Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

What? Can you prove Toji was faster than Gojo perception or not? All I saw in the fight was clearly toji was little faster not that Gojo couldn't keep up. Otherwise as you said if Toji would Perception blitz why would he create a Blind spot?

Show me one scan where Gojo couldn't keep up with Tojis speed? Dude was clearly looking at Toji all the time. Toji never even tried to perception blitz Gojo.


Despite Gojo himself states he can't point out position objects easily. So narrative already sets a limits to it. Later on series he never stated he completed that.

I would take Gojos Statement over yours.
Dude even caught lacking due to this.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_16_05.jpg

What? Can you prove Toji was faster than Gojo perception or not? All I saw in the fight was clearly toji was little faster not that Gojo couldn't keep up. Otherwise as you said if Toji would Perception blitz why would he create a Blind spot?

You're not reading . I don't need to prove that he's faster than Gojo's reaction speeds. Like I specified, he can be faster than Gojo's perception by getting him caught off guard, going through blind spots, etc.
"little faster" Uh, he was quite fast, but not my point.
"Perception blitz" not in that way.

Show me one scan where Gojo couldn't keep up with Tojis speed? Dude was clearly looking at Toji all the time. Toji never even tried to perception blitz Gojo.

already explained as to what I meant.

Despite Gojo himself states he can't point out position objects easily. So narrative already sets a limits to it. Later on series he never stated he completed that.

Irrelevant to my point again. Do I really have to repeat myself? I don't ******* agree with your "limited to gojo's perception" interpretation of how infinity works. "Later on series he never stated he completed that" He says he has been working on it, like how he says he is working up on teleportation, and ALSO domain, which we see him using the latter . no way you're trying to argue something like this.

I would take Gojos Statement over yours. Dude even caught lacking due to this.

yeah I would also definitely take the actual true interpretation of how infinity works rather than this pure nonsense interpretation about Infinity being limited to Gojo's speed perception

scan

what does this even prove?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Ain't going Bother replying to all of that. At best Agree to disagree brother. If you want to believe he can stop anything above his Perception speed sure keep believing it.

My argument are based on scans you didn't even provided single scans where Gojo blocking attacks which are above his Perception.

I am going to stick to this. He has some limitations for his infinity. His words points out how it's based on Perception of speed , mass and shape

He did states he can short out using mass , speed and shape. Also he literally pointed out he can't short out poison. It's obviously based on perception.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_76_09.jpg

 

[YukaSama4]

https://imgur.io/a/NULTg7z

Which translation is this? The one I brought is TCB, we will probably need someone to check the raws or wait for viz

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Which translation is this? The one I brought is TCB, we will probably need someone to check the raws or wait for viz

Mya also said something about its because Gojos cursed energy he got less affected. If i am remembering his leaked version.

 

[YukaSama4]

Despite Gojo himself states he can't point out position objects easily. So narrative already sets a limits to it. Later on series he never stated he completed that.

I would take Gojos Statement over yours.
Dude even caught lacking due to this.

That was after a DE which he couldn't use his CT.

Anyways I think the more probable reasons are
1) Gojo's infinity didn't recognise purple as a dangerous object because its made from the same CE

2) Gojo, Sukuna and Mahoraga were next to each other so maybe Mahoraga's adaptation messed with the infinity

Mya also said something about its because Gojos cursed energy he got less affected. If i am remembering his leaked version.

Yeah

 

[YukaSama4]

On a side note Kusakabe has the same voice actor as the goat Kisuke Urahara, makes sense why he's smart and knowledgeable about jujutsu and these things ig

 

[Gokukid2005]

On a side note we have finally seen Gojo using his teleportation/compressing space ability, he speed blitzed Mahoraga and nuked the final boss room with HP

(A lil late so you probably know this by now but)
That wasn't his tp ability, it was blue pulling him and it didn't affect Mahoraga cause he's adapted to blue already.
He did however use the ability in the same chapter it was explained by Kusakabe.
That's why Sukuna noted his "speed" right before its revealed he had gotten his technique back abnormally fast.

 

[eibwen]

(A lil late so you probably know this by now but)
That wasn't his tp ability, it was blue pulling him and it didn't affect Mahoraga cause he's adapted to blue already.
He did however use the ability in the same chapter it was explained by Kusakabe.
That's why Sukuna noted his "speed" right before its revealed he had gotten his technique back abnormally fast.

cringe feats moment for treating teleportation as speed

 

[eibwen]

Ain't going Bother replying to all of that. At best Agree to disagree brother. If you want to believe he can stop anything above his Perception speed sure keep believing it.

My argument are based on scans you didn't even provided single scans where Gojo blocking attacks which are above his Perception.

I am going to stick to this. He has some limitations for his infinity. His words points out how it's based on Perception of speed , mass and shape

here's my theory
not sure if it works but here we go
so, we're already know that cleave has speed (and shape, maybe, but cleary speed) as gojo's infinity can stop it
and now, lets look into the part where maho cuts of gojos hand, since theres no way gojo is slower than maho, and given that six eyes is an omniscient hax to observe jujutsu, gojo should've dodge that thing instead of being cut, hence cleave is faster than gojo, and gojo infinity can stop things that faster than him

 

[YukaSama4]

Gojo was able to see dismantle apparently but he couldn't see Mahoraga's slashes, was it cleave or dismantle we don't know.

(A lil late so you probably know this by now but)
That wasn't his tp ability, it was blue pulling him and it didn't affect Mahoraga cause he's adapted to blue already.

Yeah

 

[eibwen]

Gojo was able to see dismantle apparently but he couldn't see Mahoraga's slashes, was it cleave or dismantle we don't know.

it doesnt make sense for gojo not to see mahoraga's slashes tho? it just how six eyes works , unless maho suddenly can negates visions or something?

 

[YukaSama4]

Either he didn't expect it so he was smh off guarded and couldn't react in time, or he was blitzed without seeing it

 

[YukaSama4]

Spoiler

Im really confused how Gojo believe Megumi and others could reach his level, even Sukuna with the 10S lost despite Gojo stating that Sukuna is on his level in terms of CT usage skills.
I think next chapter will be one of these options

Sukuna using Yorozu's gift and his open technique.

Someone will interrupt the fight.

Sukuna wasnt fighting with his fullpower, his fullpower is sealed due to his binding vow with Kenjaku (headcanon but let's cook).

Sukuna lost as a sorcerer to Gojo but his real form surpasses sorcerers since its a state between curse and sorcerer, so he didnt use it because he wanted to fight Gojo as a sorcerer, next chapter he will transform (headcanon too)

Sukuna will die and will come later with the last finger and regain his full power, Gege stated Gojo was wrong in believing Sukuna is using the fingers to regain his power, I think this will be a key in Gojo's defeat


I know some people are theorising something with totality but I think thats way too obvious thing to happen, Gojo already knows everything about the technique so I dont think he will be caught offguarded by totality, both characters couldnt defeat each other with obvious methods throughout this fight so I dont think totality is an option, Gege stated there are rules for totality or something like that and we dont know them.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Spoiler

Im really confused how Gojo believe Megumi and others could reach his level, even Sukuna with the 10S lost despite Gojo stating that Sukuna is on his level in terms of CT usage skills.
I think next chapter will be one of these options

Sukuna using Yorozu's gift and his open technique.

Someone will interrupt the fight.

Sukuna wasnt fighting with his fullpower, his fullpower is sealed due to his binding vow with Kenjaku (headcanon but let's cook).

Sukuna lost as a sorcerer to Gojo but his real form surpasses sorcerers since its a state between curse and sorcerer, so he didnt use it because he wanted to fight Gojo as a sorcerer, next chapter he will transform (headcanon too)

Sukuna will die and will come later with the last finger and regain his full power, Gege stated Gojo was wrong in believing Sukuna is using the fingers to regain his power, I think this will be a key in Gojo's defeat


I know some people are theorising something with totality but I think thats way too obvious thing to happen, Gojo already knows everything about the technique so I dont think he will be caught offguarded by totality, both characters couldnt defeat each other with obvious methods throughout this fight so I dont think totality is an option, Gege stated there are rules for totality or something like that and we dont know them.

Here is my theory/headcanon for now.

Sukuna probably reshapes his soul and heals his wounds like Mahito and starts fighting for real (Though fighting for real means I think he was holding back his CE consumption. I don't think he hold back any other things at best)

Sukuna transforms into 4 arms and uses Open Technique which probably has CT Nullification hax like Angel. Or Sukuna treasures can bypass Infinity like Inverted spear. Or Sukuna coats his treasures with DA and makes them Bypass Infinity.

Or

Sukuna might get an backstory and Ends the Chapter by Megumi getting saved and Sukuna dying with satisfaction.

---

Kashimo one time CT is pending if either Gojo wins or Sukuna wins Gege can just Uno reverse and play the card. I mean he can still Eliminate Gojo or Sukuna by giving some busted power to Kashimo.

What I think is If Somehow Sukuna makes a comeback and wins Kashimo would jump in next and weakens Sukuna and other students would be able to fight Sukuna because of that

But if Gojo wins same thing may happen and Kenjaku might jump in and Kills weakend Gojo and runs away..

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Gojo was able to see dismantle apparently but he couldn't see Mahoraga's slashes, was it cleave or dismantle we don't know

it doesnt make sense for gojo not to see mahoraga's slashes tho? it just how six eyes works , unless maho suddenly can negates visions or something?

@Arkenis said it's just condensed CE. And I opt to believe that. It's pretty much introduced Shrine and TS can't be used at once and Mahogara slash left burning affect in background of the building which only CE blast would do. Dismantle never shown to give that effect.

 

[YukaSama4]

Sukuna transforms into 4 arms and uses Open Technique which probably has CT Nullification hax like Angel.

Nah giving Sukuna CT nullification would be bs and an asspull from Gege just to get rid of Gojo.

Or Sukuna coats his treasures with DA and makes them Bypass Infinity.

This makes more sense yeah

Sukuna might get an backstory and Ends the Chapter by Megumi getting saved and Sukuna dying with satisfaction.

It's possible that we will get a flashback talking about Sukuna and Kenjaku

 

[Arkenis]

@Arkenis said it's just condensed CE. And I opt to believe that. It's pretty much introduced Shrine and TS can't be used at once and Mahogara slash left burning affect in background of the building which only CE blast would do. Dismantle never shown to give that effect.

Just to further add onto this, I saw someone bring up how Maho cut gojo and how that shouldn't have happened unless he can blitz his perception speed; the thing about Maho is that his adaptation makes him adapt to any phenomena, when this happens he doesn't just gain resistance or become less weak against the phenomena, he adapts to it in it's entirety. As we saw with Sukuna, he was able to defend and see the slash coming, so what is happening is he himself can bypass infinity now, the same way he adapted and could attack Yorozu's sphere.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Nah giving Sukuna CT nullification would be bs and an asspull from Gege just to get rid of Gojo.

Not really especially. We don't have complete information on his CT. The fact Gege said atleast 2. So potential he already planned all of this from the start. The fact he is keeping introducing new abilities makes more sense.

 

[YukaSama4]

Not really especially. We don't have complete information on his CT. The fact Gege said atleast 2. So potential he already planned all of this from the start. The fact he is keeping introducing new abilities makes more sense.

It's bs, giving one of these 2 a direct counter to the another one would be a shit writing.
It's as if Gojo unlocked anti shikigami ability when Sukuna used the 10S, no one would've accepted this.

Just to further add onto this, I saw someone bring up how Maho cut gojo and how that shouldn't have happened unless he can blitz his perception speed; the thing about Maho is that his adaptation makes him adapt to any phenomena, when this happens he doesn't just gain resistance or become less weak against the phenomena, he adapts to it in it's entirety. As we saw with Sukuna, he was able to defend and see the slash coming, so what is happening is he himself can bypass infinity now, the same way he adapted and could attack Yorozu's sphere.

Not 100%
They argued that since Mahoraga can use Sukuna's slashes, and he could blitz Gojo with it (Gojo couldn't react at all) while we know that Sukuna's slashes normally don't work on the infinity which is why he was using DA, then Gojo's infinity isn't limited by things that his perception speed can see

 

[Arkenis]

then Gojo's infinity isn't limited by things that his perception speed can see

this has always been a dumb argument honestly. Gojo never needed to see things to stop them, he tends to stop even from behind him so it's more that you'd probably need to bypass his Six Eyes senses altogether than just their perception speed.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It's bs, giving one of these 2 a direct counter to the another one would be a shit writing.
It's as if Gojo unlocked anti shikigami ability when Sukuna used the 10S, no one would've accepted this.

Well we already have invented CT like Simple Domain and DA to nullifying opponent CT. So I wouldn't be surprised if he had CT like that.

Also if anything I am betting on Sukuna CT being Gluttony & he has Angel CT.

 

[Arkenis]

Nah giving Sukuna CT nullification would be bs and an asspull from Gege just to get rid of Gojo.

why do u think this?

 

[YukaSama4]

Well we already have invented CT like Simple Domain and DA to nullifying opponent CT. So I wouldn't be surprised if he had CT like that.

Also if anything I am betting on Sukuna CT being Gluttony & he has Angel CT.

why do u think this?

To give a more clear example, it will be similar to how Kubo gave Nanao a sword that can reflect the power of god to kill Lille, or how he created the silver arrow to shut down Yhwach hax, and it's the reason I don't want Yuji to get a CT that directly counter Sukuna's, I want it to be similar to this fight where Gojo and Sukuna are using their abilities and trying to out maneuver and out smart each other, giving one character a direct counter to his opponent ability to settle the battle would always be a bad writing for me

 

[Arkenis]

Also if anything I am betting on Sukuna CT being Gluttony & he has Angel CT.

Feel like this Gluttony/Food theory for Sukuna has always been too on the mark for representing Sukuna, the guys already properly shown as a hedonist, and having this whole "he's holding back" another aspect of his CT could work but I think it would've come out by now.

I think a better route is finally explaining the Black Box to us and how sorcerers are actually able to house multiple ct within them. I wouldn't be surprised if Sukuna can copy or manifest aspects of a CT or the whole CT from whatever host he had prior. It would go together with Kenjaku still having Kaori's CT and then with Sukuna he'd have Yuji's CT which would maybe be some other form of gravity manipulation and we could get a flashback with Sukuna and Kenjaku talking about it.

 

[YukaSama4]

Simple domains don't negate CTs, it negate the sure hits and not really a counter because it depends on how strong your opponent barruer is, DA does but in return you can't use your own CTs, the thing we are talking about now is far more different than these 2 things, it's basically shutting down the limitless and having Gojo fighting with CE manipulation while Sukuna throws slashes fire and everything he has.

 

[YukaSama4]

I think a better route is finally explaining the Black Box to us and how sorcerers are actually able to house multiple ct within them. I wouldn't be surprised if Sukuna can copy or manifest aspects of a CT or the whole CT from whatever host he had prior. It would go together with Kenjaku still having Kaori's CT and then with Sukuna he'd have Yuji's CT which would maybe be some other form of gravity manipulation and we could get a flashback with Sukuna and Kenjaku talking about it.

According to Yuki, you can have 4 CTs at once but to have more you need to have external storage.
If Sukuna follows the same rules, and assuming he doesn't have external storage, he can still have 3 more CTs.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Not really especially. We don't have complete information on his CT. The fact Gege said atleast 2. So potential he already planned all of this from the start. The fact he is keeping introducing new abilities makes more sense.

That would be bad writing, it would trivialise the importance of Ten Shadows if Sukuna had technique nullification already and could've killed Gojo immediately

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

According to Yuki, you can have 4 CTs at once but to have more you need to have external storage.
If Sukuna follows the same rules, and assuming he doesn't have external storage, he can still have 3 more CTs.

Wait when did she said that?

Btw regarding Kenjaku i believe it stated in databook he can't keep previous vessel CT. He most probably has different ways to store it. Having Kaori CT is may be that external storage thing.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Well we already have invented CT like Simple Domain and DA to nullifying opponent CT. So I wouldn't be surprised if he had CT like that.

Simple Domains don't neutralize CTs like DA does, it gets explained that Simple Domain and Hollow Wicker Basket neutralize barriers imbued with a CT rather than the CT itself and those neutralizing techniques are anti-domain/non-innate techniques, not CTs which are innate

 

[YukaSama4]

Wait when did she said that?

Btw regarding Kenjaku i believe it stated in databook he can't keep previous vessel CT. He most probably has different ways to store it. Having Kaori CT is may be that external storage thing.

External storage means you have something outside where you're storing CTs with, similar to how Yuta stores CTs in Rika, Kenjaku doesn't have this.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That would be bad writing, it would trivialise the importance of Ten Shadows if Sukuna had technique nullification already and could've killed Gojo immediately

These kind of arguments are really bad

"He has no way to bypass infinity because if he had he would have already used it"

The thing is Sukuna made a vow to kill Gojo even before knowledge on Mahogara. Just thinking about Sukuna doesn't have anything to bypass infinity is just bs Arguments at this point. Using one way to bypass Infinity ≠ He doens't have any other ways. Well CT Nullification may be big strength but he can get some Distance Ignoring thing or some other hax if Gege will it. Just thinking of him being strongest character in history without any big abilities doesn't make sense.

Haha beside Sukuna most probably gonna die in next chapter anyway. We are just talking hypothetically.

Well I guess we will see it in next chapter.

 

[YukaSama4]

The thing is Sukuna made a vow to kill Gojo even before knowledge on Mahogara. Just thinking about Sukuna doesn't have anything to bypass infinity is just bs Arguments at this point. Using one way to bypass Infinity ≠ He doens't have any other ways.

He knows DA and his DE is strong enough

 

[SunDaGamer]

These kind of arguments are really bad

"He has no way to bypass infinity because if he had he would have already used it"

How is this a bad argument, Sukuna risking death from Unlimited Void just to get Mahoraga to adapt to Infinity and using Domain Amplification, which causes Ten Shadows to deactivate, when he could've bypassed Infinity with his own technique the whole time just makes Sukuna look stupid, I'd also be pretty mad at Gege for wasting my time over the last 3 months with the manufactured stakes of Mahoraga's involvement or buildup to Ten Shadows rivalling Limitless. Like he had us on cliffhangers for weeks about Mahoraga, making it pointless by giving Sukuna Limitless nullification with his Innate Technique is bad writing.

 

[Arkenis]

The thing is Sukuna made a vow to kill Gojo even before knowledge on Mahogara. Just thinking about Sukuna doesn't have anything to bypass infinity is just bs Arguments at this point. Using one way to bypass Infinity ≠ He doens't have any other ways. Well CT Nullification may be big strength but he can get some Distance Ignoring thing or some other hax if Gege will it. Just thinking of him being strongest character in history without any big abilities doesn't make sense.

It could play into his overconfidence in himself, thinking no one, not even the Six Eyes could beat him. And Kenjaku also had affirmed that Sukuna was the strongest sorcerer he had ever seen. I think looking at it from writing Sukuna as a character, he's felt solitude all his life due to his strength and now Gojo is here to show him up and even dethrone him from that position, it may end up satisfying Sukuna more than he was before.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

How is this a bad argument, Sukuna risking death from Unlimited Void just to get Mahoraga to adapt to Infinity and using Domain Amplification, which causes Ten Shadows to deactivate, when he could've bypassed Infinity with his own technique the whole time just makes Sukuna look stupid, I'd also be pretty mad at Gege for wasting my time over the last 3 months with the manufactured stakes of Mahoraga's involvement or buildup to Ten Shadows rivalling Limitless.

If I would have to complain anything I would like to complain if Gege makes next chapter as Sukuna seeking help from others. That's just ruins his hype. Either he should just lose at this point or he should make a comeback on his own.

It could play into his overconfidence in himself, thinking no one, not even the Six Eyes could beat him. And Kenjaku also had affirmed that Sukuna was the strongest sorcerer he had ever seen. I think looking at it from writing Sukuna as a character, he's felt solitude all his life due to his strength and now Gojo is here to show him up and even dethrone him from that position, it may end up satisfying Sukuna more than he was before.

But you see KENJAKU has already faced six eye and limitless users twice and lost and he still claims Sukuna is undisputed. So do we still need to believe Sukuna didn't had any ways to bypass infinity?

He also currently had hopes that Sukuna might win. I don't think he was just betting on TS and DA alone.

 

[Arkenis]

It could play into his overconfidence in himself, thinking no one, not even the Six Eyes could beat him. And Kenjaku also had affirmed that Sukuna was the strongest sorcerer he had ever seen. I think looking at it from writing Sukuna as a character, he's felt solitude all his life due to his strength and now Gojo is here to show him up and even dethrone him from that position, it may end up satisfying Sukuna more than he was before.

I also think Kenjaku needs to be the final villain, Gege has to do away with Sukuna somehow and what better way than him being dethroned? Gojo will be incapacitated either due to brain damage or loss of his Six Eyes, it'll remove the two strongest respectfully and give way to the new generation to deal with Kenjaku.

Also yeah it would devalue getting TS if Sukuna just whips out something completely new besides the Black Box or Yorozu's gift. Gege could spin it somehow but it'll definitely feel like Megumi losing his sister meant nothing and Sukuna waiting on Megumi also meant nothing since he always had something else.

 

[Arkenis]

But you see KENJAKU has already faced six eye and limitless users twice and lost and he still claims Sukuna is undisputed. So do we still need to believe Sukuna didn't had any ways to bypass infinity?

He also currently had hopes that Sukuna might win. I don't think he was just betting on TS and DA alone.

Well that's the point, Sukuna was considered so powerful he was deemed even above Six Eyes but now it's different, this is a new era of sorcerers, sorcerers who are capable of fighting golden age sorcerers, who scale far below Gojo. I think it makes sense Gojo breaks that aforementioned belief Kenjaku had and triumphs as this era's strongest while also giving Sukuna what he wanted and what he's been lacking.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Well that's the point, Sukuna was considered so powerful he was deemed even above Six Eyes but now it's different, this is a new era of sorcerers, sorcerers who are capable of fighting golden age sorcerers, who scale far below Gojo. I think it makes sense Gojo breaks that aforementioned belief Kenjaku had and triumphs as this era's strongest while also giving Sukuna what he wanted and what he's been lacking.

Well looks like Sukuna gonna die next chapter and Megumi might get saved by Yujis CT.

Though before that I would atleast needs some information on Sukuna black box and Yorozu gift. I don't think Gege just made things up and forgot like Nobara.

 

[Arkenis]

Well looks like Sukuna gonna die next chapter and Megumi might get saved by Yujis CT.

Though before that I would atleast needs some information on Sukuna black box and Yorozu gift. I don't think Gege just made things up and forgot like Nobara.

Yeah exactly, giving Sukuna some new other CT or ability would just throw away using other untouched stuff.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yeah exactly, giving Sukuna some new other CT or ability would just throw away using other untouched stuff.

Hey Regarding Yuki Black hole
Can you try calculating Tengen Barriers Tanking that?