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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1
- Thread starter PowerToScale
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Because Naobito's the cap, making someone faster than the cap means they can be whatever they want em to be
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Tbf, Naobito was only a Grade 1 and was < Dagon in his domain. Sorta weak by current standards.
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Well, yeah, but he was old as **** and his CT was nullified in the Domain.
He was weak by current standards but not every current character is a speedster like Maki
Guacamolefletcher
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You claim this like there's significant lore making Maki way faster than anyone in the big 3 heavy hitters
Like the secret lore only M3x and KT know says Maki is faster than Yuta and Hakari by an insane degree... but not faster than Naoya w/o stacking! Still subsonic
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Miguel CT reveal, Maki back in the fight, Larue fought Sukuna, chapter ends with Sukuna hitting the second Black Flash
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Could you please, like, ignore me and Tempest? Do not interact with us at all. You're annoying. We don't like you. All your claims are stupid as ****.
Please do not make me ask a staff to block you for me.
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Besides the fact that I think JJK speed should be higher (I know there's bias, I know). There are a few things about the Naobito cap that haven't found addressed to the best of my knowledge.
Naobito's feats were done when he was lazing around beforehand, presumably inebriated and at the age of 71. He did pretty good in his fight w/Dagon but wasn't in his physical prime.
Also, there's vagueness to that statement. Did Naobito gain that title from an unknown feat in the past that was much higher then his current showings? Is there some yearly competition or assessment for that title? Is it purely rep? Is it only official/graduated sorcerers or are students also taken into consideration? And Gojo is a noted exception (I mean he is Gojo). If Gojo is an exception, then there can be some room for other ones, especially ones hyped up being special grade and/or having potential to be on Gojo's level.
Maybe this was sufficiently addressed earlier and missed it but that's how I see the Naobito cap situation. Hope this makes sense!
Guacamolefletcher
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Another issue is the claim is just by being faster than Naoya, the scaling chain would at least be this:
Naoya < Naobito < Stacked Naoya < Stacked Naobito
So it results in Naobito being at least slightly faster than Naoya aka at being slightly faster than mach 1. Then they extrapolate the minimum scaling for Naobito to say that he's not supersonic without stacking because he isn't inherently via the connective scaling to Naoya. Then somehow because of it he's faster than anyone w/o being supersonic, which is just a big non-sequitur.
Naobito could just be supersonic without stacking or whatever, but even if he isn't, it doesn't matter because his title doesn't matter.
I will say that it's weird Naoya can dodge Choso's piercing blood if so.
Also for the 24fps movement "anti feat" and whatnot, I'd say it's more a hole in the story, because the premise of the ability doesn't even make sense. Moving at mach 1 can't be animated at 24fps unless there's some shenanigans we don't know about. I guess it's possible, but not with the complexity that Naoya does it, and the sharp turns and the number of movements that he does it in.
Naoya < Naobito < Stacked Naoya < Stacked Naobito
So it results in Naobito being at least slightly faster than Naoya aka at being slightly faster than mach 1. Then they extrapolate the minimum scaling for Naobito to say that he's not supersonic without stacking because he isn't inherently via the connective scaling to Naoya. Then somehow because of it he's faster than anyone w/o being supersonic, which is just a big non-sequitur.
Naobito could just be supersonic without stacking or whatever, but even if he isn't, it doesn't matter because his title doesn't matter.
What I will say might even be an anti feat for Naobito > Naoya is how one arm Naobito ~ Maki and whatnot. He's not that fast with only one arm, and his own reactions and whatnot.
I will say that it's weird Naoya can dodge Choso's piercing blood if so.
Also for the 24fps movement "anti feat" and whatnot, I'd say it's more a hole in the story, because the premise of the ability doesn't even make sense. Moving at mach 1 can't be animated at 24fps unless there's some shenanigans we don't know about. I guess it's possible, but not with the complexity that Naoya does it, and the sharp turns and the number of movements that he does it in.
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Half of the characters fighting right now are weaker than Dagon in his domain
Guacamolefletcher
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I think the biggest thing is we're super caught up in calcs and whatnot and discussing and debating when the author hasn't thought this shit through. We saw it with the black flash shit, the author is just a yapper and doesn't understand the implications of certain things
How and who
Guacamolefletcher
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Mei Mei is still < Dagon, lol
Maybe with bird strike she can take him out, but in physicals she's the same as she was back in the ******* Hidden Inventory arc
Arkenis
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That's in domain though. A domain that spawns big fish biting into you and held out for several minutes and got caught off guard to make it happen. Most couldn't survive that without popping their own domain or having good rct.
Naobito is also faster than most, no one has the perception, senses or reflexes to keep up. We see Choso needs FRS just to perceive Naoya not at top speed, Naobito > Naoya. Kamo still confirming Naobito to be the fastest even with knowledge Maki got better, Hakari joined the fight, Yuta in the game and SUKUNA.
His ap isn't bad either. He's breaking Dagon's fingers, punching through his water shield, something Nanami couldn't. And this is all ignoring how hard his ct will be to deal with, all the easy hits he'd get on people. I'd say Naobito in the Culling Games is a problem for all who aren't Yuta and Maki.
Untrue. He is known to be the fastest in a era of prodigies like Yuta, Yuji, Naoya, Yuki, Maki. Realistically the only ones out-speeding him are Gojo and likely Sukuna. And Maki got HR and then could perceive Naoya, something that FRS did only by raising visual acuity. I doubt (besides scaling) you can make good reasoning for why someone like Higuruma or Ryu could keep up or have perception that good.
What is Yuta doing here? Holding back his speed cause he wants to kill Yuji? He's just holding back yeah. Maki punched top speed Naoya.
Maki smelling light and seeing sound > Mach 3 God Cursed Naoya The King of Speed Curses > Maki ~ Naoya ~ Yuta
Don't even need lore but here
What is Maki? Who is Maki? Why is Maki?
All these questions can be answered through one simple word... HER!
Where does Maki get all her swagger and strength from? Her loser clan? Her old bitter dad? Her friends? None.
She gets it from endless hard-work, immense skill and being herself... unlike that loser Gojo.
"What's Maki's best feat"
What's yours? Maki went toe to toe with the man himself and survived. Name someone else who still alive, running hands with
"Maki not faster than Hakari, he lightning speed"
Read the manga.
Guacamolefletcher
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he did not.
He said Naobito is "the fastest" aka he brought up the title, and how he was considered fast
Or Hakari or Kashimo or Ryu or Uro
He has the title, sure, but like being known for something doesn't mean much.
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its so over....
Arkenis
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Guacamolefletcher
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Guacamolefletcher
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〝最速”禪院直毘人の「投射呪法」……………!!
"the fastest" Naobito Zen'in's "projection sorcery"...!!!
He is talking about the title. It's like they said in bleach " "The strongest projectile user " Jirobo Ikkanzaka" and you tried using that to say Jirobo > Byakuya
"the fastest" Naobito Zen'in's "projection sorcery"...!!!
He is talking about the title. It's like they said in bleach " "The strongest projectile user " Jirobo Ikkanzaka" and you tried using that to say Jirobo > Byakuya
Arkenis
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And now prove the title wrong... through the story if you can.
Guacamolefletcher
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Ok so this is a concession because then it's not Kamo saying he is indeed the fastest, he's bringing up the title, and it goes against your point.
He's holding back to the point where ******* Yuji can break his sword...
Naoya badly blitzing Yuji and Choso:
Yuji vs that iteration of Yuta, being basically ******* equal in speed:
Same Yuji clashes with Yuta:
Same Yuji can break Yuta's sword:
So basically, if you think Yuta is going all out here, you think Yuji >~ Yuta in stats and Yuji = Yuta in speed, but guess what.
Here is a slightly manifested Rika completely overpowering that Yuji physically, with Yuta specifying to her "we're playing around":
Same Yuta is ~ Rika in physicals.
Same Yuta who kept up with Geto, who is equal to Kenjaku in combat speed, and who could casually perception blitz 3 sorcerers including pre-awakened Maki. Same Yuta who did this vs Kenjaku:
https://imgur.com/a/P4eOGhR
Same Kenjaku who could casually dodge piercing blood, which is faster than Naoya's best. So basically, it's clear Yuta was holding back to the point where he was physically relative to Yuji and relative to Yuji in speed. This makes sense because otherwise, Naoya would be >>>>>> Yuta in terms of speed, and he'd be stronger than Yuta w/o Rika, as he'd just be able to blitz and wear down, or even blitz + one shot
Miguel ~ Gojo > Naoya. That simple.
Geto is a sorcerer. Geto ~ Kenjaku > Piercing blood
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Arkenis
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No. I think you're just confused. Just because its a title doesn't mean its not confirmation. Kamo is still saying the title because it has worth to it, he isn't just saying it cause its a title. Kamo deems it worthy to still bring up even with knowledge of sorcerers like Yuta.
He's not holding back, Yuji's just very strong.
Before upping his speed
Because its in close combat.
Where did Yuta go all out? In speed definitely but not strength. I don't get the Rika point. She's holding him, that's LS. They so obviously weren't playing around... Rika's a kid, he told her that to calm down, not cause its true.
EldemadeDityjon
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Whatever you are saying never stated in the series. So Gojo Bliztes Naobito but Sukuna is likely despite having same speed as Gojo?
Yuki was dead ass kown to lazy, her information wasn't even available to the higher ups of the jujutsu high, I don't see why she would be famous like Naobito for speed with her laziness & Yuta was training in Africa. Current chapter stated 99% of Sorcerers are from Japan. It's not hard to understand his speed information or anything would be spread to the world. Not to mention we do know yuta was hiding his abilities from jujutsu high. Even if you argue yuta is slower than Naobito in Shibuya Incident & CG due to his struggle with Yuji speed current arc has no relationship with that. He already trained & increased his speed. Sukuna was fast enough to blitz Ryu but yuta who had same speed as Ryu keeping up with current Sukuna already shows that.
Maki & Naoya idc. It's not like they are considered to be anything special.
Tell Maki to outspeed casual Uraume first which base Hakari already keeping up with all out Uraume AOE speed. Maki glazing should be stopped & people should read JJK not Maki Kaisen.
What is Yuta doing here? Holding back his speed cause he wants to kill Yuji? He's just holding back yeah. Maki punched top speed Naoya.
Maki smelling light and seeing sound > Mach 3 God Cursed Naoya The King of Speed Curses > Maki ~ Naoya ~ Yuta
Don't even need lore but here
What is Maki? Who is Maki? Why is Maki?
All these questions can be answered through one simple word... HER!
Where does Maki get all her swagger and strength from? Her loser clan? Her old bitter dad? Her friends? None.
She gets it from endless hard-work, immense skill and being herself... unlike that loser Gojo.
"What's Maki's best feat"
What's yours? Maki went toe to toe with the man himself and survived. Name someone else who still alive, running hands withGegeSukuna?
"Maki not faster than Hakari, he lightning speed"
Read the manga.
Guacamolefletcher
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No? It's like saying "Oh, that was the technique of 'Special grade' Yuta"
No? Yuji is weakened here, and in Shibuya he's Nanami level. Yuta himself is >>> sorcerers like Nanami
What...? Close combat vs long-range, it doesn't matter, they still go equal in speed, and to make matters worse Yuji dodges Yuta's attacks several times.
How the **** would Yuta beat ******* Naoya if a casual Naoya can bad-blitz him?
If you admit he's not going all out, or using his 100%, then you literally can't claim he's using his full speed. This claim literally has nothing going for it either. Yuta never said he's using his full speed... but not his full power, for some reason?
Yuta's LS ~ Rika's. We see this consistently.
Ok so? It still shows that he's not fighting with his 100%, and even has to specify it to Rika. "Hey, we're just playing, chill, don't go all out or you're gonna squeeze him to death"
Uraume explicitly hasn't gone out against anyone from the moderm day, yet people are tryna say stuff and make scaling chains for Uraume and anyone but Hakari...
Uraume looks at Hakari and thinks "Nah, you're not like anyone from the modern age, you're superhuman" and people are like "Nah, Hakari is just your average physical brawler, he'd get blitzed by Maki"
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At least it sounds like the chapter was interesting if its managed to add flame to the speed debate again.
EldemadeDityjon
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Idk Arkenis started that
Not to mention dude thinks Naobito might likely faster than Sukuna
Arkenis
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Well yeah, Gojo's hyped speed seems to come from Blue not regular speed. And Sukuna was getting blitzed by Blue early on. Its similar to Shunshin in Naruto putting someone above someone they were otherwise relative to.So Gojo Bliztes Naobito but Sukuna is likely despite having same speed as Gojo?
Lazy, not inactive. And he saw her in Shibuya save everyone, what does he need to see to know how fast she is compared to others?
Yuta's known to have beaten Geto, second to Gojo, and washed all of Kyoto, and he still wasn't faster than Naobito? That training in Africa is random, you couldn't tell me what he trained for.
What?
Just that he could use pos energy outside the body.
The current Sukuna that has been fighting fight after fight? Having to use RCT constantly, thats the same Sukuna that blitzed Ryu? When did Yuta train? How did he train? Yuta doesn't seem to think that training was worth anything considering how he answered Sukuna.
What?
He's developed his curse energy control, he can be physically weak but his ce control is greater now.
It does matter. Yuta and Yuji aren't out-speeding Naoya in travel speed. Even in close combat we see Choso can't keep up either.
Yuta wins through other means, likely just growing to perceive the speed, or domain, or tanking till Naoya can't use his ct. It's really not insane to think Yuta wins outside of speed lmao.
When did I say Yuta was using full speed? I just don't agree he was holding back speed. When did I say full power either?
Read up.
Until Uraume goes all out and shows us their crazy lightning speed, bros staying a subsonic ice user.
Arkenis
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What needs to be added https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Arkenis/sandboxforKusakabe?so=search
Arkenis
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Oh yeah I'm done with it, I just dont know if anyone wanted to add more.
Arkenis/sandboxforMeiMei
vsbattles.fandom.com
EldemadeDityjon
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Post the scan where his perception got blitzed instead of Gojo holding Sukuna with his Blue and trying to attack him. Gojo was overpowering Sukuna when he was concentrated on TS Adaptation; nothing in the series shows he was blitzing him. He was just kicking him here and there with Blue-amped fists. Sukuna was shown to block the attacks, but he was just getting thrown away. Also, Gojo's Blue is explicitly stated to be short-range teleportation, not speed in literal. Besides, Gojo's perception and combat speed didn't decrease when Blue was turned off, so either way, him using Blue or not shouldn't matter.
Show me the scans where in the manga it was stated she went all out in Shibuya? Kenjaku who was collecting information on everyone and has information Gojo and others didn't had anything on YuKi. Even Higher ups who gave her special grade title didn't know much about her. She pulling up for a bit and protecting them ≠ Kamo and others fully know about Yuki's speed.
We know what he trained for: to regain his special grade status after being nuked to grade 4 when Rika left him. Yuta is a 50% CQC fighter, so it's not hard to say he also trained in his speed. Also, no one was watching when Yuta smoked Geto. There is no indication that Yuta went all out against some Grade 1 and lower noobs from Kyoto. Why are you assuming Yuta was going all out against them? Even the manga states it's one-sided.
Never states it's only because of that.
Sukuna when he fought Yuta he has better conditions.
He said cheated meaning highly likely trained inside Miyo's domain. He didn't say he didn't trained.
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EldemadeDityjon
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Regarding SD. Damage reduction should be added for Kusakabe? Or limited Powernull for weakening Sukuna slashes output which targets him?
Also its not just speed enhancement. You should just write it as statistics amplification because overall CE output is getting amped inside his SD.
Vector Manipulation should work because of him having good knowledge on barrier techniques and he was able to shrink and expand his SD barriers conditions.
Also H2H combat should be added to his abilities.
Guacamolefletcher
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Imma just spoiler tag it too
It's like you handed me a 45lb dumbbell and told me "hey it's a 5." I'd be caught offguard by the weight, and probably drop it, since I didn't expect it to be heavy. But is 45lbs heavy for me when using my full strength? No, I can throw it around like it's nothing
I wanna add the season 2 art style Mei Mei render, since it looks better, and also the Hidden Inventory Mei Mei
Note: I already did this for a lot of the verse, like Geto, Todo, Miwa, etc
Prove that
Ok so he's barely squeeking out a win through getting beat the **** up...? Doesn't seem like the sorcerer second to Gojo
Ok so then it doesn't gatekeep Yuta's ratings, and that's a concession
If something comes at you way faster than you expected, shown by the sonic boom happening right in front of their face. He still reacted perfectly, and just at the eye test you can see Uraume covered a very similar distance with their hand to block it as the PB did before reaching them. Also this, again, isn't all out Uraume, it's Uraume before the PB hit him and holidng back as he usually does vs modern day people, like he states.
It's like you handed me a 45lb dumbbell and told me "hey it's a 5." I'd be caught offguard by the weight, and probably drop it, since I didn't expect it to be heavy. But is 45lbs heavy for me when using my full strength? No, I can throw it around like it's nothing
OK NOW this is just a yap statement. Even if we wank Naobito's statements and say he's Mach 3 at peak because of them, Toji-level Maki can react and perceive that, while she can't react to a weakened Sukuna. Gojo's blue is never hyped up or brought up again
Wait also, can I edit this to add the newer renders? Also I wanna add the younger Mei Mei rendersOh yeah I'm done with it, I just dont know if anyone wanted to add more.
Arkenis/sandboxforMeiMei
I wanna add the season 2 art style Mei Mei render, since it looks better, and also the Hidden Inventory Mei Mei
Note: I already did this for a lot of the verse, like Geto, Todo, Miwa, etc
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