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and why tf would it be talking about ray of hope again? the demon world has always been superior to the human world and humans were always weaker than demons so its inevitable. there is literally no hope in the first place.
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DMC Downgrades (the ones everyone expected)
- Thread starter Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- devil may cry
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Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,429
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- #402
What the hell are you talking about?
Source on the mirror world being infinite? Also, I don't remember you being @ed before, so I don't think you're supposed to be here.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #403
Palito266
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Ok so you first tell me i can't even understand a metaphor (even though the ******* phrasing made it hard to see wtf you talking about) and now you're the one lost?
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Im talking about that ray of light scan. 2000 years ago the human world and the demon world were in a bitter war. the humans literally had no chance to win against the demons because they were far weaker. It was inevitable. Thats why the 'ray of light' is talking about how little to no chance the humans had and its showing how much superior the demon world is. There is literally no hope to begin with until the events that followed after
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #406
Bro what
This literally takes place prior to there even being a human world and demon world. The ray of light appeared, the world were split, and one became the HW while the other became the DW.
Also, again, I'm 99% sure you aren't supposed to be commenting here. This is a staff thread.
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The issue with the light being a metaphor or justice or hope or something is that it's specifically stated that humans live in that ray of light and that it's a domain and a realm. It's not easy for 6 billion people to live in a metaphor.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #408
Do you think it's easier for humans to live inside a literal ray of light?
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It refers to it as a ray of light because it's different, but it is blatant about humans living in this single non demonic world while the unending and endless darkness is the demon world. The demon world is hell, after all.
This used to be part of qualifying for tier 3 or 2, tier 1 didn't happen until PoC stated that the demon world is higher dimensional and is the origin of 9-D souls.
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all i will say for now is recall poc describing the ray :
Until the first light split the world in half, such stones were nowhere to be found. They are full of the power of the original chaos, but now they are becoming increasingly rare.
Until the first light split the world in half, such stones were nowhere to be found. They are full of the power of the original chaos, but now they are becoming increasingly rare.
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The purpose of making it a staff thread was to get away from all the trolls making meaningless comments to stir up trouble, whereas Robo and myself have been actively involved in the thread and its discussion. It's not a good thing to try to silence your opposition.
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Yes its a ray of light and its so insignificant that the demon world was going to consume the human dimension
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The mirror world is comparable to the human world which is a universe
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That makes no sense. Because even in your TL that reiterates the 3 TLs we've already provided, it VERBATIM STATES: "The Light, the Human World."
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Making it a staff thread is ******* stupid considering the staff who are qualified want nothing to do with the verse and the ones that are want nothing to do with this thread and I don't blame them tbh.
Let the fans actually debate here.
Keep in mind I don't even agree with tier 1 DMC, matter of fact I think anything above tier 2 is a bunch of pretentious, pseudo intellectual bullshit. But I can understand the arguments for it.
Let the fans actually debate here.
Keep in mind I don't even agree with tier 1 DMC, matter of fact I think anything above tier 2 is a bunch of pretentious, pseudo intellectual bullshit. But I can understand the arguments for it.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #416
That's not what I meant. You said that the light can't be a ray of hope because people live in it. I'm saying the same thing would be true for a ray of light, so it's intended to be metaphorical either way.
I'm simply following what was written here. Please stop accusing me of doing shit like this, I'm getting tired of it.
Okay. Doesn't prove qualitative superiority.
Okay. Doesn't mean it's infinite.
That doesn't preclude it from being referred to in metaphors, you know. Any physical object or realm can be said to be a ray of hope, that's what a metaphor is; Describing the qualities of something in a non-literal comparison.
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Except it is very CLEARLY literal since the light is being referred to as an ACTUAL REALM. This is IMMEDIATELY after it is introduced. At best the metaphor angle is denial of what is explicitly stated.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,429
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- #418
Again, what about this prevents it from being a metaphor? A literal ray of light can't be a realm. Neither can a ray of hope. They are both metaphorical, whether you like it or not.
Vietthai96
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While the ray of light statement is a metaphor, it isn't the metaphor that refering to hope and or any kind of positive emotion, it is refering to a literal realm
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I share the same exact view.
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How is EXPLICITLY calling it an ENTIRE REALM a METAPHOR for HOPE when it's not supported ANYWHERE in the text?
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #422
Which... doesn't stop it from being a metaphor... Literal objects can be referred to in metaphorical terms. Like calling someone the apple of your eye, or a person or place a beacon of hope. That is what a metaphor is.
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No, but I think when a text says "The world was born of darkness, birthing light, that light was the human realm. People lived in it." They mean that LITERALLY.
(Obviously that's the watered down version of the actual quote.)
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Also I'm like 99% sure DMC has a very blatant power system in play, Dante can also permanently destroy souls so I see no reason to not scale him to the 9-D souls.
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It may be metaphorical in being literally a ray of light, but it is still referred to as a single ray of light in an unending darkness, obviously referring to it being tiny compared to the demon world. It is very obviously the human world.
Again, this was never the source of 9-D. The demon world is clearly stated to be higher dimensional and stated to be the origin of 9-D souls. All while it contains multiple Low 2-C structures within itself and has multiple different flows of time.
Again, this was never the source of 9-D. The demon world is clearly stated to be higher dimensional and stated to be the origin of 9-D souls. All while it contains multiple Low 2-C structures within itself and has multiple different flows of time.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,429
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- #426
It literally can't be. A ray of light is an inanimate construct without oxygen, water, or anything needed to sustain life. If it was a literal ray of light, nobody there would even be alive. It has to be metaphorical (or otherwise non-literal) to some extent for anything to make sense.
I don't think that was ever a point of contention. Regardless, we do not inherently scale 9D beings to 1-C levels of AP/durability, so Dante destroying them would just be HDM/smurf hax.
Palito266
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Metaphors aren't a good way to manipulate what the manga is trying to say you know...
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #428
Vietthai96
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Being metaphorical doesn't automatically invalidated its meaning, there is thing we called contexts. By this logic, we should nuke Conceptual Manipulation, Abstract Existence, Transduality, Law Manipulation and some others because they all are metaphorical power.
Given the right contexts metaphorical can be literal
Palito266
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It may be a metaphor yes, but the metaphor in hand may be that the realm is in comparison a simple speck or ray or point of light in the sea of endless/infinite/whatever darkness.
You can't just apply random shit like "Hope" to say that is it and pseudo-debunk the shit, that ain't gonna work
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #431
The text can quite literally be translated as "hope". That is explicitly a possible way of reading the text. That isn't "manipulation".
We're up to what, 3 instances of DMC supporters just straight up lying about me in 1 thread? Bit sad tbh!
It can invalidate a literal meaning in some cases. The metaphor here is about how the HW is a spark of hope against the DW, which has nothing to do with size comparisons or superiority. It's just a trope of good vs evil. I didn't say metaphors are unusable, either, just that they don't always mean things in a literal sense.
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You're not exactly manipulating it. What you are doing however is adding factors which aren't really related to the fact that it is a universe and attempting to dismiss the size difference inherent in a single ray of light in an unending darkness. It's a reframing trick, and while alternative interpretations are valid, you're adding a headcanon about hope or something to try to counteract the direct size contrast that the manga is making. In fact, it's only a step away from the Chewbacca Defence. I could also argue that the ray of light was Pluto lighting a fart, but the fart, like hope, was never mentioned, thus making it a headcanon.
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This, this right here, is called lying.
It is explicitly translated, as you have seen FOUR SEPARATE TIMES, as being "The Human World."
It CANNOT be translated into Hope.
Palito266
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Bro you literally just said some random shit like "Hope" and putting it into a realm then pretended it to be a "METAPHOR" without even reading the context of what the manga's even saying, if that's not manipulating shit then i don't know at this point.
I literally cannot see how the ray of light is considered hope, please enlighten me, oh master of metaphors. Because i've been lost for so many years
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OBJECTION!
Japanese when translated to English often has multiple meanings, making translations from it not holier then thou and multiple translations being very possible.
Sorry for barging in with no staff but I had to say that.
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I wanted to assume the best from the OP, but you two are right. Claiming it can be translated differently after clearly just inserting headcanon is veering dangerously close to lying.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #437
womp womp
Anyways, yall are making this thread ******* Miserable, so keep falsely accusing me of shit and I'll take this to the RVR.
Anyways, yall are making this thread ******* Miserable, so keep falsely accusing me of shit and I'll take this to the RVR.
Palito266
He/Him- 237
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This is pretty empty without someone that knows japanese but yeah it's a valid point though. We'd just need to check on it
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Could you just calm down? You’re always one comment off of blowing up this wiki and it’s not the first time this has been told to you.womp womp
Anyways, yall are making this thread ******* Miserable, so keep falsely accusing me of shit and I'll take this to the RVR.
You accuse others of lying yet start a nuclear meltdown when others do the same. The points just aren’t getting through to one another, so leave it to staff.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 9,253
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No, you can't just saying this kind of interpretation without back-up contexts, your interpretation & assumption of the texts need proof, which currently burden on your shoulder to prove that the ray of light statement is metaphor about hope. However the contexts of the verse make clear that it isn't because Human World can't even fight back against Demon until a Demon Knight help them, so there is no hope contexts here, also back then there is no two worlds, only 1 world which both Human World and Demon Realm is a part of, then Pluto split the original world into two with his spear, so there is no metaphorical of hope involved here
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