• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

The No More Hero Fights The Dragon of Dojima (7-0-5)

Messages
1,055
Reaction score
711
Travis Touchdown (0.639 tons) vs Kazuma Kiryu (0.339 tons)
(8-C keys)
No More Heroes 1 Travis Touchdown and Yakuza 7/Like a Dragon Gaiden Kiryu
Both gain access to all their possible equipment
Speed equalized
Battle takes place in the streets of Kamurocho

Votes:
"Let the bloodshed begin!" - @Lukewoesal007, @Armorchompy, @Lonkitt, @BrackishBrineBroth, @SonicBayo1999, @Arceus0x, @MintyBoi1
"If you want to die, then step up!" -
"Doesn't matter, Uncle Ben. Gene solos both of them." - @KLOL506, @Stillwinston, @Naito-desu, @noninho, @J.J._Chambers
 
Last edited:
Bump. I'll lay out a few arguments to generate discussion.

So, while Travis technically has a higher attack potency, Kiryu massively upscales from his AP feat, and thus the gap between them should he negligible. In regards to speed amps, I believe they should be roughly comparable, as well, given that Kiryu should upscale from Yagami, who was capable of performing this perception/blitzing feat, alongside the effects of Rush style, Heat Eye, and Extreme Heat, and Travis obviously has Dark Step, which does slow down time.

Travis' lifting/grappling strength is far greater than Kiryu's, so any grabs or grapples are going to be extremely one-sided, especially with how common wrestling moves are in Travis fighting style. Travis also has much greater feats of stamina, compared to Kiryu, in addition to his Low-Mid regeneration.

Kiryu has vastly more combat experience than Travis, to the point where he could potentially learn Travis' fighting style from a mere glance, and he might have an edge over Travis' comparable durability with pressure point techniques and Master Bowl.
 
Last edited:
Honestly, uncertain about this. Might be forced to pick inconclusive but from what I can look at, Travis seems to have the edge in versatility judging by his equipment list alone. That being said, I'll wait for more votes.
 
I guess I'll vote Incon fra, but I'll outline what I see from the two

Travis has much higher LS, which will be an issue for Kiryu as Travis does frequently mix grabs in with cqc. That said Kiryu has canonically fought grapplers like Saejima who can ragdoll him and Majima about the place. So one grapple would clue Kiryu in to avoid it from then on.

AP wise they're comparable I'd say, both are better than those who casually tank the feats in question. Skill wise idk much for Travis's side but I think he has fought swordmasters with decades of experience like Death Metal, while Kiryu has also done that and better thanks to not only fighting Majima but also the Amon clan on a frequent basis. Still doubt Kiryu and anything in his arsenal can block a royalty free lightsaber, side from Kiryu's Photon Blade assuming he'd have it.
 
Travis has a pretty big advantage in Dark Step, if he gets a good dodge off (requirements are pretty finicky given it's a gameplay thing, i'd prefer to be conservative in that regard but if it's like, a full body dodge it'd definitely work) he can slow down time, and at that point chop Kiryu to pieces.

I'll post the skill stuff for Travis, he's far from his eventual peak in NMH1 but I disagree that Kiryu stomps him:

A fighter's instincts are honed as they become more powerful, and even low tier combatants in KTP are capable of instinctually sensing or perceiving things they could otherwise not know, capable of sensing others' bloodlust or presence through their instincts, as well as enter a state where their bodies react to issues automatically or they enter a state in which they can fight through sheer instinct. Even at the beginning of the game (Travis grows in skill a LOT through the game, going from greatly inferior to his master Ryu to surpassing him by the fourth to last boss) Travis easily stomped the 11th best assassin in America, Helter Skelter, and would go on to eventually become #1. He can fight while having his perception messed with, learn wrestling moves just by watching matches, and alongside a wide variety of wrestling moves, he knows techniques that allow him to stun foes in a single hit. Has stated that he makes his mind go blank during a fight, fighting with his instincts, which allows him to dodge surprise attacks behind, and can consistently block attacks coming from any direction without needing to turn, even ones that would require extreme precision such as bursts of automatic gunfire. Can complete various assassination gigs which required him to defeat several enemies at once, often under a time limit or heavy limitations to his abilities (Such as being forbidden from using his weapons, or dying in a single hit), including Death Match 100, which pits him up against a hundred enemies at once, also SPS ig; Bad Girl is stated to be moving purely on instinct, and to have the same instincts as her father, Badman (Who even before learning how to fight and kill, was already able to deflect a ball flying at him at deadly speed while both unconscious and blindfolded, and who can fight purely on instinct when using a baseball bat), but more potential, and is a naturally incredibly skilled fighter despite having no training.
"Doesn't matter, Uncle Ben. Gene solos both of them."
This is damn true though
 
Bump.

If Travis is fighting with his instinctive reactions, as detailed by ArmorChompy, then I think this is decidedly an incon, if not slightly in Travis' favor.
 
I'm far more inclined to see Travis as the winner here via Armour's reasonings rather than seeing it as an incon justification. Kiryu's incredibly skilled and he could copy Travis' fighting style, but Travis' instincts and Dark Step are far more likely to result in Kiryu being sliced to pieces. Kiryu can't really counter a technique that slows down time and gives Travis ample opportunity to go to town on his opponents. And yes, I'm aware Kiryu has perception related abilities, but here's the thing. Affecting time itself is gonna win out against Kiryu's abilities that are strictly perception based. Ultimately, most of the ways this fight could play out are in favour of Travis dodging, activating Dark Step, and cutting down Kiryu

Voting Travis
 
Oh yeah. One more thing I should note is that while I won’t deny Kiryu upscales the Yakuza 8-C value by a lot, people haven’t addressed that Travis upscales his own, higher 8-C value decently. The explosion that he scales to from Henry was taken point blank and Henry just tanks it. Simply providing this as food for thought
 
Infinite Wealth, he gets a bunch of RPG stuff like instant death Hax and healing moves
Healing moves aren't bad, but Kiryu's not really gonna be able to exploit his healing items if Travis Dark Steps and cuts him up. The best thing he's got here is the Sacrifice Stone, but I'm 99.9% sure that item doesn't account for the user being chopped into puzzle pieces

There's no instant death hax listed on the profile so idk what thats about
 
Yeah we should do a IW crt, now that Kiryu has finally joined Ichiban in his undiagnosed schizophrenia he might get new shit lol
 
Bump. Honestly, after re-reading the arguments, I do find myself leaning more towards Travis than Kiryu, so I'll be changing my vote.
 
I actually vote for Kiryu.
Armour lists good reasons but besides the instinct part, Kiryu does all of the above by pure skill and more.
He pretty easily reached the level of his master Komaki, learning his combat style which fuses several styles into one.
He learns 2 separate combat style almost entirely only through seeing them in action once. One style is a combo of wrestling styles and one is something similar to kickboxing.
Kiryu is superior to Majima in every way and Majima has been able to go from being a lower rung yakuza to fighting the strongest assassin in asia - Lao Gui. He beat him after sustaining several injuries, fighting a guy on his level and then having to deal with Gui who was a master of several weapons and used a gun in his fight. This level up happened in the span of like a few days and Kiryu has surpassed Majima by leagues since then.
Kiryu has defeated countless professional assassins, took out entire CIA-esque team armed to the teeth with guns and rocket launchers (team as in collectively like 40-50 people), defeated an actual CIA assassin team, beat Andre Richardson who not only had rapid fire guns but was a mass terrorist who infiltrated the CIA and was undetected for years. Kiryu also took out Joji, who was an extremely high tier assassin both in japan and america.
Kiryu has mastered unconventional weapons from other countries by fighting their user once.
He has blocked point blank uzi rapid fire with his bare hands.
His agent style has him use lassos and crazy weapon like explosive cigarettes to throw his opponents off guard.

Upscaling is also important here. Kiryu took that 0.3 ton feat directly and took basically no damage and that was in Yakuza 1. He has gotten stronger and continuously grown more and more skilled, not to mention the fact that Gaiden Kiryu's combat style has been effectively perfected compared to previous games.

Kiryu has his Extreme heat mode which boosts all of his stats including a huge boost to his speed and a nigh-unbreakable defense.
With heat actions he has shown speed great enough to speed blitz opponents.

Finally there are the weapons which include swords, nun chucks, poles and far far more. He also has guns with infinite ammo, shotguns, a naval cannon, grenades, rifles and more. He shoots precisely enough to shoot down helicopter pilots from a moving car, shoot down rockets from rocket launchers flying at him from said helicopter in said moving car and more. He is genuinely insane when it comes to weapon mastery.

Overall, Kiryu may not go full instinct based combat but he has enough skill to make up for it and enough weapons to cause major trouble for anyone daring enough to fight him. He also has tons of health items which give him massive boosts in power and stamina. My vote goes for him.
 
He pretty easily reached the level of his master Komaki, learning his combat style which fuses several styles into one.
He learns 2 separate combat style almost entirely only through seeing them in action once. One style is a combo of wrestling styles and one is something similar to kickboxing.
Kiryu is superior to Majima in every way and Majima has been able to go from being a lower rung yakuza to fighting the strongest assassin in asia - Lao Gui. He beat him after sustaining several injuries, fighting a guy on his level and then having to deal with Gui who was a master of several weapons and used a gun in his fight. This level up happened in the span of like a few days and Kiryu has surpassed Majima by leagues since then.
"Throughout the span of the first No More Heroes Travis went from being far weaker than his master Thunder Ryu to surpassing him, defeating Speed Buster when he couldn't, then even stronger foes. Can instantly learn wrestling moves just from watching VHS tapes of wrestling matches"

"Became the strongest assassin in America despite, by the beginning of the game, his skills mostly coming from pro wrestling training and his only knowledge of sword fighting coming from online correspondences and self-training, though even then his work as an assassin was barely a challenge to him"
Kiryu has defeated countless professional assassins, took out entire CIA-esque team armed to the teeth with guns and rocket launchers (team as in collectively like 40-50 people), defeated an actual CIA assassin team, beat Andre Richardson who not only had rapid fire guns but was a mass terrorist who infiltrated the CIA and was undetected for years. Kiryu also took out Joji, who was an extremely high tier assassin both in japan and america.
Kiryu has mastered unconventional weapons from other countries by fighting their user once.
He has blocked point blank uzi rapid fire with his bare hands.
His agent style has him use lassos and crazy weapon like explosive cigarettes to throw his opponents off guard.
Even though this is just first game Travis I feel like it should be obvious that "defeated countless professional assassins" applies to the guy whose entire thing is killing professional assassins too (there's even a mission where you do fight the military, although honestly "he was undetected for years" is like, completely unrelated to combat skill), he's killed 100 opponents in a single bout himself. Fair enough on the usage of really bizarre weaponry but "lassos and explosives" isn't that out there, basically every boss in NMH one-ups the previous one in weirdness and by the end he's fighting literal superheroes and wizards and by the time of the sequel he's having mecha fights and throwing hands with Jason Voorhees, spy gadgets aren't really something he can't adapt to. Travis is also just generally durable and resilient enough (read: he eats shit really often) to be able to afford himself to take a few big hits without really struggling in the long run.
Upscaling is also important here. Kiryu took that 0.3 ton feat directly and took basically no damage and that was in Yakuza 1. He has gotten stronger and continuously grown more and more skilled, not to mention the fact that Gaiden Kiryu's combat style has been effectively perfected compared to previous games.
He's still inferior to Travis in AP no matter what (especially because Henry, who Travis is equal to, also took the 0.6 tons explosion without any damage), and Travis has a lightsaber that chops even comparable people apart like it's nothing.
Kiryu has his Extreme heat mode which boosts all of his stats including a huge boost to his speed and a nigh-unbreakable defense.
With heat actions he has shown speed great enough to speed blitz opponents.
I would ask for scans of that, but either way Travis can straight up slow down time and 100% just blitz him back. He also has amps of his own, though admittedly the way in which those work is a bit nebulous.
Finally there are the weapons which include swords, nun chucks, poles and far far more. He also has guns with infinite ammo, shotguns, a naval cannon, grenades, rifles and more. He shoots precisely enough to shoot down helicopter pilots from a moving car, shoot down rockets from rocket launchers flying at him from said helicopter in said moving car and more. He is genuinely insane when it comes to weapon mastery.
Guns are basically useless against Travis, doesn't really matter how good his aim is.
Overall, Kiryu may not go full instinct based combat but he has enough skill to make up for it and enough weapons to cause major trouble for anyone daring enough to fight him. He also has tons of health items which give him massive boosts in power and stamina. My vote goes for him.
Healing items are nice but Travis is gonna be chopping his limbs off or at least hacking away flesh if he gets a good hit in, can't heal from that, meanwhile Travis does straight-up have regeneration. Arguing stamina is also not really a good avenue given Travis' feats are arguably superior.
 
"Throughout the span of the first No More Heroes Travis went from being far weaker than his master Thunder Ryu to surpassing him, defeating Speed Buster when he couldn't, then even stronger foes. Can instantly learn wrestling moves just from watching VHS tapes of wrestling matches"
Kiryu does the same thing, he literally just watches action movies and gets inspired to master shit like nun chaku
"Became the strongest assassin in America despite, by the beginning of the game, his skills mostly coming from pro wrestling training and his only knowledge of sword fighting coming from online correspondences and self-training, though even then his work as an assassin was barely a challenge to him"
Kiryu never had a master in Y0 prior to main events. Despite that he took down Kuze who was a pro boxer on his AP level with dozens more years of experience than Kiryu. Kiryu then casually learned two entire styles by seeing the masters fight for like half a minute.
Even though this is just first game Travis I feel like it should be obvious that "defeated countless professional assassins" applies to the guy whose entire thing is killing professional assassins too (there's even a mission where you do fight the military, although honestly "he was undetected for years" is like, completely unrelated to combat skill),
I meant that he was undetected for years because he was a high end pro who could blend in with high skill agents.
he's killed 100 opponents in a single bout himself.
Kiryu has taken out 100 opponents all swarming him with weapons of all sorts like panzerfausts, uzis and general blades and guns. He has taken down hundreds of armed Yakuza with relative ease and full on highest end CIA teams
Fair enough on the usage of really bizarre weaponry but "lassos and explosives" isn't that out there, basically every boss in NMH one-ups the previous one in weirdness and by the end he's fighting literal superheroes and wizards and by the time of the sequel he's having mecha fights and throwing hands with Jason Voorhees, spy gadgets aren't really something he can't adapt to. Travis is also just generally durable and resilient enough (read: he eats shit really often) to be able to afford himself to take a few big hits without really struggling in the long run.
The issue being Kiryi can adapt just as well as he deals with every form of combat throughout his games and I mean literally every form as he fights in arenas where champions, pro killers ect come to fight constantly.
He's still inferior to Travis in AP no matter what (especially because Henry, who Travis is equal to, also took the 0.6 tons explosion without any damage), and Travis has a lightsaber that chops even comparable people apart like it's nothing.
Technically Kiryu kinda has a lightsaber as well, yeah, ik, it's out of place but it is there
I would ask for scans of that, but either way Travis can straight up slow down time and 100% just blitz him back. He also has amps of his own, though admittedly the way in which those work is a bit nebulous.
Will send em later
Guns are basically useless against Travis, doesn't really matter how good his aim is.
That's more so deflection which is based on speed and speed here is equalized. Ig Kiryu still has cannons and explosives which can harm him and those comparable.
Healing items are nice but Travis is gonna be chopping his limbs off or at least hacking away flesh if he gets a good hit in, can't heal from that, meanwhile Travis does straight-up have regeneration. Arguing stamina is also not really a good avenue given Travis' feats are arguably superior.
How Good's the regen?
 
Kiryu does the same thing, he literally just watches action movies and gets inspired to master shit like nun chaku

Kiryu never had a master in Y0 prior to main events. Despite that he took down Kuze who was a pro boxer on his AP level with dozens more years of experience than Kiryu. Kiryu then casually learned two entire styles by seeing the masters fight for like half a minute.

I meant that he was undetected for years because he was a high end pro who could blend in with high skill agents.
Yeah but like, at best this all makes Kiryu even with Travis and Travis has a lot more tools outside of his skill, from instinctive precog to higher AP to his time manip.
Kiryu has taken out 100 opponents all swarming him with weapons of all sorts like panzerfausts, uzis and general blades and guns. He has taken down hundreds of armed Yakuza with relative ease and full on highest end CIA teams

The issue being Kiryi can adapt just as well as he deals with every form of combat throughout his games and I mean literally every form as he fights in arenas where champions, pro killers ect come to fight constantly.
Yeah but like, again, same for Travis.
Technically Kiryu kinda has a lightsaber as well, yeah, ik, it's out of place but it is there
I would really not expect him to be as good with it as Travis is with his.
That's more so deflection which is based on speed and speed here is equalized. Ig Kiryu still has cannons and explosives which can harm him and those comparable.
He's fought plenty of firearm users comparable to him in speed and always come out on top.
How Good's the regen?
It's not amazing, it's pretty slow Low-Mid. It's still a lot better than needing to drink medicine to heal at all.
 
I think I'll concede here cause I didn't consider in the lightsaber. It does throw the whole thing for a loop. If it was a fistfight it'd be a different story but Kiryu would get done in by the saber. I retract my vote for Kiryu sadly.
 
Back
Top