Top 15 Strongest Characters for Every Tier

[Livinmeme]

• Characters only qualify for a tier if they are physically in that tier themselves. Tiers through amps that increases both Attack Potency and Durability also works, and the same applies to tiers via technology.

They don't have a H3-A tier in their SS, that is the problem

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

They don't have a H3-A tier in their SS, that is the problem

Actually, maybe I'm tripping. Idk, I'll wait for Setsuna. I thought it was always AP & Durability, not AP, Durability & Striking Strength.

 

[XDragnoir]

Our rules are getting more and more outdated, it seems.

Can't we have a side thread to discuss the rules? I feel like we've had too many rule related problems recently so it would be nice to a thread where those can be properly discussed and a conclusion reached.

 

[CodeCCLL]

I'm not getting into a "debate" with you again

I would like answers to only two questions, if possible with scans or quotes from Kars's profile.

First one, is there proof that Kars was able to copy stuff of Shuna that consist of information type 2, and works at information type 2, layered laws and concepts type 1?

Second one, why can't a System that uses type 1 concept level 5-layer law manipulation to avoid logical contradictions and takes the precautions I've already mentioned against ultimate skill users who are independent of the System prevent Kars from reproducing Shuna's ability?

He managed to copy D4C which is the heart of an infinite multiverse and this same multiverse dictates that there can only be one D4C.

You realize you need to explain this claim, right? Does this happen through some kind of law manipulation, or is it some sort of temporal constant/singularity?

 

[Lynieryz]

I would like answers to only two questions, if possible with scans or quotes from Kars's profile.

First one, is there proof that Kars was able to copy stuff of Shuna that consist of information type 2, and works at information type 2, layered laws and concepts type 1?

Second one, why can't a System that uses type 1 concept level 5-layer law manipulation to avoid logical contradictions and takes the precautions I've already mentioned against ultimate skill users who are independent of the System prevent Kars from reproducing Shuna's ability?


You realize you need to explain this claim, right? Does this happen through some kind of law manipulation, or is it some sort of temporal constant/singularity?

I'll answer all of this tomorrow.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

This should be rather quick. Everyone from Joshua's Multiverse officially has full access to his High 1-A [Miracle], which has been upgraded to be even more of a Deus Ex Machina. If you're interested in how, read below.

Spoiler

• This grants them every type of Accelerated Development, effectively acting as a Deus Ex Machina that enables them to overcome any situation. It achieves this by altering what limits do and do not exist, making them more powerful by the second, allowing them to surpass the impossible, creating new options that never existed before, or even giving things entirely new beginnings and ends.
• They get Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation that allows their Miracle, whatever form it takes, to destroy preexisting concepts that get in the way.
• They are turned into the Protagonist, which nullifies other forms of Plot Manipulation. This means that any attempts to ensure a specific plot turns out against them, including ending their story, won't work.
• Additionally, they gain Fate Manipulation, allowing them to make their own futures, and their destinies cannot be controlled in any way.
• Lastly, the Miracle rules over stuff like universal principles and probabilities. So it can do stuff like ensuring a perfect ending or allowing it's user to defeat a powerful enemy in a single try.

• Alright, so #1 for 5-B, High 4-C & 3-A should just be changed to Characters from Yin Tian Shen Yin since there are

• multiple

no physically 5B

• aside

not physically High 4C

• from

actually 5B physically

• Joshua now.

actually High 4C and 5B

• #1 for High 3-A goes to Characters in Yin Tian Shen Yin as well, namely, the Ultimate Sublimator Collective, Imperator Amos & Joshua.
  • I don't think I need to explain Joshua at this point. But as for the other two, the whole concept behind their 2nd Keys is that they are smurfs. They have 1-A levels of control over themselves. So, if they make themselves invulnerable, it's to a 1-A degree, and if they want to counter some ability used against them, they can either nullify it, redirect it, transfer the damage, or just take the attack's energy, amp it by infinity and send it back, again to a 1-A degree. If you want the full memo of what they can do, check it out.

USB is not physically High 3A. Amos has Low 1A durability

• #2 for Low 2-C can go to the Ultimate Sublimator Collective.
  • Same reasons as above.

same

• #1 for 2-B can also go to the Ultimate Sublimator Collective.
  • Technically they're a Universe, but also a Multiverse, it's weird.

same

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'd argue only AP/SS properly matters for being physically in the tier, Durability probably shouldn't count all things considered, there's nothing outlining it.

It's kind of like arguing the Notable Pokémon trainers should only apply to their Durability tier-- oh right none of them scale to their Durability in SS.

Pick either SS or Dura to focus on. Not both.

 

[Eseseso]

USB is not physically High 3A. Amos has Low 1A durability

Isn't Stikua on the 2-B and 2-A lists despite his Low 1-A durability?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

If AP/SS and Durability all have to be the same Tier, then there's a lot of profiles on this list that need to go.

 

[CodeCCLL]

If AP/SS and Durability all have to be the same Tier, then there's a lot of profiles on this list that need to go.

Then they should go too.

These are the rules, otherwise the entire list may need to be redone.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Everyone listed below should be removed.

---

Spoiler: Removal/Change List

• Varies
  
  • Feedback only has Varies in AP & SS, not Durability.
  • Twin Peaks Fire Man has Varies in AP only. The Woodsmen only has Varies in Durability & AP, not SS.
• Unknown
  
  • Phantaminum is only Unknown in SS & Durability.
  • Mimir has Low 1-C Durability.
• 10-C
  
  • Ramiris has Unknown SS.
• 10-B
  
  • Dementia has Unknown Durability.
  • Lord Kroak is Below Average Human level.
• 10-A
  
  • Beta Suiter (TimeShift) has Street level Durability
  • Tooru has Wall level Durability.
  • Shinpei Ajiro has Street level SS & Durability.
  • Gao Chuan has Average Human in AP, SS & Durability.
  • Mage/Marauder has Unknown SS.
• 9-B
  
  • Hatou Manabu only has Wall level AP.
  • Morghur is not Wall level at all.
• 9-A
  
  • Obsidian has Street level Durability.
  • Mage/Marauder has Unknown SS.
• 8-C
  
  • Xavier only has Building level AP.
• High 8-C
  
  • The Dunwich Horror has Unknown Durability.
• 8-B
  
  • Janus only has City Block level AP.
  • Timmy Turner is not City Block level at all.
• Low 7-C
  
  • Froggy 2 Does not exist.
  • Gojo is not Small Town level at all.
• 7-C
  
  • Lee Geon is not Town level at all.
  • Klein Moretti is only Town level in AP.
  • Chrysalis is only Town level in AP.
• Low 7-B
  
  • Es does not have Small City level Durability.
• 7-B
  
  • SCP-001 does not exist.
  • Homura Akemi does not have City SS.
• 7-A
  
  • Felmenia Stingray does not have Mountain level SS.
• High 7-A
  
  • Avatar of Calamity only has Large Mountain level AP.
• Low 6-B
  
  • Kain Highwind is not Small Country level at all.
• 6-B
  
  • Yomoji does not have Country level Striking Strength.
• High 6-B
  
  • Stikua does not have Large Country level Durability.
  • Archaon only has Large Country level SS.
  • Be'lakor does not have Large Country level SS.
• 6-A
  
  • Kidou En does not have Continent level SS.
  • Bai Xiaochun is not Continent level at all.
  • Diablo does not have Continent level Durability.
  • Savathûn, the Witch Queen does not have Continent level SS.
• High 6-A
  
  • Joshua has Planet level Durability.
  • The Fireman is only Multi-Continent level in AP.
  • Mike is only Multi-Continent level in AP.
  • Bob is only Multi-Continent level in AP.
• 5-C
  
  • Konron is only Moon level in AP.
  • Meng Hao is not Moon level at all.
  • Archaon is only Moon level in AP.
• Low 5-B
  
  • Kuso Saiki has Planet level Durability.
  • Ruphas Mafahl has Planet level Durability.
  • Taurus of the Bull has Planet level Durability.
  • Ji Ning does not have Small Planet level SS.
• 5-B
  
  • Joshua has Dwarf Star level Durability.
• High 5-A
  
  • Wang Ling (Anime) does not exist.
• Low 4-C
  
  • Zone Figher, Character from Godzilla is not Small Star level at all.
  • G.O.D, Characters from Kamen Rider don't even have a SS & Durability section.
  • Mega Man has Dwarf Star level Durability.
• 4-C
  
  • Beastheads is not Star level at all.
• High 4-C
  
  • Balancer has Unknown SS & Durability.
  • Joshua has Solar System level Durability.
• 4-B
  
  • Joshua has Low Outerverse level Durability.
• 4-A
  
  • Mujin Park is not Multi-Solar System level at all.
  • Sun Wukong has Low Complex Multiverse level Durability.
• 3-A
  
  • Joshua has Low Outerverse level Durability.
• High 3-A
  
  • Kozilek has Large Mountain level SS.
  • The Old Man of Wandering Mountain only has High Universe level AP.
• Low 2-C
  
  • Memeovore has Unknown level SS.
• 2-B
  
  • Stikua has Low Outerverse level Durability.
• 2-A
  
  • Mister Mxyzptlk has Low Multiverse level SS.
  • Stikua has Low Outerverse level Durability.
• High 1-B
  
  • Lou Baiyue is not High Hyperverse level at all.
• 1-A
  
  • Gu Chensha is not Outerverse level at all.
  • The Great Reason has Unknown level SS.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Having a higher durability should not count. Stone walls are a thing

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Ok so, AP, SS need to be to Tier, but Durability can be to Tier, or over Tier.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Memeovore has Unknown level SS.

To be fair he become the Universe that he ate and was infinite size

 

[Phoenks]

All that matters is physical strength, best represented by "striking strength." AP sometimes (and should) list physical tier, but often doesn't.

A good example is Frieren.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Well whatever the criteria is for Phyiscal, should be put in the Rules when Setsuna gets the chance. I always thought it was AP & Durability since that's all that's listed.

 

[CodeCCLL]

10-C

• Ramiris has Unknown SS.

Ramiris actually has cookie level lifting and striking strength. I don't know why this isn't on the profile...

 

[Lynieryz]

I would like answers to only two questions, if possible with scans or quotes from Kars's profile.

First one, is there proof that Kars was able to copy stuff of Shuna that consist of information type 2, and works at information type 2, layered laws and concepts type 1?

Second one, why can't a System that uses type 1 concept level 5-layer law manipulation to avoid logical contradictions and takes the precautions I've already mentioned against ultimate skill users who are independent of the System prevent Kars from reproducing Shuna's ability?


You realize you need to explain this claim, right? Does this happen through some kind of law manipulation, or is it some sort of temporal constant/singularity?

Kars will not be able to copy because what can be used as an argument is not currently accepted on the Wiki.

But that's irrelevant to the battle anyway, Shuna gets blitzed by MFTL+ Stands at equalized and unequalized speed, as the speed is equalized to Kars' speed and not the Stands' speed.

Speed Equalization Rules and Assumptions
​

Per default the following rules and assumptions will be taken if a match takes place in a speed equalized setting:

• The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight, etc.

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic with Massively FTL+ Reactions and Combat Speed (This is the same Kars from the J-Universe, reacted to Killer Queen) | At least Massively Hypersonic Movement Speed with Das Boot Ultimate (Combined or divided, it can keep up with Dio and Kars), possibly Massively FTL+ (Occasionally tagged Dio or Kars while both where fighting with missiles although neither made much of an effort in dodging) | At least Subsonic+ Movement Speed with Sub-Relativistic Reactions and Combat Speed with Dune Ultimate (Comparable if not above the original Dune) | Massively FTL with The World Ultimate | Massively FTL+ with Killer Queen and Bites the Dust (Is the same Stand from the J-Universe, triggered his third bomb a ridiculous amount of times in quick succession) | Massively FTL with D4C Ultimate (Comparable if not above the original D4C) | Massively FTL with Whitesnake Ultimate (Briefly fought The World Ultimate) | Massively FTL with C-Moon Ultimate (Comparable if not above the original C-Moon) | Massively FTL via Time Acceleration, eventually Infinite with Made in Heaven Ultimate Requiem (Comparable if not above the original Made in Heaven; will eventually reach these speeds with time acceleration)

 

[DontTalkDT]

Honestly, making the list by physicals was a mistake. We should always simply have gone by tier.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I agree, it's overall strongest for every tier, not physically strongest characters.

 

[DRW001]

ngl it should be Novel Dio on this list instead of Novel Kars

Shame his profile is complete dogwater though

 

[CodeCCLL]

Kars will not be able to copy because what can be used as an argument is not currently accepted on the Wiki.

Reasonable...

But that's irrelevant to the battle anyway, Shuna gets blitzed by MFTL+ Stands at equalized and unequalized speed, as the speed is equalized to Kars' speed and not the Stands' speed.

• Spiritual Lifeform Physiology (Benimaru together with Souei, Shuna and Hakurou became a Youki which is a spiritual lifeform similar to a Dryad[3])

Great, now we can start looking for answers to the question of how the "Stands" can defeat a "Spiritual Lifeform".

 

[Lynieryz]

Reasonable...

• Spiritual Lifeform Physiology (Benimaru together with Souei, Shuna and Hakurou became a Youki which is a spiritual lifeform similar to a Dryad[3])

Great, now we can start looking for answers to the question of how the "Stands" can defeat a "Spiritual Lifeform".

Limited Fate Manipulation (Destiny will repeat itself with Pucci being the only exception, his plan was to make everyone being able to face their destiny)

Shuna has no resistance to fate manipulation, Made In Heaven will simply make her follow her destiny, making Kars win by BFR.

And D4C's BFR is Multiversal+ while Shuna's dimensional travel is Low-Multiversal.

Range: Standard Melee Range, Tens of Meters with his revolver, Several Meters with D4C, Multiversal+ with D4C's Dimensional Travel | As before. Tens of Meters with Love Train (Can get this far away from Lucy while having Love Train, losing it if they separate too much), Planetary with Love Train's dimensional walls (It deflects all misfortune to elsewhere on the planet)

• Time Travel and Dimensional Travel (Low Multiversal; Spiritual Lifeforms can travel through worlds.[19] Spiritual Lifeforms can also travel to the end of space and time and they do it by movement alone[20]. The end of space and time is a point in the far distant future where the world has ended[21])

 

[CodeCCLL]

Shuna's dimensional travel is Low-Multiversal.

I need to clear up some misunderstandings here.

Dimensional travel of Spiritual Lifeforms allows them to cross worlds and go to countless different worlds. So if we had to list a dimensional travel range for them, it should actually be "multiversal".

Low multiversal range in the profile is actually related to their ability to go to the end of space-time using their dimensional travel along with time travel. Already, myself downgrade the range of their immortality type 9 and related ability to travel to the end of space-time from multiversal+ to low multiversal. However, I forgot this page when applying the thread to the profiles and someone else applied this revision for me, but he didn't pay much attention to it either.

Shuna has no resistance to fate manipulation,

She actually resists Honjou Masayuki's Unique Skill, Chosen One (fate manipulation), but it's not on the profile yet.

making Kars win by BFR

I actually have many counter-arguments to this, but for now I'll put this discussion on hold until Shuna's profile is updated for a clearer discussion.

Also, an little information addition: If Shuna were a completed Spiritual Lifeform, she would exist entirely as a lump of information and Kars would not be able to BFR her, but Benimaru, a Youki like Shuna, was evolved completed Spiritual Lifeform after seven volumes later. So Shuna isn't complete Spritual Lifeform and although Shuna can leave her physical body if she wishes, if she does not have time to do so, she can be BFR through her physical body.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Low multiversal range in the profile is actually related to their ability to go to the end of space-time using their dimensional travel along with time travel. Already, myself downgrade the range of their immortality type 9 and related ability to travel to the end of space-time from multiversal+ to low multiversal. However, I forgot this page when applying the thread to the profiles and someone else applied this revision for me, but he didn't pay much attention to it either

Finally, this time travel justification is actually completely wank (this was mentioned in a past CRT, but before that CRT reached a conclusion, the OP changed his mind on some issues and asked for the thread to be closed)

When I revise the dimensional travel part I quoted, the part in question will look like this.

• Dimensional Travel (Multiversal; Spiritual Lifeforms can travel through worlds[19])

 

[Livinmeme]

Finally, this time travel justification is actually completely wank (this was mentioned in a past CRT, but before that CRT reached a conclusion, the OP changed his mind on some issues and asked for the thread to be closed)

When I revise the dimensional travel part I quoted, the part in question will look like this.

• Dimensional Travel (Multiversal; Spiritual Lifeforms can travel through worlds[19])

Kars has 2-A range

 

[Lynieryz]

Dimensional travel of Spiritual Lifeforms allows them to cross worlds and go to countless different worlds. So if we had to list a dimensional travel range for them, it should actually be "multiversal".

Okay, but that still wouldn't be enough to get back from D4C's BFR.

Multiversal: Attacks and abilities that are able to reach anywhere within 1001 to any higher finite number of 4-dimensional space-time continuums at the same time.

Multiversal+: Attacks and abilities that are able to reach anywhere within an infinite amount of 4-dimensional space-time continuums at the same time.

I actually have many counter-arguments to this, but for now I'll put this discussion on hold until Shuna's profile is updated for a clearer discussion.

Sure, no problem.

Kars has 2-A range

Where did you get that from? And is it even accepted on the Wiki?

 

[XDragnoir]

not physically strongest characters.

I don't think the list even tries to do this? Using SS/Dura is just a minimum requirement to be in a tier, it's not like physical stats even matter in most match ups anyway so it definitely doesn't rank who is physically the strongest.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't think the list even tries to do this? Using SS/Dura is just a minimum requirement to be in a tier, it's not like physical stats even matter in most match ups anyway so it definitely doesn't rank who is physically the strongest.

Let's take the humble Ainz Ooal Gown for instance, he's functionally Low 7-C, but all of his fights in 9-A would be hax fights anyways so it doesn't matter, he could be 8-C or 3-A in dura and with magic

 

[Livinmeme]

Rikou for an empty spot in High 7-C, and Low 7-B
Erma for an empty spot in Low 7-B
Rikou above Erma because....Funny 10 layers of a shitload of things powered by CM3
PD: Erma doesn't have Low 7-B dura, forget it

 

[Livinmeme]

Anyone knows If gu chensha wins against Yian tan characters, In high 1-A?
Also the magician for the strongest High 1-A

 

[CodeCCLL]

Okay, but that still wouldn't be enough to get back from D4C's BFR

I have no claim that if they BFR to multiversal+ distance, they would be able to return via their own dimensional travel. I have different arguments.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

All that wall of text for Chinamen from YTSY to solo, smh.

 

[DaReaperMan]

All that wall of text for Chinamen from YTSY to solo, smh.

And for Karl Franz to not have a profile yet

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

And for Karl Franz to not have a profile yet

University bruh, I would if I have hours to read the books.

 

[DaReaperMan]

University bruh, I would if I have hours to read the books.

Karl Franz appears in short stories and certain comics, actually.

His straight up Novel appearances are brief and he either mediates or exists doing nothing during them... or it's such an old book that it predates 4th edition battle rules(Drachenfels), which is when Karl Franz was a piss-weak family man(Old lore had the elector counts vote in weak emperors so they maintained their independence). About 90% of what he actually does is in armybooks and roleplays, and his brief end times lore stuff, since second key is the easiest thing in the world cause it is already done

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I don't think the list even tries to do this? Using SS/Dura is just a minimum requirement to be in a tier, it's not like physical stats even matter in most match ups anyway so it definitely doesn't rank who is physically the strongest.

Yeah, but can you genuinely call it the Top 15 Strongest, when stronger characters who are AT that Tier on the wiki aren't even on the list because of their SS or Durability being too low?

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah, but can you genuinely call it the Top 15 Strongest, when stronger characters who are AT that Tier on the wiki aren't even on the list because of their SS or Durability being too low?

So what you're proposing is that it should be based solely on tier/AP?

Because I wouldn't mind that as long as it doesn't come solely from a weapon.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

So what you're proposing is that it should be based solely on tier/AP?

Yeah essentially.

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah essentially.

Brb gonna go get ready to put Doctor Strange on the 5-A list.