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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

I think the point was that Zeno is the most powerful being in existence but the Grand Priest is the strongest FIGHTER in existence or something along those lines. Zeno is not a fighter, warrior, martial artist, etc.. He's more akin to a force of nature. So applying him to such questions is illogical inherently. When it comes to Zeno it's not a matter of "Who's stronger" or "Who'd win" or whatnot, he's just the top dog, period. I'm pretty sure that Beerus pretty much says this himself, or maybe I'm misremembering.
 
RinneItachi said:
I think the point was that Zeno is the most powerful being in existence but the Grand Priest is the strongest FIGHTER in existence or something along those lines. Zeno is not a fighter, warrior, martial artist, etc.. He's more akin to a force of nature. So applying him to such questions is illogical inherently. When it comes to Zeno it's not a matter of "Who's stronger" or "Who'd win" or whatnot, he's just the top dog, period.
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^
The Grand Priest is the strongest FIGHTER.

Zeno is the MOST POWERFUL BEING.
 
For real if neutral space between universes is accepted as insignificant 5-D why aren’t Angels who regularly cross them with flight within a finite timeframe given immeasurable speed since they’d be moving on a space beyond 4-D spacetime.
 
RinneItachi said:
I think the point was that Zeno is the most powerful being in existence but the Grand Priest is the strongest FIGHTER in existence or something along those lines. Zeno is not a fighter, warrior, martial artist, etc.. He's more akin to a force of nature. So applying him to such questions is illogical inherently. When it comes to Zeno it's not a matter of "Who's stronger" or "Who'd win" or whatnot, he's just the top dog, period. I'm pretty sure that Beerus pretty much says this himself, or maybe I'm misremembering.
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Whis simply stated Grand Priest was the strongest person period, not fighter, combatant etc just person
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Here's the profile:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Grand Priest (DBS Manga)

The Grand Minister (大神官 Daishinkan, lit. "Great Priest" or "High Priest"), formally Grand Minister to the Omni-King(s), is an Angel serving as a close adviser and guiding figure to Zeno and Future Zeno. He occasionally enforces the Divine Decrees of the Zenos and welcome guests to their palace...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Far superior to Whis and other characters, easily attacked two destroyers)

He didn't attack the two gods of destruction with his speed, he only stopped them by
 
Ednaxel2 said:
It's kinda blatant in the manga that Grand Priest is the strongest
main-qimg-48f06e099cc4a9debac7e7b51bfc3189-lq
LhOnnkM.png
Click to expand...
No, I already covered this pages ago. When people refer to Zeno’s power and his relevance to others, it’s specifically the fact he’s an unkillable god being that can erase ANYTHING—No exceptions.

He is the MOST POWERFUL BEING IN EXISTENCE. This is reiterated several times.

HOWEVER, as stated by Beerus and Whis, he is not a FIGHTER. He is not fast or strong in the conventional sense, nor is it EVER implied he uses Ki. We see this quite clearly in the ToP, where he was a non-combatant who couldn’t observe the fights, and relied on a keyed up IPad. He cannot hit hard, fire lasers, or move quickly, but he is still the most powerful.

That quite literally means that when Whis said his father was the “most powerful” he meant as a conventional fighter.

This is further established when they talk about Ultra Instinct—Goku’s at the bottom of the latter, Whis is higher, and his father above him. Simply put—The Grand Priest is the best fighter/warrior. The Omni King is the most powerful creature.
 
AguilaR202 said:
That’s really not an answer because dimensional travel isn’t a technique of itself but what they achieve via normal flight, presumably because they literally don’t showcase any other methods of travel.
Click to expand...
Wiki treats it as a dimensional travel and DT is done via an ability like teleportation or a special space it is not normal flight you have to prove that it is normal flight speed before making an upgrade
 
Last edited:
vsbattles.com

Dragon Ball Z (Manga): Expanded Speed Scaling

Hello. This thread aims to expand DBZ's speed ratings. The current speed blog listed on the verse page only lists characters up to Namek SS1 Goku. I have created a new blog where the speed ratings would be expanded for some Cell Saga and Buu Saga characters. More details can be found in my blog...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Here's the profile:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Grand Priest (DBS Manga)

The Grand Minister (大神官 Daishinkan, lit. "Great Priest" or "High Priest"), formally Grand Minister to the Omni-King(s), is an Angel serving as a close adviser and guiding figure to Zeno and Future Zeno. He occasionally enforces the Divine Decrees of the Zenos and welcome guests to their palace...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...

Ednaxel2 said:
Could you please give and explanation as to why he has these?
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Immortality (Types 1 and 5; Angels don't have a lifespan. Goku believed that Angels could not die, and Whis confirmed this and said the only way to kill an Angel is to erase them from existence)
Click to expand...
 
RedReaper said:
No, I already covered this pages ago. When people refer to Zeno’s power and his relevance to others, it’s specifically the fact he’s an unkillable god being that can erase ANYTHING—No exceptions.

He is the MOST POWERFUL BEING IN EXISTENCE. This is reiterated several times.

HOWEVER, as stated by Beerus and Whis, he is not a FIGHTER. He is not fast or strong in the conventional sense, nor is it EVER implied he uses Ki. We see this quite clearly in the ToP, where he was a non-combatant who couldn’t observe the fights, and relied on a keyed up IPad. He cannot hit hard, fire lasers, or move quickly, but he is still the most powerful.

That quite literally means that when Whis said his father was the “most powerful” he meant as a conventional fighter.

This is further established when they talk about Ultra Instinct—Goku’s at the bottom of the latter, Whis is higher, and his father above him. Simply put—The Grand Priest is the best fighter/warrior. The Omni King is the most powerful creature.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's good to talk about Daishinkan being below Zeno in the manga, it's very clear from Whis that Daishinkan is the most powerful (apart from the fact that every plot in the manga is different from the anime and Daishinkan seems to have a position on the same level as Zeno).
 
RedReaper said:
No, I already covered this pages ago. When people refer to Zeno’s power and his relevance to others, it’s specifically the fact he’s an unkillable god being that can erase ANYTHING—No exceptions.

He is the MOST POWERFUL BEING IN EXISTENCE. This is reiterated several times.

HOWEVER, as stated by Beerus and Whis, he is not a FIGHTER. He is not fast or strong in the conventional sense, nor is it EVER implied he uses Ki. We see this quite clearly in the ToP, where he was a non-combatant who couldn’t observe the fights, and relied on a keyed up IPad. He cannot hit hard, fire lasers, or move quickly, but he is still the most powerful.

That quite literally means that when Whis said his father was the “most powerful” he meant as a conventional fighter.

This is further established when they talk about Ultra Instinct—Goku’s at the bottom of the latter, Whis is higher, and his father above him. Simply put—The Grand Priest is the best fighter/warrior. The Omni King is the most powerful creature.
Click to expand...
we currently accept that he does in his Erasure, hence why he scales to it in his normal stats
 
5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.

huh, when is anything like this even remotely suggested about the angels? yeah sure it is said that they can't die............how does this automatically translates to them being unbounded by life and death?
 
omegabronic said:
5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.

huh, when is anything like this even remotely suggested about the angels? yeah sure it is said that they can't die............how does this automatically translates to them being unbounded by life and death?
Click to expand...
From what I've read the reason why Angels in DB have Type 5 Immortality is due to it being stated in the manga by Whis that the being erased out of existence is the only way for Angels to be killed, which would imply that Angels can't be killed or die through conventional means. Of course I myself can't say if they do or don't qualify for Type 5, only that this is the current justification.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
From what I've read the reason why Angels in DB have Type 5 Immortality is due to it being stated in the manga by Whis that the being erased out of existence is the only way for Angels to be killed, which would imply that Angels can't be killed or die through conventional means. Of course I myself can't say if they do or don't qualify for Type 5, only that this is the current justification.
Click to expand...
This is because there is no way to kill them, they are limited to the laws that the Daishinkan created for angels, maintain neutrality about anything that happens and never fight seriously, angels I see them having type 8 immortality too, since they are just kept alive by a law.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
From what I've read the reason why Angels in DB have Type 5 Immortality is due to it being stated in the manga by Whis that the being erased out of existence is the only way for Angels to be killed, which would imply that Angels can't be killed or die through conventional means. Of course I myself can't say if they do or don't qualify for Type 5, only that this is the current justification.
Click to expand...
the link doesn't work, and..............why would that "they can't die by conventional means" = to them working on a different life and death system? as in, not being bounded by conventional life and death?
 
omegabronic said:
the link doesn't work, and..............why would that "they can't die by conventional means" = to them working on a different life and death system? as in, not being bounded by conventional life and death?
Click to expand...
If the link isn't working, and you see a bunch of numbers after "latest", then delete those numbers and the link should work again. And honestly? I don't know, I just wanted to share the current reasoning why manga Angels have Type 5 if you had wanted the source
 
omegabronic said:
whis said that breaking the rule of the angels is the only way they can be "removed from existence" which is not death in DB, as you still exists after you die

the Goku does hold merit for them having immortality, it doesn't prove however that they are unbonded by life and death
Click to expand...
What are you talking about, omega? They can't die, man, they can only die if they break the laws of the angels that erase them automatically and through EE, this classifies as immortality type 5, they cannot die by conventional means.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
What are you talking about, omega? They can't die, man, they can only die if they break the laws of the angels that erase them automatically and through EE, this classifies as immortality type 5, they cannot die by conventional means.
Click to expand...
where do you see in the description for type 5 that "can't die by conventional means" is a justification to add type 5?
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
I don't think it's good to talk about Daishinkan being below Zeno in the manga, it's very clear from Whis that Daishinkan is the most powerful (apart from the fact that every plot in the manga is different from the anime and Daishinkan seems to have a position on the same level as Zeno).
Click to expand...
This was stated ONCE, and then was directly contradicted by ANOTHER instance in the Manga saying ZENO is the most powerful.

So no, not really.
 
omegabronic said:
where do you see in the description for type 5 that "can't die by conventional means" is a justification to add type 5?
Click to expand...

"Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them"

Are you seriously not reading, omega? literally we are told that angels cannot die, then Whis mentions that he can only die by breaking the laws of angels, it is not a conventional death as usual, they fit with this immortality, there are no other ways to kill them.

 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
"Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them"

Are you seriously not reading, omega? literally we are told that angels cannot die, then Whis mentions that he can only die by breaking the laws of angels, it is not a conventional death as usual, they fit with this immortality, there are no other ways to kill them.

Click to expand...

......are you not reading my question? repeating what you said earlier doesn't convince me when i questioned it in the first place
 
AguilaR202 said:
For real if neutral space between universes is accepted as insignificant 5-D why aren’t Angels who regularly cross them with flight within a finite timeframe given immeasurable speed since they’d be moving on a space beyond 4-D spacetime.
Click to expand...
Because they do it via hax, not speed, they do have dimensional travel.
 
I've added the Gojo VS Makima, Goku Black VS Reverse Flash and Flash VS Quicksilver calculations onto the verse page, as well as Goku Black's profile.

I'm planning on making profiles for season 3 characters like Bowser, Mewtwo and maybe Hulk
 
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