BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

I don't care what you find absurd Raven, take your incredulity elsewhere. Characters not being stated to be unsensible doesn't debunk or refute my logic. In fact that isn't a part of my argument at all. My argument is that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The onus is on you to prove that Ichibe's reiatsu is unsensible

Because nobody is unsensible and it depends on your opponent. So you saying unsensible as if it means Aizen can't be sensed by any Shinigami, but we accept him as not transcendent. You're treating him like he's on another realm of Shinigami yet don't accept him as such. This means he isn't unsensible thus u don't need that statement especially since we don't accept him as transcendent and nobody is truly transcendent. Nice try

if you wanna scale him to that level. And the argument of "oh well Grimmjow was gonna fight him and we aren't explicitly told his reiatsu is sensible" isn't an argument, as per my refutations.

He didn't sense his power at all not just fact he's stronger ur gunna have to prove he sensed him when I explained how nobody in bleach could sense ichibei

No it didn't cuz the Getsuga burst through the shell. The shell explicitly did not stop the attack.

It was covering him so yea it did

That doesn't need to be said specifically, this is a nonsequitur

Wtf does this even mean can u use normal words

to my argument. Again you're asserting that absence of evidence is evidence of absence, which is a logical fallacy.

It is

I agree that Condom Aizen and Ichibe aren't WSK level. As I said before, I think Fourth Fusion Aizen is WSK level.


You'd have to prove Ichibe can sense Aizen, if you want to make that claim.

Because he's far beyond Kisuke and hasn't been sensed by anybody in the series. And he doesn't have a sealed state like Senjumaru so you're gunna have to prove he does cause when I brought up there being one seal left y'all said it just represented who was alive according to their pack n now we accept Ichibei as having a seal I should of debunked this

That's not my logic, stop strawmanning my arguments.

I don't even know wat this means

 

[Crobatman44]

Low key Raven’s argument borders on confidence scaling for Grimmjow, when bro is notoriously a fraud and overestimates himself. He was gonna try fight TSI too, and he’s still a fraud capping below base Aizen and Respira

Grimmjow if he actually had to fight any version of Vollständig quilge or any version of Askin in a 1 v 1 ☠

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Low key Raven’s argument borders on confidence scaling for Grimmjow, when bro is notoriously a fraud and overestimates himself. He was gonna try fight TSI too, and he’s still a fraud capping below base Aizen and Respira

Couldn't sense Ichigo

 

[Arcker123]

Average Raven ramble

 

[Arcker123]

Wtf does this even mean can u use normal words

Classic

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

You're not allowed to mention me ^

 

[Arcker123]

You're not allowed to mention me ^

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

honestly I haven’t seen a single good argument for Ichibei being that strong. He’s super strong, undoubtedly, just has nothing on the transformed versions of Aizen.

 

[Arcker123]

@Twisted_Little_Raven

A non sequitur is an argument that is logically fallacious because by definition a non sequitur makes a conclusion that is not entailed by the evidence or antecedent.

Arc is claiming that you saying:

It's just a protective layer. Did they say "the shell can be sensed but the real him can't" I doubt it says this specifically.

Is a non sequitur fallacy because nothing arc said leads to the conclusion that this needs to be said.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Because nobody is unsensible and it depends on your opponent. So you saying unsensible as if it means Aizen can't be sensed by any Shinigami, but we accept him as not transcendent. You're treating him like he's on another realm of Shinigami yet don't accept him as such. This means he isn't unsensible thus u don't need that statement especially since we don't accept him as transcendent and nobody is truly transcendent. Nice try

You're equivocating transcendence to the inability to be sensed. And then you're claiming I said that. That is a strawman, as you are asserting that I am arguing something I never claimed. This is a complete and utter nonsequitur as I never made such a claim.

He didn't sense his power at all not just fact he's stronger ur gunna have to prove he sensed him when I explained how nobody in bleach could sense ichibei

No I don't, stop shifting the burden. You claimed that Grimmjow cannot sense Ichibe, you must prove that claim, the onus is on you.

It was covering him so yea it did

No it didn't. This point isn't relevant to the debate anyway, since prior to one shotting the Bleach Sannin Aizen wasn't going all out. Isshin's attack doesn't limit the durability of a full power Condom Aizen.

Wtf does this even mean can u use normal words

Google it. I'm not going to explain the most simple debate terminology to you, you've clearly got access to the internet, which means you have access to a dictionary.

It is

Cool you're agreeing to committing a logical fallacy. Nice concession.

Because he's far beyond Kisuke and hasn't been sensed by anybody in the series. And he doesn't have a sealed state like Senjumaru so you're gunna have to prove he does cause when I brought up there being one seal left y'all said it just represented who was alive according to their pack n now we accept Ichibei as having a seal I should of debunked this

Prove he hasn't been sensed. You've continuously claimed such without any evidence or logical proof. Via Hitchen's Razor I can dismiss such claims with equivocal claims lacking any evidence or logical proof. Ichibe having or not having a seal isn't relevant to the debate, it is again a nonsequitur.

I don't even know wat this means

You know you're having a good debate when they don't even know what strawmanning means.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Average ramble isn't an argument child

honestly I haven’t seen a single good argument for Ichibei being that strong. He’s super strong, undoubtedly, just has nothing on the transformed versions of Aizen.

I just explained it to you

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Average ramble isn't an argument child

I just explained it to you

He's calling your explanation aka your argument ass Raven.

 

[Arcker123]

Average ramble isn't an argument child

Define and show a modus ponens argument

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

You're equivocating transcendence to the inability to be sensed. And then you're claiming I said that. That is a strawman, as you are asserting that I am arguing something I never claimed. This is a complete and utter nonsequitur as I never made such a claim.

You're arguing it by default with unsensible as the term isn't technically real

No I don't, stop shifting the burden. You claimed that Grimmjow cannot sense Ichibe, you must prove that claim, the onus is on you.

I shifted yes because there is no proof he was able to tell Ichibei was strong at all or ts Ichigo

Google it. I'm not going to explain the most simple debate terminology to you, you've clearly got access to the internet, which means you have access to a dictionary.

No

Prove he hasn't been sensed. You've continuously claimed such without any evidence or logical proof. Via Hitchen's Razor I can dismiss such claims with equivocal claims lacking any evidence or logical proof. Ichibe having or not having a seal isn't relevant to the debate, it is again a nonsequitur.

Because Senjumaru a hax bankai shook the realms and was sensed (not really but for this argument let's say so) Ichibei also a hax bankai wasn't sensed. And Senju should be > Sealed Ichibei even tho sealed Ichibei isn't a real thing. So Ichibei should still be above the Senjumaru that was sensed as his power isn't sealed

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Now it's on you to prove Ichibei is sealed

 

[Deceived3596]

Arc's assertions are axiomatic.

He doesn't need to prove anything.

 

[Arcker123]

Arc's assertions are axiomatic.

Hitchens razor gg unfortunately axioms aren't justified

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Arc's assertions are axiomatic.

He doesn't need to prove anything.

Somebody needs to prove Ichibei is sealed otherwise I proved he can't be sensed. Nothing he said is proof

 

[Deceived3596]

Hitchens razor gg unfortunately axioms aren't justified

You're compromising the dialectic.

Don't talk over me or I will kick you from the call.

 

[Arcker123]

You're compromising the dialectic.

Don't talk over me or I will kick you from the call.

What is it, in your worldview, that is ultimate, and grounds possibility and impossibility

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Somebody needs to prove Ichibei is sealed otherwise I proved he can't be sensed. Nothing he said is proof

No takers?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

You're arguing it by default with unsensible as the term isn't technically real

No I'm not. The inability to be sensed is a thing in Bleach.

I shifted yes because there is no proof he was able to tell Ichibei was strong at all or ts Ichigo

You have to prove that. You're conceding that you attempted to shift the burden, and thus are conceding you didn't prove your claim.

No

"In the age of the internet and vastly accessible information, ignorance is a choice."

Because Senjumaru a hax bankai shook the realms and was sensed (not really but for this argument let's say so) Ichibei also a hax bankai wasn't sensed. And Senju should be > Sealed Ichibei even tho sealed Ichibei isn't a real thing. So Ichibei should still be above the Senjumaru that was sensed as his power isn't sealed

This isn't coherent english but pop off. You spouted a bunch of unjustified claims. You made a bunch of assertions and didn't actually prove anything. I made no claim in this debate about a Ichibe being sealed. This is just a complete tangent and nonsequitur to the debate. You're making a bunch of speculative claims.

Arc's assertions are axiomatic.

She doesn't know what that means.

Somebody needs to prove Ichibei is sealed otherwise I proved he can't be sensed. Nothing he said is proof

This logic doesn't follow. Ichibe being sealed or not holds no barring on whether or not he can be sensed. Proof entails evidence, that which you have not provided.

 

[Arcker123]

Raven in order for people to engage with your arguments you need to speak intelligibly

 

[Crobatman44]

No I'm not. The inability to be sensed is a thing in Bleach.


You have to prove that. You're conceding that you attempted to shift the burden, and thus are conceding you didn't prove your claim.


"In the age of the internet and vastly accessible information, ignorance is a choice."


This isn't coherent english but pop off. You spouted a bunch of unjustified claims. You made a bunch of assertions and didn't actually prove anything. I made no claim in this debate about a Ichibe being sealed. This is just a complete tangent and nonsequitur to the debate. Ichibe hasn't even used Bankai in the anime yet, we have no idea how his Bankai will be portrayed in comparison to Shutara, since such comparison is nonexistent in the manga. You're making a bunch of speculative claims.


She doesn't know what that means.


This logic doesn't follow. Ichibe being sealed or not holds no barring on whether or not he can be sensed. Proof entails evidence, that which you have not provided.

Wait no Arc he did use shirafune ichimonji tho?

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Raven in order for people to engage with your arguments you need to speak intelligibly

I'm not engaging with you at all idiot

 

[Deceived3596]

Ad hominem

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Wait no Arc he did use shirafune ichimonji tho?

My bad you right, doesn't really change what I said tho.

 

[Arcker123]

I'm not engaging with you at all idiot

If you were even a quarter as intelligent as you impossibly believe yourself to be, you would realize that I never even claimed to be engaging with you.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Average ramble isn't an argument child

Can you lower the ego to where it can at least seem ironic?

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

No I'm not. The inability to be sensed is a thing in Bleach.

It's relative to power. so no it isn't since we have proof he's not transcendent

You have to prove that. You're conceding that you attempted to shift the burden, and thus are conceding you didn't prove your claim.

I don't think either of us can prove this not the core of my argument dude

"In the age of the internet and vastly accessible information, ignorance is a choice."

Ok

This isn't coherent english but pop off. You spouted a bunch of unjustified claims. You made a bunch of assertions and didn't actually prove anything. I made no claim in this debate about a Ichibe being sealed.

It's relevant to the fact he can't be sensed

This is just a complete tangent and nonsequitur to the debate. Ichibe hasn't even used Bankai in the anime yet,

Yes he did dummy

we have no idea how his Bankai will be portrayed in comparison to Shutara, since such comparison is nonexistent in the manga. You're making a bunch of speculative claims.


She doesn't know what that means.


This logic doesn't follow. Ichibe being sealed or not holds no barring on whether or not he can be sensed. Proof entails evidence, that which you have not provided.

Because Senjumaru could and he couldn't be among the other examples of people not sensing him

 

[Deceived3596]

Wikipedia warriors will dominate this conversation.

 

[KingNanaya]

 

[Crobatman44]

My bad you right, doesn't really change what I said tho.

Yeah i was just confused for a sec cause everything else you said tracks.

 

[Arcker123]

It's relative to power. so no it isn't since we have proof he's not transcendent

Raven can't construct a coherent chain of reasoning to save her life.

Like what the hell is this supposed to even mean? Is this a rebuttal?

 

[Crobatman44]

Raven:Ichibei ain't sealed
My rotted brain that desires any Sternritter wanks 4-A Royd i see i see.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I have no idea where Raven gets her inflated ego nor what justifies in her head this immense pride and "I'm better than you" attitude. Like she gets visibly upset when people don't take her seriously, acts the way she acts, and then wonders why. Crazy.

It's relative to power. so no it isn't since we have proof he's not transcendent

I never claimed anything about Condom Aizen's transcendence. I've just been talking about his inability to be sensed. Can you for the love of all that is good, stay on track.

I don't think either of us can prove this not the core of my argument dude

You blatantly conceding to shifting the burden. You made the initial positive claim, therefore the onus is on you to prove such. But thank you for conceding that you cannot prove such.

Ok

Admission to ignorance.

It's relevant to the fact he can't be sensed

No it isn't? How does Ichibe > Shutara provide any relevancy to Ichibe being unable to be sensed? That argument only follows if you think Shutara cannot be sensed. In which case, that is another unsubstantiated claim you are providing, that you would in turn have to prove.

Yes he did dummy

My bad you right, doesn't really change what I said tho.

Don't call me a dummy

Because Senjumaru could and he couldn't be among the other examples of people not sensing him

Senjumaru could what? Speak in complete sentences.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

It means unsensible isn't a thing in bleach in actuality. He's treating is as it's own tier of power far beyond Ichibei but whether or not you can be sensed depends on the opponent. We accept actual transcends as WSK or higher I believe and condom Aizen isn't that. Meaning take any number below WSK and he would be sensible somewhere there. He's not truly unsensible nobody is. So treating is as it's own realm of power must mean y'all treat it as transcendent since by y'all logic Senjumaru can be sensed and then next tier after her is WSK. Ichibei is above Senjumaru and can't be sensed which is similar ballpark

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It means unsensible isn't a thing in bleach in actuality. He's treating is as it's own tier of power far beyond Ichibei but whether or not you can be sensed depends on the opponent.

The inability to be sensed is a thing in Bleach, I provided scans early. I'm not treating anything like that, you initiated this Ichibe stuff by claiming Grimmjow couldn't sense him, and I've been slamming you on your head about that topic this entire debate.

We accept actual transcends as WSK or higher I believe and condom Aizen isn't that. Meaning take any number below WSK and he would be sensible somewhere there.

It is stated that if someone were on the same level as Aizen they'd sense him, never argued against that.

He's not truly unsensible nobody is. So treating is as it's own realm of power must mean y'all treat it as transcendent

No one, except you, has claimed that the inability to be sensed is its own realm of power like transcendent.

by y'all logic Senjumaru can be sealed and then next tier after her is WSK.

No one said that the next tier beyond Senjumaru is WSK tier.

Ichibei is above Senjumaru and can't be sensed which is similar ballpark

You have not proven that Ichibe cannot be sensed. Hitchen's razor gg.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

I have no idea where Raven gets her inflated ego nor what justifies in her head this immense pride and "I'm better than you" attitude. Like she gets visibly upset when people don't take her seriously, acts the way she acts, and then wonders why. Crazy.

What made u type all this? Because I called that person a child? I just don't like them

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

What made u type all this? Because I called that person a child? I just don't like them

My motivations are self-evident, even a child could understand them.