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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Is Roka replicating ability perfect that she cam copy Mugetsu and Hōgyoku? Because I have seen argument of-wiki that Roka can shot Aizen like Ichigo with Mugetsu
and
Should the Physiology profile have pictures?
 
Excellence616 said:
Is Roka replicating ability perfect that she cam copy Mugetsu and Hōgyoku? Because I have seen argument of-wiki that Roka can shot Aizen like Ichigo with Mugetsu
and
Should the Physiology profile have pictures?
Click to expand...
She stated that she can't copy the Hogyoku. After re-reading SAFWY, I'm quite against the idea that everything she copies is weaker. Since when she copies something and it's weaker, on top of it being explicitly stated, it's implied to not be due to a power difference; instead, it's a skill difference. Mugetsu, although it can be argued to be weaker, should not be anything less than 5-C, and that's a bit of downplay. I think it should be 4-A.
 
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Bastolan27 said:
She stated that she can't copy the Hogyoku. After rereading SAFWY, I'm quite against the idea that everything she copies is weaker. Since when she copies something and it's weaker, on top of it being explicitly stated, it's implied to not be due to a power difference; instead, it's a skill difference. Mugetsu, although it can be argued to be weaker, should not be anything less than 5-C, and that's a bit of downplay. I think it should be 4-A.
Click to expand...
Because one thing I have discovered is copying an ability doesn't necessary make the copied ability equal to the original unless stated otherwise.
 
Excellence616 said:
Because one thing I have discovered is copying an ability doesn't necessary make the copied ability equal to the original unless stated otherwise.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but I don't think her Mugetsu is 4-A because it's a Mugetsu. I believe it's 4-A due to how they compare her Reiatsu when she was absorbing Reishi from all over Hueco Mundo to use Mugetsu, to another character.
 
Bastolan27 said:
Yeah, but I don't think her Mugetsu is 4-A because it's a Mugetsu. I believe it's 4-A due to how they compare her Reiatsu when she was absorbing Reishi from all over Hueco Mundo to use Mugetsu, to another character.
Click to expand...
Okay, she didn't do it via raw power, she has to absorb energy to do The Mugetsu?
 
Excellence616 said:
Okay, she didn't do it via raw power, she has to absorb energy to do The Mugetsu?
Click to expand...
Yeah, if I were to tier it like a profile, it would be |Whatever normal tier she gets, 4-A with Mugetsu and Absorption|.


"She laid out her threads all over Hueco Mundo to absorb enough spiritual-matter for this attack."

Just her hax makes her one of the most dangerous Bleach characters cross verse.
 
Bastolan27 said:
Yeah, if I were to tier it like a profile, it would be |Whatever normal tier she gets, 4-A with Mugetsu and Absorption|.


"She laid out her threads all over Hueco Mundo to absorb enough spiritual-matter for this attack."

Just her hax makes her one of the most dangerous Bleach characters cross verse.
Click to expand...
It all make sense now. I was planning on reading SAFWY but I only have the summarized translation.
 
Bastolan27 said:
She stated that she can't copy the Hogyoku. After re-reading SAFWY, I'm quite against the idea that everything she copies is weaker. Since when she copies something and it's weaker, on top of it being explicitly stated, it's implied to not be due to a power difference; instead, it's a skill difference. Mugetsu, although it can be argued to be weaker, should not be anything less than 5-C, and that's a bit of downplay. I think it should be 4-A.
Click to expand...
🗿 🗿 🗿
After rereading SAFWY
Click to expand...
You mean, the summary or BBS...
None of ya'll have read SAFWY in actuality.
Mugetsu, although it can be argued to be weaker, should not be anything less than 5-C, and that's a bit of downplay. I think it should be 4-A.
Click to expand...
Where are these headcanon tiers coming from? She can't even use use Cero Doble properly on Cien's Triple Gran Rey Cero, which is explicitly weaker than the top 3 espada abilities. This makes absolutely 0 sense. The 4-A scaling also makes no sense, because there is no reason to downscale the copied mugetsu to Ichigo's actual one.

Spectra_Schiffer said:
If there are no problems, I will publish SAFWY revisions, just need to create a sandbox for Kuruyashiki
Click to expand...
Please, not yet. At least not for a year or two, since I'm working on an actual translation for SAFWY. A sandbox is already being made by Arcker.
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
🗿 🗿 🗿

You mean, the summary or BBS...
None of ya'll have read SAFWY in actuality.
Click to expand...
Ok I guess, believe what you want
Guacamolefletcher said:
Where are these headcanon tiers coming from? She can't even use use Cero Doble properly on Cien's Triple Gran Rey Cero, which is explicitly weaker than the top 3 espada abilities. This makes absolutely 0 sense.
Click to expand...
What? Can you send me the part where it's explicitly stated to be weaker than the top 3 Espada abilities? Cien is stronger than the Espada.
Guacamolefletcher said:
The 4-A scaling also makes no sense, because there is no reason to downscale the copied mugetsu to Ichigo's actual one.
Click to expand...
I'm not downscaling it from anything. The tiering comes from Cien comparing her amount of spiritual energy to that of Post-Hōgyoku Aizen. That's why I said 5-C to 4-A.

"Her spiritual pressure rises. Szayelaporro is afraid. Did she copy one of AIZEN’s attacks? How did she get data on that!? He didn’t fuse with the hôgyoku until after he left Hueco Mundo. Did she connect with the Muken!? Roca shakes her head, 'Do you know how many months I wandered through Karakura Town?' No way... Cien quickly tries to break her neck, but he’s too late. — 'What I downloaded... is... the power that stopped AIZEN -sama."
 
Bastolan27 said:
I'm not downscaling it from anything. The tiering comes from Cien comparing her amount of spiritual energy to that of Post-Hōgyoku Aizen. That's why I said 5-C to 4-A.
Click to expand...
Spiritual energy doesn't exist, there is only spiritual power and spiritual pressure.

Bastolan27 said:
"Her spiritual pressure rises. Szayelaporro is afraid. Did she copy one of AIZEN’s attacks? How did she get data on that!? He didn’t fuse with the hôgyoku until after he left Hueco Mundo. Did she connect with the Muken!? Roca shakes her head, 'Do you know how many months I wandered through Karakura Town?' No way... Cien quickly tries to break her neck, but he’s too late. — 'What I downloaded... is... the power that stopped AIZEN -sama."
Click to expand...
He is literally just spitballing strong things he knows about. He can't sense Soul King level Aizen...

Cien regained his ultimate form he had as a 0 espada, and that is weaker than base Aizen. Second fusion Aizen alone is so weak, two base Aizen tier people (Kisuke and Isshin) can't even sense his power. How would Cien possibly sense a real Mugetsu's spiritual power? Also there's the fact that he survives it...

Bastolan27 said:
Ok I guess, believe what you want
Click to expand...
No one has a full translation of SAFWY, and you haven't read the full actual novel. The reddit dropbox version everyone has is a summary translation

Bastolan27 said:
What? Can you send me the part where it's explicitly stated to be weaker than the top 3 Espada abilities? Cien is stronger than the Espada.
Click to expand...
If you think Cien is stronger than the espada because of a moment when his spiritual pressure swelled up for a bit, then you're mistaken. Read the scans in the actual profiles:
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Guys, if there was any doubt Reio35 was wrong about 30% Cien > Yammy, here are the raws, which blatantly disprove this is the case.

「...... 面白いネ」そこに示された数値から計算し――今しがた背後で膨れあがった霊圧が、如何に巨大であったのかという事を確認したからだ。「あの模造品･････やればできるじゃあないかネ」彼の脳裏に思い出されるのは、『十刃最強』と唱っていた、一体の巨獣。 更木剣八と朽木白哉が二人がかりで斬り伏せた、『0』の数字を持つヤミー・リヤルゴ。導き出された数値はほんの一瞬とはいえ、確かにその巨獣の霊圧を上回っていた。


"...Interesting, huh?" It was because he calculated from the displayed numbers that he confirmed the enormity of the spiritual pressure that had just swelled up behind him. "That imitation... If you try, you can do it, right?" What came to his mind was a single behemoth that was called the "Strongest of the Espada." It was Yammy Llargo, bearing the number '0', whom Kenpachi Zaraki and Byakuya Kuchiki had defeated together. The derived numbers, even though only for a moment, certainly surpassed the spiritual pressure of that behemoth.
Click to expand...
@Bastolan27
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Spiritual energy doesn't exist, there is only spiritual power and spiritual pressure.
Click to expand...
You know what I mean, don't be like that. When I first watched Bleach in my native language with fan-dubbing, it was translated as "Spiritual Energy." It's a habit for me to say it, and everybody understands what I mean when I say it.
Guacamolefletcher said:
He is literally just spitballing strong things he knows about. He can't sense Soul King level Aizen...
Cien regained his ultimate form he had as a 0 espada, and that is weaker than base Aizen. Second fusion Aizen alone is so weak, two base Aizen tier people (Kisuke and Isshin) can't even sense his power. How would Cien possibly sense a real Mugetsu's spiritual power? Also there's the fact that he survives it...
Click to expand...
That's why I said minimum 5-C, aka Base Aizen level. I still think 4-A can be argued through certain methods that involve, but are beyond, the sensing. It still involves Aizen, but I won't delve into it since no CRTs are planned soon anyway.
Guacamolefletcher said:
No one has a full translation of SAFWY, and you haven't read the full actual novel. The reddit dropbox version everyone has is a summary translation
Click to expand...
Now I get what you mean. From your wording, it sounded like I watched a YouTube video summarizing it. I've been trying to find the entire novel in Japanese digitally without needing to pay, although I think I'll just have to buy it physically😭. When I acquire it, I'll read it all because, first, I want to understand the story 100% with no loss in trash translations, and second, to clarify some things about the scaling.
Guacamolefletcher said:
If you think Cien is stronger than the espada because of a moment when his spiritual pressure swelled up for a bit, then you're mistaken. Read the scans in the actual profiles:
Click to expand...

I don't use the Yammy statement for my scaling for Cien. It's ridiculous to think that 30% Cien is > than 100% Yammy and all the other Espada. However, I do believe that 100% Cien is > than Yammy, even if it's not by a massive amount.

I still argue against the idea that everything Roka copies is always weaker in some way and that her copying is limited by power level or something similar. It does happen, but unless everything I'm saying is directly contradicted in the raw Japanese, Zommari and the Cero Doble have reasons for their failure beyond Roka's power level.
 
Im probably evil for even thinking of this but i would laugh a bit if Kubo said SAFWY and CFYOW are not canon right after you all got done working on them.
I don't expect it to happen at all(or want it to happen) but i would in all honesty chuckle a bit.
 
I don't think that will happen, there could be two situations. He will lead the end of the anime so that there are no loose ends in the main plot and SAFWY, CFYOW would just be complements. Or will he just change some information that was given later in these two
 
Malekith said:
I don't think that will happen, there could be two situations. He will lead the end of the anime so that there are no loose ends in the main plot and SAFWY, CFYOW would just be complements. Or will he just change some information that was given later in these two
Click to expand...
Yee,i agree on that.
 
Kubo's comment on his club~
“When we wanted to dub this week’s anime episodes, Shunsui’s voice actor made the mistake of going to the second episode’s dubbing studio, which made me laugh.By the way, also last week, Ukitake's voice actor went to the second chorus dubbing studio.As if they were “performing Shunsui and Jushiro” preparing for something.”
 
skippy said:
Kubo's comment on his club~
“When we wanted to dub this week’s anime episodes, Shunsui’s voice actor made the mistake of going to the second episode’s dubbing studio, which made me laugh.By the way, also last week, Ukitake's voice actor went to the second chorus dubbing studio.As if they were “performing Shunsui and Jushiro” preparing for something.”
Click to expand...
wow
Just imagine voicing a bleach character in this studio.
 
Ovy7 said:
New stuff from Klub. Apparently if Ichigo could Hollowfy properly after the Ulquiorra fight (he was afraid of his Hollow powers so he couldn't Hollowfy properly), then Ichigo would have gone into his H2 form. Basically a controlled VL/Full Hollow Ichigo.
Click to expand...
What do you mean "H2 form"?
 
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