. Cthulhu threatens the fabric of the universe, yes? Well, the instant the actual power of the universe is used on Cthulhu it is forced to run and gets severely injured to the point where it should have immortality type 2 for surviving that shit!

Either it's just AP that doesn't scale to it's Durability or Striking Strength, or it just is not a feat for it.

Yeah idk where you're logic is here. You can be universe level and be threatened by another universe level??

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah idk where you're logic is here. You can be universe level and be threatened by another universe level??

Cthulhu was crippled. by people using the power of the universe on him.

hey Dalesean, do you scale to something that blows your arm off? That's basically what happened here.

 

[Lou_change]

Second is a fallacy
Just because they use their connection to the planet to battle him doesn't mean the power is only planet level

I wasn't trying to claim that. It is a magic sentient planet, described as having unprecedented potential. He was arguing off an incorrect assumption and I offered clarification. I disagreed with you a few times and now you seem to just be belittling me.

 

[Dalesean027]

I wasn't trying to claim that. It is a magic sentient planet, described as having unprecedented potential. He was arguing off an incorrect assumption and I offered clarification. I disagreed with you a few times and now you seem to just be belittling me.

How did I belittle you with anything I've said? I literally did the same as you and gave clarification

Cthulhu was crippled. by people using the power of the universe on him.

hey Dalesean, do you scale to something that blows your arm off? That's basically what happened here.

1. Its never said they use the "power of the universe" to defeat him
2. chill with the condescending tone especially when the core of your argument is blatantly wrong

 

[Dalesean027]

I wasn't trying to claim that. It is a magic sentient planet, described as having unprecedented potential. He was arguing off an incorrect assumption and I offered clarification.

Anyways last part aside, I did misunderstand a bit I'll admit so my bad there. I did read what you said as because their power comes from the connection to planet its only planet level.

I do agree that he had the incorrect assumption so you were right in what ya said there, we were saying the same thing

 

[Lou_change]

I am probably just recalling stuff with a bad faith interpretation because I happen to be annoyed at the moment, by the fact our last few interactions have involved you simply assuming I am wrong and not elaborating. Admittedly I have almost certainly been neglecting to consider my own failures in expressing my ideas.

 

[DaReaperMan]

How did I belittle you with anything I've said? I literally did the same as you and gave clarification

This is correct, actually, bro is behaving more than either of us Lou lol

1. Its never said they use the "power of the universe" to defeat him

Okay, they use their connection to the planet to beat a universal threat, that's even worse for Uni being legit. At least for 5-B we can say that the shown feat goes above the feat we have 0 context on thus making Shown source>Stated source comes into play and slam dunks that shit into the trash can, but here we have two stated feats competing with each other.

2. chill with the condescending tone especially when the core of your argument is blatantly wrong

And the core of your argument (At least by the OP) is Uni+ with a feat that doesn't even bring up or mention time. I might be nicer if we weren't making that jump in logic.

To stop this argument from turning into the 15 page argument that goes in circles, my vote is for 3-C, likely 3-A (As one is a feat and one is an anti-feat, split 50/50) If we did it my way and started using less shaky feats, we'd go 8-B/8-A, 7-B, and 5-B for the various boss tiers. But since we still use 5-C the 3-C statement is on comparable terms to that.

(Also, apologies for the condescending shit, I should probably monitor my tone more)

 

[Dalesean027]

Okay, they use their connection to the planet to beat a universal threat, that's even worse for Uni being legit. At least for 5-B we can say that the shown feat goes above the feat we have 0 context on thus making Shown source>Stated source comes into play and slam dunks that shit into the trash can, but here we have two stated feats competing with each other.

This isn't a planet level statement, its just saying the dryads civilization used their connection to their world to defeat him, their world being a medium for their powers doesn't denote the potency of their abilities or act as an anti-feat, their power just relies on them having a connection to their world.

And the core of your argument (At least by the OP) is Uni+ with a feat that doesn't even bring up or mention time. I might be nicer if we weren't making that jump in

Doesn't need a timeframe when you're erasing space-time, threatening the fabric of the universe is enough.

 

[DaReaperMan]

This isn't a planet level statement, its just saying the dryads civilization used their connection to their world to defeat him, their world being a medium for their powers doesn't denote the potency of their abilities or act as an anti-feat, their power just relies on them having a connection to their world.

Different interpretations, I suppose.

Doesn't need a timeframe when you're erasing space-time, threatening the fabric of the universe is enough.

Not time as in time frame, but time as in the concept. Fabric of the universe can easily just be space.

 

[Lou_change]

And the core of your argument (At least by the OP) is Uni+ with a feat that doesn't even bring up or mention time. I might be nicer if we weren't making that jump in logic.

Fabric of Terraria is implied to refer to the fabric of the universe (it could technically refer to just the whole planet since terraria is seemingly used for the planet and universe, but that definition of fabric is considered archaic). The he fabric of the universe is generally used as a way to refer space-time.

 

[Dalesean027]

Not time as in time frame, but time as in the concept. Fabric of the universe can easily just be space

I'd argue the common interpretation of that would be space time but regardless should still be baseline 3-A

 

[MaybeWantsToEdit]

Cthulhu was crippled. by people using the power of the universe on him.

hey Dalesean, do you scale to something that blows your arm off? That's basically what happened here.

It was a war/fight that happened hundreds of years ago. It wasn't like a shotgun blasting your limbs off. After an extended fight and getting worn down you can eventually get gored by someone of similar AP. It happens irl (though to a lesser extent). While Moon Lord lost eyes, his spine, skull and brain, he also managed to dwindle an entire civilization of magical people down to 1 lone member. They're similar in power.

Also destroying space inherently involves destroying the time in there. Space and time are directly interwoven, it's why it's called space-time

 

[OrangeFR]

Bump

 

[Dalesean027]

Tier 2 and above needs an admin vote

Anyways if I remember I’ll check this thread out later got other work I have to do before that though

Btw whats your vote here?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Btw whats your vote here?

NGL forgot about this thread entirely

Anyways 3-C seems fine not really sure about 3-A or Low 2-C so I'll just stay neutral on those

 

[MaybeWantsToEdit]

So.

Moon Lord threatened the fabric of the universe (pretty clear that it's referring to that)

Destroying the space also requires the destruction of the time. Space-time. 4-D. Otherwise what "fabric" would it be referring to.

The Dryads used their connection to a fictional sentient fantastical planet to charge their power. The "energy" of a planet isn't inherently Planet level however, that depends on the source of energy from the planet (KE, fuel, etc). The Dryads used whatever power here, to use their powers to somehow physically exert force to tear off the parts of Moon Lord. We know the Dryad's power in-game is magical in nature (literally).

Moon Lord once you fight him is at full power, since the lore explicitly states what parts the Dryads tore out from him when he was stated to destroy the fabric of the universe, and once you fight him, all those parts of him were healed back, meaning he's back at full power.

Endgame Terrarian beats Moon Lord. Universe level+

Rather straightforward.

 

[GMB253]

I remember the old speed and KE calcs were removed because the meteor staff and other weapons that created the meteors and lightning were magic and not naturally occurring. But the current calcs are made using a post-plantera gun that converts regular bullets into the steampunker's high velocity bullets, and treats it like a generic real life sniper rifle and generic bullets. Ever since the 1.4 update, we can see the actual meteors falling from the sky in the background, and on top of that there's naturally occurring lightning in the teasers for 1.5. Maybe we could do something with those, since the speed section seems kind of outdated?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I remember the old speed and KE calcs were removed because the meteor staff and other weapons that created the meteors and lightning were magic and not naturally occurring. But the current calcs are made using a post-plantera gun that converts regular bullets into the steampunker's high velocity bullets, and treats it like a generic real life sniper rifle and bullets. Ever since the 1.4 update, we can see the actual meteors falling from the sky in the background, and on top of that there's naturally occurring lightning in the teasers for 1.5. Maybe we could do something with those, since the speed section seems kind of outdated?

We'll have to wait for 1.5, honestly.




Especially if the Master Ninja Gear can dodge them...

 

[GMB253]

We'll have to wait for 1.5, honestly.




Especially if the Master Ninja Gear can dodge them...

Well the master ninja gear and its downgrade can dodge the last prism, a weapon that fires multiple light rays that converge into a single white beam, at point blank range.

And also, I meant 1.4.5, not 1.5. My bad.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Well the master ninja gear and its downgrade can dodge the last prism, a weapon that fires multiple light rays that converge into a single white beam, at point blank range.

And also, I meant 1.4.5, not 1.5. My bad.

Wait so is that relativistic or ftl speed? If so, then yay : )

 

[GMB253]

Wait so is that relativistic or ftl speed? If so, then yay : )

At least sub-relativistic, I'm not sure about FTL though

 

[AyOgUyS]

At least sub-relativistic, I'm not sure about FTL though

We would need a calc for that i suppose

 

[DMUA]

The tooltip for the Nebula Fragment states that it contains the power of a whole galaxy,

The power of a galaxy isn't the innate power to destroy it, even if you took this 100% literally. Similarly you can't take "Fury of the universe" as 3-A since it's not only figurative in nature, but given it's association to solar fragments would probably only scale to the power of stars (And the total mass energy of the entire universe is 4-A, much less only the luminosity of stars and such)

Yes, in the paragraph before. However, the lore uses the word "Terraria" to refer to the universe as well. The statement "fabric of Terraria" makes very little sense if said in the context of the planet. It is far more likely referring to the universe of Terraria ("Fabric of the Earth" compared to the "fabric of the universe/reality"). Additionally, the lore images are in the perspective of an observing historian, and so they use the word "seemingly" when talking about Moon Lord's plan, and given they live on the planet that is being endangered, it makes sense for them to assume their planet is the one being targeted.

In this process, countless living worlds were created and now exist within the Terraria universe. Each world of Terraria is a sentient being that knows all that goes on and can feel the thoughts of all living creatures.

The terraria "Universe" is mentioned as a separate concept to each "World". When you consider that (And you yourself mentioning it's from the perspective of an observing historian) I don't think it's strong evidence to take an offhand statement about threatening the fabric of reality as Moon Lord being able to destroy the universe, especially when he just kinda doesn't use his power to do that mid fight, nor does this really support taking another figurative statement totally literally.

So first thing's first, we have the Celestial Towers at Brown Dwarf level for moving moons very fast. But as you can see, even in the comments of the calc, those aren't moons, they are planets. The Wiki says this, and this comes from an official developer changelog.

This could justify a recalc to make it higher, that much I'd be fine with.

 

[DMUA]

Well the master ninja gear and its downgrade can dodge the last prism, a weapon that fires multiple light rays that converge into a single white beam, at point blank range.

And also, I meant 1.4.5, not 1.5. My bad.

This is an attack from a magic artifact that doesn't really display any lightlike properties, even totally failing to give a special interaction to glass or water blocks

I remember the old speed and KE calcs were removed because the meteor staff and other weapons that created the meteors and lightning were magic and not naturally occurring. But the current calcs are made using a post-plantera gun that converts regular bullets into the steampunker's high velocity bullets, and treats it like a generic real life sniper rifle and generic bullets. Ever since the 1.4 update, we can see the actual meteors falling from the sky in the background, and on top of that there's naturally occurring lightning in the teasers for 1.5. Maybe we could do something with those, since the speed section seems kind of outdated?

Yeah it's definitely not good as done now, personally I'd probably use the MPH gauge for early game and then the electrical attacks from the martian attack? I dunno, it's worth looking into better alternatives

 

[Dalesean027]

The terraria "Universe" is mentioned as a separate concept to each "World". When you consider that (And you yourself mentioning it's from the perspective of an observing historian) I don't think it's strong evidence to take an offhand statement about threatening the fabric of reality as Moon Lord being able to destroy the universe

I mean the statements are pretty blatant, destroy the fabric of terraria (the universe), they do say a few times that terraria is in peril or at risk, you don't think all auch statements together doesn't even qualify as a possibly 3-A or low 2-C

 

[DMUA]

I can't think of multiple times beyond this one statement, and it's not really a direct "They have a power that allows them to blow up the universe", just a vague idea they threaten the fabric of Terraria (Which is also a planet). What even is that fabric, is it spacetime itself? If they're powerful enough to just hit like that why don't they just do it flat out, why bother with Minions? Are them generally conquering with their armies the actual issue rather than a matter of strength, do they have some general corrupting influence?

Many questions that won't have a clear answer because it really is just 5 pages that got slapped onto a game that didn't really need a lore explanation

 

[Dalesean027]

I can't think of multiple times beyond this one statement, and it's not really a direct "They have a power that allows them to blow up the universe", just a vague idea they threaten the fabric of Terraria (Which is also a planet). What even is that fabric, is it spacetime itself? If they're powerful enough to just hit like that why don't they just do it flat out, why bother with Minions? Are them generally conquering with their armies the actual issue rather than a matter of strength, do they have some general corrupting influence?

Not sure where you're getting it that terraria is also the planet, they explicitly use terraria when referring to the universe alone

In this scan they refer to the universe as the "world of terraria" and the "terraria universe" quite blatantly and even talk about other planets in the universe saying "Each world of terraria" which further suggest you're dealing with a structure larger than the size of multiple planets at worst

like they just outright say "Each world of Terraria" so your world would just one of said worlds in Terraria, again it just is clearly implicating that terraria itself would be a structure higher than just a planet so when the say the "Terraria universe" that's just pretty concretely imo at least what they're going for with that


they don't ever say Terraria in this lore when referencing the world, only for the universe or say it in a way that clearly implies a higher structure than just a planet so saying threaten the fabric of terraria is synonymous with saying threatening the fabric of the universe a common statement made in fiction in reference to universal destruction.

 

[GMB253]

This is an attack from a magic artifact that doesn't really display any lightlike properties, even totally failing to give a special interaction to glass or water blocks

Yeah it's definitely not good as done now, personally I'd probably use the MPH gauge for early game and then the electrical attacks from the martian attack? I dunno, it's worth looking into better alternatives

It's still reasonably realistic though, right? It's referred to as a rainbow in its tooltip and its multiple different colored beams of light that travel in a straight line, that refract to combine into a single white beam. And it's a hitscan rather than just a projectile.

The mph gauge might be good for differentiating between travel/flight speed and reaction/combat speed