Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[Ghostimuscrime]

One may even be able to goon using the wank statements previously used for ten tails

Like calling him a god and mentioning how he reshaped lands to glaze the Juubi and ensure the characters take him seriously (like if he didn’t scale to that version of himself why would you gauge his current threat level using old feats, the only possible explanation is that this Juubi likely has the same tiering as the prime one)

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I know about this lol
I even calced how powerful TBBs need to be to nuke a single one and it gave borderline 5C values consistently

Only issue is pain is talking about ten tails with Kurama and Gyuki in it
don’t think him being surprised proves otherwise since he’d know by lore reasons what the power of the Juubi was rather than individual bijuu tiering

Hmmmm perhaps, although the known lore seems to be that the Juubi's power was linearly split into 9 pieces, and even Kurama seemed to think this

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Hmmmm perhaps, although the known lore seems to be that the Juubi's power was linearly split into 9 pieces, and even Kurama seemed to think this

You can be split up without each bijuu having equal chakra

Chakra = Power
We know Kurama is stronger than a lot of them combined so that doesn’t work


The last scan straight up sh*ts on the whole attempt, he thinks it’s easier to beat this version than that one and he also thinks he and Gyuki have the most chakra
So tough luck

 

[MinatoSparkle]

You can be split up without each bijuu having equal chakra

Chakra = Power
We know Kurama is stronger than a lot of them combined so that doesn’t work

That's...not what I said? Linearly =/= equally, all I'm saying is that Pain wasn't necessarily thinking Juubi>9 Bijuu's added power

The last scan straight up sh*ts on the whole attempt, he thinks it’s easier to beat this version than that one and he also thinks he and Gyuki have the most chakra
So tough luck

Doesn't shit on Pain's statement at all though, it supports it if anything.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Here’s an idea


War arc Juubi is 30% of its prime, 9 bijuus = 100%

Assume Bee is 10%
Bijuu 1-7 is 30%
50% Kurama is also 30%

So the total sections are
1-7 bijuu = 30
100% Kurama = 60
Bee = 10

Total 100

Since Juubi lacked full on bee and Kurama it makes sense for him to be 30% of whatever value his prime gets

This is also consistent with how Kurama a mere bijuu allows Naruto to fight with someone with the power of the feared ten tails
While you’ll miss out on 5C it’ll land you really REALLY high into H6A

That's...not what I said? Linearly =/= equally, all I'm saying is that Pain wasn't necessarily thinking Juubi>9 Bijuu's added power

Doesn't shit on Pain's statement at all though, it supports it if anything.

I don’t follow, are you suggesting downscaling Juubi feats to the individual bijuu?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This is kind of like what I was saying, downscaling from vaporizing a country

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I don’t follow, are you suggesting downscaling Juubi feats to the individual bijuu?

Not the Juubi's actual feats since in reality he is exponentially stronger than the Bijuu combined, but just downscaling them from Pain's statement that the total power of all 9 Bijuu can vaporize a country.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Not the Juubi's actual feats since in reality he is exponentially stronger than the Bijuu combined, but just downscaling them from Pain's statement that the total power of all 9 Bijuu can vaporize a country.

OHHH
okay okay
then it’s a matter of interpretation that
If he thought it’s a direct addition then the bijuus will be given divided versions of that giant feat, that’s actually genius

 

[MinatoSparkle]

OHHH
okay okay
then it’s a matter of interpretation that
If he thought it’s a direct addition then the bijuus will be given divided versions of that giant feat, that’s actually genius

Well I don't think it's fool proof but that's what I was saying the whole time

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Well I don't think it's fool proof but that's what I was saying the whole time

upon further thinking I gotta disagree, later lore and events contradict that, pain not knowing matters little since we know little of his info source, he could just have known that oh yeah prime juubi did so and so feats so I believe the version I shared is a more safer way to downscale that feat to allow juubito to hit multi cont ranges

 

[MinatoSparkle]

upon further thinking I gotta disagree, later lore and events contradict that, pain not knowing matters little since we know little of his info source, he could just have known that oh yeah prime juubi did so and so feats so I believe the version I shared is a more safer way to downscale that feat to allow juubito to hit multi cont ranges

the known lore seems to be that the Juubi's power was linearly split into 9 pieces, and even Kurama seemed to think this

Also Kurama even after the Bijuu level upgrade will be rated >>Bijuus 1-8 combined, so that method doesn't really work unless you plan to debunk that (and I don't think you can just say Juubito scales to 32/229ths of the FP Juubi, cause that would definitely be calc stacking, if in a reverse fashion of how it's usually used)

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Also Kurama even after the Bijuu level upgrade will be rated >>Bijuus 1-8 combined, so that method doesn't really work unless you plan to debunk that (and I don't think you can just say Juubito scales to 32/229ths of the FP Juubi, cause that would definitely be calc stacking, if in a reverse fashion of how it's usually used)

oh really? can i see the crt or the profile where its written that hes superior to all of them?

that would ruin the equation, as for the calc stack, is it really a calc stack? we see them clash equally with the bijuubombs, there's no calc to make here, just inference via feats

 

[MinatoSparkle]

oh really? can i see the crt or the profile where its written that hes superior to all of them?

He's rated 196.7 teratons, while the Bijuu are currently 4 gigatons and will still only be individually 4 teratons after Arc's CRT

that would ruin the equation, as for the calc stack, is it really a calc stack? we see them clash equally with the bijuubombs, there's no calc to make here, just inference via feats

50% Kurama is currently rated as far superior to initial KCM2 Naruto due to imperfect control of Kurama's power.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

He's rated 196.7 teratons, while the Bijuu are currently 4 gigatons and will still only be individually 4 teratons after Arc's CRT

50% Kurama is currently rated as far superior to initial KCM2 Naruto due to imperfect control of Kurama's power.

noo this wont do, crossverse tiers =/= inverse tiers

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

btw how did Bijuus get mid godly regen


I get mind and body, but soul?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

noo this wont do, crossverse tiers =/= inverse tiers

This is the current inverse scaling chain: 50% Kurama = MKCM2 Naruto>2nd form Juubi>>1st form Juubi>>KCM2 Naruto = 5x Bijuu level
(I disagree with this on various levels but that's how it's accepted atm)

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

This is the current inverse scaling chain: 50% Kurama = MKCM2 Naruto>2nd form Juubi>>1st form Juubi>>KCM2 Naruto = 5x Bijuu level
(I disagree with this on various levels but that's how it's accepted atm)

tbh, kcm2 and mkcm2 are more or less the same thing ap wise
he just gets better at manipulating and transmission of bijuu chakra, that is what ch616 and 617 say, but power increases? never stated so I'd dismiss that


....is my personal view in these things
could you remind me of what feat first form juubi had above kcm2? I know it flicked away bee's TBB

 

[MinatoSparkle]

tbh, kcm2 and mkcm2 are more or less the same thing ap wise
he just gets better at manipulating and transmission of bijuu chakra, that is what ch616 and 617 say, but power increases? never stated so I'd dismiss that


....is my personal view in these things
could you remind me of what feat first form juubi had above kcm2? I know it flicked away bee's TBB

 

[Samlex1234]

Granting that Momoshiki was the cause (I haven't read the novel, nor have I read the scans in a long ass while), why would this scale to any of his attacks? All you would get from this is some level of environmental destruction (4-B overtime or whatever, tmk the star didn't go supernova immediately if it all, it was just stated to be near the end of its life).

According to the wiki, the GBE of the Sun is “5.693E+41 J or 136.066 Quettatons of TNT”. If we are going by this, to force a star like our Sun into its very final red giant phase, you must at the very least overcome the gravitational binding force holding the outer layers to the core, requiring about 10–20% of its total gravitational binding energy which is at least 5.7 x10^40 J to 1.1 X 10^41 J Low star level.

If it was the initial translation we got that mentioned synchrotron radiation specifically it would mean that the star is at least a massive star that went supernova or in its very final stage of red supergiant phase which is 4b or 4b over time. I don't agree with this interpretation.

Personally, I believe this feat is at least Low Star Level, as it required overcoming the gravitational binding energy holding the Sun's outer layers to its core. Since Momoshiki accomplished this in his base form, it stands to reason that his Ap in his fused state, and specifically his final attack against Boruto which is stated to be his greatest technique ever would surpass the power of the technique used to achieve this feat in base.

 

[Sasukesama0492]

regen

Resurrection

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

well these def are feats, I think we can explain it having some superiority by understanding it not only has 1-7 bijuus but gyukis tail and kuramas bits and pieces
it being stronger inherently shouldnt in theory contradict the chain I listed as he is stronger not equal, kurama lets us know he can give it a try implying there's some level of relativity and the feat where he tanks the tbb should add more credence to it (i think that's him tanking it i could be wrong)

off topic but first form was so easily the better design kishi shoulda never changed it into sth else

Resurrection

my bad, where did soul come from tho?

Personally, I believe this feat is at least Low Star Level, as it required overcoming the gravitational binding energy holding the Sun's outer layers to its core. =

smart boi

 

[MinatoSparkle]

well these def are feats, I think we can explain it having some superiority by understanding it not only has 1-7 bijuus but gyukis tail and kuramas bits and pieces
it being stronger inherently shouldnt in theory contradict the chain I listed as he is stronger not equal, kurama lets us know he can give it a try implying there's some level of relativity and the feat where he tanks the tbb should add more credence to it (i think that's him tanking it i could be wrong)

His Kurama Avatar was significantly damaged despite him being fully wrapped up and the Juubi's Bijuudama being weakened by Naruto and Bee's Bijuudamas

off topic but first form was so easily the better design kishi shoulda never changed it into sth else

Perhaps

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

His Kurama Avatar was significantly damaged despite him being fully wrapped up and the Juubi's Bijuudama being weakened by Naruto and Bee's Bijuudamas

relative characters damage each other significantly, him withstanding it and being left with his body is what was impressive to me

juubi tanking both naruto and bees charged tbbs is a strong point ill admit

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Personally, I believe this feat is at least Low Star Level, as it required overcoming the gravitational binding energy holding the Sun's outer layers to its core. Since Momoshiki accomplished this in his base form, it stands to reason that his Ap in his fused state, and specifically his final attack against Boruto which is stated to be his greatest technique ever would surpass the power of the technique used to achieve this feat in base.

Can you provide the scan for it being his strongest attack?

 

[Nierre]

if that Rasengan is actually stated to be his strongest attack that'd be based as hell......

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

According to the wiki, the GBE of the Sun is “5.693E+41 J or 136.066 Quettatons of TNT”. If we are going by this, to force a star like our Sun into its very final red giant phase, you must at the very least overcome the gravitational binding force holding the outer layers to the core, requiring about 10–20% of its total gravitational binding energy which is at least 5.7 x10^40 J to 1.1 X 10^41 J Low star level.

If it was the initial translation we got that mentioned synchrotron radiation specifically it would mean that the star is at least a massive star that went supernova or in its very final stage of red supergiant phase which is 4b or 4b over time. I don't agree with this interpretation.

Personally, I believe this feat is at least Low Star Level, as it required overcoming the gravitational binding energy holding the Sun's outer layers to its core. Since Momoshiki accomplished this in his base form, it stands to reason that his Ap in his fused state, and specifically his final attack against Boruto which is stated to be his greatest technique ever would surpass the power of the technique used to achieve this feat in base.

Ok wait, Have I been downplaying a good feat?

I always thought the star stuff was mistranslated and meant to be earth and thus never pursued it once

 

[Samlex1234]

Can you provide the scan for it being his strongest attack?

Nierre might have the original kanji if you need. However this english translation is what we have been using so far.

Full text of "NOVEL: Boruto Naruto the Movie"

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Nierre might have the original kanji if you need. However this english translation is what we have been using so far.

Full text of "NOVEL: Boruto Naruto the Movie"

Naw I’m sure this translation is fine.

Ig my next question would be, why does this mean it has more AP than a non-combat applicable environmental destruction technique, especially one in which we have no idea what its mechanics are (like does he pump energy into the star, does the star have a mythical life force akin to planets that can be drained, does he set off a chain reaction, etc)?

 

[GTsek]

Is the movie novel considered canon for the main series profiles?

 

[Sasukesama0492]

my bad, where did soul come from tho?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

relative characters damage each other significantly, him withstanding it and being left with his body is what was impressive to me

I think the fact that the Juubidama had to go through 5 KCM2 Bijuudamas first makes it much less impressive

juubi tanking both naruto and bees charged tbbs is a strong point ill admit

And he damaged himself with his Bijuudamas

 

[GTsek]

According to the wiki, the GBE of the Sun is “5.693E+41 J or 136.066 Quettatons of TNT”. If we are going by this, to force a star like our Sun into its very final red giant phase, you must at the very least overcome the gravitational binding force holding the outer layers to the core, requiring about 10–20% of its total gravitational binding energy which is at least 5.7 x10^40 J to 1.1 X 10^41 J Low star level.

If it was the initial translation we got that mentioned synchrotron radiation specifically it would mean that the star is at least a massive star that went supernova or in its very final stage of red supergiant phase which is 4b or 4b over time. I don't agree with this interpretation.

Personally, I believe this feat is at least Low Star Level, as it required overcoming the gravitational binding energy holding the Sun's outer layers to its core. Since Momoshiki accomplished this in his base form, it stands to reason that his Ap in his fused state, and specifically his final attack against Boruto which is stated to be his greatest technique ever would surpass the power of the technique used to achieve this feat in base.

If I'm not mistaken, it's only mentioned that Momoshiki and Kinshiki were on a planet, cultivating shinjus, and it is mentioned that this planet is being bombarded by synchrotron radiation, In other words, there was a neutral star nearby, but how can we prove that Momoshiki did something to that star?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Naw I’m sure this translation is fine.

Ig my next question would be, why does this mean it has more AP than a non-combat applicable environmental destruction technique, especially one in which we have no idea what its mechanics are (like does he pump energy into the star, does the star have a mythical life force akin to planets that can be drained, does he set off a chain reaction, etc)?

What non combative technique would he use?

If those cost a certain amount of chakra to perform regardless why not use that or greater amounts in his combat?

I’m not sold on it but assuming he’s right I doubt your contentions are valid

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Thanks

 

[Samlex1234]

Naw I’m sure this translation is fine.

Ig my next question would be, why does this mean it has more AP than a non-combat applicable environmental destruction technique, especially one in which we have no idea what its mechanics are (like does he pump energy into the star, does the star have a mythical life force akin to planets that can be drained, does he set off a chain reaction, etc)

To be honest, I don’t fully understand the mechanics behind how he achieved the feat. However, based on what we know, it’s clear that at the very least, he must have overcome the gravitational binding force (GBF) holding the Sun’s outer layers to its core. As you’re likely aware, the GBF is what keeps a star stable, so draining the star’s energy is definitely out of the picture.

While it’s theoretically possible to initiate a chain reaction, such a process cannot bypass the GBF. Given how unnatural this feat is bypassing processes that naturally take millions to billions of years you would still need to overwhelm the GBF first. Without overcoming the GBF, any attempt to set up a chain reaction would fail. Once the GBF is overcome, a chain reaction could be initiated, potentially leading to the Sun’s collapse and eventual transition into a white dwarf.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Naruto/Boruto God Tiers:

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

What non combative technique would he use?

If those cost a certain amount of chakra to perform regardless why not use that or greater amounts in his combat?

I’m not sold on it but assuming he’s right I doubt your contentions are valid

To be honest, I don’t fully understand the mechanics behind how he achieved the feat. However, based on what we know, it’s clear that at the very least, he must have overcome the gravitational binding force (GBF) holding the Sun’s outer layers to its core. As you’re likely aware, the GBF is what keeps a star stable, so draining the star’s energy is definitely out of the picture.

While it’s theoretically possible to initiate a chain reaction, such a process cannot bypass the GBF. Given how unnatural this feat is bypassing processes that naturally take millions to billions of years you would still need to overwhelm the GBF first. Without overcoming the GBF, any attempt to set up a chain reaction would fail. Once the GBF is overcome, a chain reaction could be initiated, potentially leading to the Sun’s collapse and eventual transition into a white dwarf.

Right so we all agree that there is a complete ambiguity upon how he achieved the feat. Thus it is the less assumptive claim to remain agnostic as to how he did it, rather than assert he did so in some way that scales to AP. Which is the point I was getting at. In which case the feat is unknown in terms of how it scales to Momoshiki.

 

[Samlex1234]

If I'm not mistaken, it's only mentioned that Momoshiki and Kinshiki were on a planet, cultivating shinjus, and it is mentioned that this planet is being bombarded by synchrotron radiation, In other words, there was a neutral star nearby, but how can we prove that Momoshiki did something to that star?

You are mistaken indeed. It is literally called a sun and it is not a neutral star. We even see upfront visual evidence, as it bombard the planet with radiation. If you want to get my argument for Momoshiki causing it, check page 1129.

Take a look at the sun, it was not just a random star that was far away.

 

[Samlex1234]

Right so we all agree that there is a complete ambiguity upon how he achieved the feat. Thus it is the less assumptive claim to remain agnostic as to how he did it, rather than assert he did so in some way that scales to AP. Which is the point I was getting at. In which case the feat is unknown in terms of how it scales to Momoshiki.

No we all don't completely agree to anything at least I'm not with you on that. My claim is to cause such a feat you need concentrated energy. He did it via an energy-based technique in base, his Rasengan in Fused state is his greatest technique ever thus it is greater than any attack he must have used.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

No we all don't completely agree to anything at least I'm not with you on that. My claim is to cause such a feat you need concentrated energy. He did it via an energy-based technique in base, his Rasengan in Fused state is his greatest technique ever thus it is greater than any attack he must have used.

You don’t need concentrated energy to perform that feat tho. Aging the star would provide the same effect. Manipulating the chemical processes through manipulating physics could provide runaway fusion reactions to the same effect. We know celestial bodies in Naruto possess life energy in addition to their physical energies (kinetic and potential and chemical), so draining its life force could produce the same effect. I can go on and on, but there’s plenty of non-AP related abilities that can bring a star to the end of its life span. Now to clarify I’m NOT making any claim on how Momoshiki did it, since there’s numerous possibilities, none of which explained or given indication of being more likely than the other, I’m remaining agnostic.