Marvel Negative Zone

[Alonik]

The way he said about it, implies there are alternative dimensions/space times. It's the same reed in same comic run. Nowhere he said about infinite higher dimensions again. I can backup my claim via several scans. but can you? (instead of cherry picking and wrong interpretations)

I only want an explicit mention of infinite higher dimensions, not some vague scan with flowery language.

Yes, i can. I've already done that, i don't need to pick up things without context. However it would be great for you to make a list about that, let us see that awesome work.

 

[LuciferX]

Via scaling

Then,it clearly debunks zone being High 1-B

 

[LuciferX]

Yes, i can. I've already done that, i don't need to pick up things without context. However it would be great for you to make a list about that, let us see that awesome work.

show me a scan to backup what reed said? It was stated it connects infinite realities several times, then you have to show me any evidence mentioning about infinite higher dimensions again regarding crossroads.

 

[Alonik]

show me a scan to backup what reed said? It was stated it connects infinite realities several times, then you have to show me any evidence mentioning about infinite higher dimensions again regarding crossroads.

I literally sent above scans about subspace, I don't have to show you something against your denialism, this is a staff thread based on a general consensus, not whether you accept it or not, just like you are denying obvious quotes from higher dimensions not just from me btw.

 

[LuciferX]

I literally sent above scans about subspace, I don't have to show you something against your denialism, this is a staff thread based on a general consensus, not whether you accept it or not, just like you are denying obvious quotes from higher dimensions not just from me btw.

Reed's dimensionality shifted downwards there to 2D. He only assumed he would be 6D next second but didn't happen.

Again, You can't show any other evidence to backup inf D claim because rest of scans are about alt dimensions evolving crossroads.

 

[Alonik]

Reed's dimensionality shifted downwards there to 2D. He only assumed he would be 6D next second but didn't happen.

Again, You can't show any other evidence to backup inf D claim because rest of scans are about alt dimensions.

Sure... If say sou. Thanks for the stonewalling. Anyway, I'll wait for those who are more versed with Marvel to comment.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I’m inclined to disagree with High 1-B Negative Zone for reasons Deagonx and Antvasima outlined.

 

[Deagonx]

I’m inclined to disagree with High 1-B Negative Zone for reasons Deagonx and Antvasima outlined.

Ultima has clarified that he believes this only applies to the Crossroads of Infinity. However, I think the main point of contention is whether or not the scan is sufficient evidence to support infinite spatial dimensions at all, regardless of what it applies to.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Ultima has clarified that he believes this only applies to the Crossroads of Infinity. However, I think the main point of contention is whether or not the scan is sufficient evidence to support infinite spatial dimensions at all, regardless of what it applies to.

Ah okay.

After reviewing all the arguments I do think Ultima’s take on the Crossroads of Infinity makes sense.

 

[Vasco]

You didn't reply to it, no, you replied to the paragraphs in the OP, and everything I said above answers what you've just quoted. Moreover I never said the statement was proof of infinite spatial dimensions: I used the scan as demonstration that spatial dimensions are a pertinent theme with regards to the Crossroads of Infinity, as support for the other scans I've shown, not the main meat of the point. Lastly, refer to the above: I keep saying those things aren't really mutually exclusive but nobody seems to listen.

Except that scan didn't reference anything on spatial dimensions, you just assumed it so.

Lastly, refer to the above: I keep saying those things aren't really mutually exclusive but nobody seems to listen.

But newer statements don't make it sound like some extra-dimensional space just an alternate universe.

 

[Vasco]

Not sure where he dismessed this, since in the previous thread I had already given support about the space-time continuum that subspace connects are infinite higher dimensions. Quoting what I had argued before because this is a staff thread and should be voted:

And before anything else, yes subspace is just another name for hyperspace. You might have to read comics like Captain Marvel where they changed the name from subspace to hyperspace.

These scans aren't High 1-B.

 

[Vasco]

Also why are we debating Negative Zone and Crossroads of infinity different? Isn't Crossroads within the Negative Zone or it got retconned cause I'm beginning to get confused.

 

[LuciferX]

Also why are we debating Negative Zone and Crossroads of infinity different? Isn't Crossroads within the Negative Zone or it got retconned cause I'm beginning to get confused.

Argument is High 1-B struture could exist in the center of a 3-D universe.

How is it even possible to exist a High 1-B structure inside a 3-D universe? Negative Zone being 3D never retconed, using distrotion area's dimensional shfiting doesn't contradict zone being 3D.

 

[Deagonx]

Also why are we debating Negative Zone and Crossroads of infinity different? Isn't Crossroads within the Negative Zone or it got retconned cause I'm beginning to get confused.

These scans describe the Crossroads as being a black hole at the center of the Negative Zone that contains a gateway to other dimensions. It also says that the Distortion Area is an interface between the Negative Zone and our universe. So that actually is pretty important, because that directly conflicts with the idea that the Crossroads and the Distortion Area are the same thing

 

[Vasco]

Argument is High 1-B struture could exist in the center of a 3-D universe.

How is it even possible to exist a High 1-B structure inside a 3-D universe? Negative Zone being 3D never retconed, using distrotion area's dimensional shfiting doesn't contradict zone being 3D.

Fantastic Four Annual, it doesn't dimensional shift only changes the molecular structure of beings trying to move in and out of the Negative Zone.

It also says that the Distortion Area is an interface between the Negative Zone and our universe.

True stated multiple times.

So that actually is pretty important, because that directly conflicts with the idea that the Crossroads and the Distortion Area are the same thing

The crossroads and distortion area are never shown to be the same in any book I read, does anyone have proof of this?

 

[Deagonx]

The crossroads and distortion area are never shown to be the same in any book I read, does anyone have proof of this?

One of the scans Ultima posted shows Reed saying "welcome to the Crossroads of Infinity" shortly before saying that they'll cross through the distortion area soon. But logistically if the crossroads is at the center then it doesn't really work because the distortion area separates the negative zone from the main universe right?

 

[Vasco]

But logistically if the crossroads is at the center then it doesn't really work because the distortion area separates the negative zone from the main universe right?

Fully agree.

 

[LuciferX]

One of the scans Ultima posted shows Reed saying "welcome to the Crossroads of Infinity" shortly before saying that they'll cross through the distortion area soon. But logistically if the crossroads is at the center then it doesn't really work because the distortion area separates the negative zone from the main universe right?

It can be disproven by using scans saying Distortion area separates zone and universe.

It's blatantly clear they aren't same as explained in same FF run.

 

[Antvasima]

Argument is High 1-B struture could exist in the center of a 3-D universe.

How is it even possible to exist a High 1-B structure inside a 3-D universe? Negative Zone being 3D never retconed, using distrotion area's dimensional shfiting doesn't contradict zone being 3D.

Higher-dimensional spaces can intersect with lower-dimensional space according to mathematics as far as I am aware, so it would be much more correct to say that the area of the Negative Zone that enables access to the nexus and multiversal transportation is an unfathomably tiny part of the nexus than the reverse.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, a question if I may:

During the extremely prominent "Time Runs Out" and following "Secret War" events written by Jonathan Hickman, it was very explicitly established that in the current version of Marvel Comics cosmology, the entire Marvel multiverse was possible to destroy by simply colliding a finite number of regular universes against each other, and that it could be recreated by Franklin Richards and the Molecule Man creating new universes and tying them together, which also explicitly happened on a tier 2-B scale.

After that event, the writer Al Ewing has introduced several higher levels of existence that were retroactively established to have existed within previous iterations of the Marvel Comics cosmology, if I have understood correctly, but even taken together, I do not think that they seem to exceed a tier High 1-C scale at best.

Again, all of these concepts were as explicitly and prominently displayed and outlined in an as official manner as Marvel Comics stories ever reach, so they are not contingent on any speculation or easily dismissed at all as far as I am aware.

As such, should we split the cosmology to the old at least High 1-B structure explicitly outlined in Doctor Strange #21 published in 1990, and the new (High 1-C?) cosmology retconned into being by Jonathan Hickman and Al Ewing, with the House of Ideas and the One Above All scaling to being above the highest peak that either of them reached, as it is what officially continuously creates (and recreates and redefines) it all?

 

[Antvasima]

Also, a plea to our community in general regarding the future:

Please clarify early on if I have misunderstood your intentions during content revision discussions (and otherwise), as my reading comprehension is not high enough to automatically catch nuanced undertones unless it is stated outright, at least not when I am extremely busy/distracted by many other tasks and am very stressed out, and I also easily get stuck on specific issues given my mid-level autism.

 

[Firestorm808]

Still in the process of sourcing and organizing everything.

Marvel Comics - Cosmology

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Antvasima]

Still in the process of sourcing and organizing everything.

Marvel Comics - Cosmology

vsbattles.fandom.com

Thank you greatly for helping out so much. You are awesome.

However, please take the following issues into account at well:

Anyway, a question if I may:

During the extremely prominent "Time Runs Out" and following "Secret War" events written by Jonathan Hickman, it was very explicitly established that in the current version of Marvel Comics cosmology, the entire Marvel multiverse was very explicitly possible to destroy by simply colliding a finite number of regular universes against each other, and that it could be recreated by Franklin Richards and the Molecule Man creating new universes and tying them together, which also explicitly happened on a tier 2-B scale.

After that event, the writer Al Ewing has introduced several higher levels of existence that were retroactively established to have existed within previous iterations of the Marvel Comics cosmology, if I have understood correctly, but even taken together, I do not think that they seem to exceed a tier High 1-C scale at best.

Again, all of these concepts were as explicitly and prominently displayed and outlined in an as official manner as Marvel Comics stories ever reach, so they are not contingent on any speculation or easily dismissed at all as far as I am aware.

As such, should we split the cosmology to the old at least High 1-B structure explicitly outlined in Doctor Strange #21 published in 1990, and the new (High 1-C?) cosmology retconned into being by Jonathan Hickman and Al Ewing, with the House of Ideas and the One Above All scaling to being above the highest peak that either of them reached, as it is what officially continuously creates (and recreates and redefines) it all?

 

[LuciferX]

Anyway, a question if I may:

During the extremely prominent "Time Runs Out" and following "Secret War" events written by Jonathan Hickman, it was very explicitly established that in the current version of Marvel Comics cosmology, the entire Marvel multiverse was very explicitly possible to destroy by simply colliding a finite number of regular universes against each other, and that it could be recreated by Franklin Richards and the Molecule Man creating new universes and tying them together, which also explicitly happened on a tier 2-B scale.

3-A because they created several universes one by one overtime.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, they created the entire universal continuums one-by-one at the end of the Secret War event, so that would be many Low 2-C feats.

 

[Vasco]

So, basically, in Issue #3, we have a mention of a thing called "the Cascade," where "infinite dimensions converge." Seems to be referring to parallel realms without more context, but in Issue #4, the "Voyager" mentioned in the title of the comic shows up, and he wants the main character's soul, which he says is because it will serve as fuel for his ascent into "the Cascade of dimensions above." When the protagonist asks what he means by that, another character explains that he's talking about is "The... next plane up, Heaven. Whatever you want to call it."

Then at the end of it story, he finally gives his soul to the Voyager, and we get a description of the latter's ascension into the aforementioned Cascade:

"...It passes Celestial Pagodas whose balconies and hanging gardens drip sumptuous fruit earthward... It passes ever-increasing spheres and sedimentary layers of heavens that encrust the tiny shell of this universe... It passes oceans of higher dimensions until, as my split second ability to comprehend what I am seeing contracts... The Voyager bursts, scattering a chorus of voices."

So, it seems the infinite dimensions that the "Cascade" here comprehends are indeed higher dimensions. They're even described as "layers of heavens that encrust the tiny shell of this universe," and their amount is described as "ever-increasing," which supports the first scan saying that the Cascade is where infinite dimensions converge, and shows (Alongside it being described as "the Cascade of dimensions") that said dimensions are indeed the layers that the Voyager pierces through on his way to it.

For reference's sake I'd also like to point out that this story has been referenced relatively recently, in the 2008 Marvel Handbook

This looks okay for High 1-B to me, also with the scan you tagged me with which called them higher dimensions.

Also Negative Zone isn't accepted as High 1-B from what's seen from this thread and also Crossroads of infinity also won't be since it only a junction to everywhere or pathway to every place in existence.

So this will just make the Marvel multiverse still be the same right before the cosmology split?

 

[LuciferX]

This looks okay for High 1-B to me, also with the scan you tagged me with which called them higher dimensions.

"infinite dimensions converge"/ meet at one place sentence clearly shows they are parallel dimensions. It doesn't make sense to me though.

 

[Vasco]

"infinite dimensions converge"/ meet at one place sentence clearly shows they are parallel dimensions. It doesn't make sense to me though.

He brought another scan of it called higher dimensional also, so it kinda makes sense though I don't know the book he got those scans.

Also the distortion area in Fantastic Four: Full circle isn't about dimensional shifting based on the context of that book.

 

[Excellence616]

As such, should we split the cosmology to the old at least High 1-B structure explicitly outlined in Doctor Strange #21 published in 1990, and the new (High 1-C?) cosmology retconned into being by Jonathan Hickman and Al Ewing, with the House of Ideas and the One Above All scaling to being above the highest peak that either of them reached, as it is what officially continuously creates (and recreates and redefines) it all?

Yes

 

[Excellence616]

Still in the process of sourcing and organizing everything.

Marvel Comics - Cosmology

vsbattles.fandom.com

What tier will all those warrant?

 

[Firestorm808]

What tier will all those warrant?

We don't know yet.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I greatly apologise for the misunderstanding then.

All good.

However, just to make certain, you do agree with me regarding that the Crossroads of Infinity only scale to the Marvel multiverse and not to the Negative Zone then?

Obviously, yeah.

I agree, I just meant in the sense that that was the highest dimensionality that prefaced this alleged shift to infinite dimensionality.

I find this a bit unsubstantiated, then, especially given the aforementioned detail I've mentioned (That he is seeing the entire Crossroads, not just specific dimensional levels of the realm). We are never given a strict cap to the number of possible dimensionalities that can be accessed in the Crossroads, after all.

I also don't know if I'd call the dimensional shift an "alleged" one, given that he initially finds himself in 4-D space, and we know that the Crossroads themselves contain more than that. Doubly so because it's the meeting point of various universes, all of which can themselves vary in dimensionality (So, feasibly, all statements about higher-dimensional spaces in Marvel would feed back into it, if you understand what I mean)

Right, I agree. I'm saying that this quality could also be described as a "world of limitless dimensions" as well as a "junction to everywhere" and "crossroads to infinity" so in my view it's more intuitive to regard all three phrases, stated by the same character about the same place in the same scan, as referring to the same characteristic, rather than 1 of them referring to spatial dimensionality.

I find that debatable, given the universes aren't exactly contained in the Crossroads (To my knowledge, anyway), since it largely is just the realm where they all meet and from which they're all accessible, especially with recent comics defining the Superflow as the space containing and separating all the universes, while simultaneously acknowledging the Crossroads as a separate, but still connected, place (You can also see that in the scan I've posted above, where the Sixth Cosmos is credited as the builder of the junction to everywhere). It'd be odd to describe it as "of limitless dimensions" if it was referring to universes (In the same way you could describe our universe as "of limitless stars," or similar verbiage), in that sense.

I understand your point about it being all the same scan also, yes, but I also think it's important to note the scene as a whole, rather than just that specific panel, and the scene as a whole is prefaced by Reed's talk of accessing higher-dimensional space.

@Ultima_Reality You dismissed this.

I didn't dismiss it. I acknowledged it in the post just above. I've already made my stance on this scan clear (It's not mutually exclusive with saying the statement from Fantastic Four #51 refers to spatial dimensions). You keep posting things asserting that the Crossroads are an intersection of universes and I find that bizarre because I never claimed otherwise.

Then why not upgrading Annihilus to High 1-B? He can control the zone/dimensionality?

Already responded to this here:

The control over dimensionality, in this case, is talking about what he'd be able to do by harnessing power from the Cosmic Control Rod, Doom's use of which that storyline portrays as above anything Annihilus himself is able to do. For example, when he gets both the Control Rod and control over time, he obtains "omnipotent power" (Referring to how he now has full domain over all space and time, shown above) and overpowers the Watcher with an energy blast.

The comic itself has Immortus say that Annihilus is mostly useless to his and Doom's plans without the Control Rod, at the same time as he says said plans involve absorbing "the power of all space-time," so, that should already tell you Annihilus doesn't really scale to anything Doom does while empowered by the Negative Zone. He doesn't scale to the Crossroads.

Yeah. It's a bit vague scan.

The definition of "Vague" is "of uncertain, indefinite, or unclear character or meaning." That is objectively not what this statement is, given the very explicit language used in it.

"Infinite dimensions converge" mean meet at one place. so It's not about infinite higher dimensions in the first place. don't try to justify it with some random scans because it's talking about parallel dimensions in the first place.

Not sure why said dimensions "converging" means anything to that effect. It's a fairly neutral statement, not supporting nor denying that they are higher dimensions.

What exactly do you mean by "justify it with random scans," also? By "random scans," you mean: Scans from the same, short comic, that has one single, continuous story (Issue #4 starts off right where Issue #3 ended), that are talking about the same subject (The Cascade)? That's a pretty ridiculous objection to make.

He brought another scan of it called higher dimensional also, so it kinda makes sense though I don't know the book he got those scans.

By the way, I'd also like to ask what our treatment of the Marvel UK print is, cosmology-wise, since one comic, Children of the Voyager (1993, so, from around the time Tom DeFalco was Marvel's Editor-in-Chief), specifically, has some descriptions that are of interest to the topic here (Infinite-dimensional Marvel, that is)

If you're asking about the Handbook scan, it's from the A to Z Marvel Universe Hanbook from 2008. Issue 13, specifically (So it was actually released in 2010. My bad for mistaking that earlier)

 

[Deagonx]

I find this a bit unsubstantiated, then, especially given the aforementioned detail I've mentioned (That he is seeing the entire Crossroads, not just specific dimensional levels of the realm). We are never given a strict cap to the number of possible dimensionalities that can be accessed in the Crossroads, after all.

You're right, let me clarify my intentions. I am not arguing for the impossibility of your interpretation, nor suggesting that such an interpretation is definitively incompatible with the information we have. Rather, I am saying that it seems more plausible, in my opinion, to think the aforementioned phrase referred to the gateway to other dimensions, not spatiality, because a jump from a single digit number of dimensions to infinite dimensions is -- independent of any other context -- something to be regarded with a level of scrutiny, and because the crucial phrase that this is built upon can feasibly refer to the defining quality of the Crossroads, that is definitively known and repeatedly referred to, whereas this notion of infinite spatial dimensionality is not as rock-solid.

I also don't know if I'd call the dimensional shift an "alleged" one, given that he initially finds himself in 4-D space, and we know that the Crossroads themselves contain more than that.

Do we know that the Crossroads definitively contain more than 3 spatial dimensions? If so, is that based on the idea of the distortion area being the same thing as the Crossroads? If so, see the end of this post as there is something to iron out with that. I say "alleged" only because the matter is currently being discussed, not with regard to the dimensional shift at all, but specifically to infinite dimensionality.

I find that debatable, given the universes aren't exactly contained in the Crossroads (To my knowledge, anyway), since it largely is just the realm where they all meet and from which they're all accessible, especially with recent comics defining the Superflow as the space containing and separating all the universes, while simultaneously acknowledging the Crossroads as a separate, but still connected, place (You can also see that in the scan I've posted above, where the Sixth Cosmos is credited as the builder of the junction to everywhere). It'd be odd to describe it as "of limitless dimensions" if it was referring to universes (In the same way you could describe our universe as "of limitless stars," or similar verbiage), in that sense.

I don't think they need to be contained within the Crossroads itself in order for the phrase "world of limitless dimensions" to be used in reference to the dimensions that the Crossroads provides access to. I can see the perspective that it is mildly awkward from a linguistic standpoint, but not pressing enough to really matter IMO.

However, I noticed in this scan you provided that the Crossroads is described as a black hole in the center of the Negative Zone that contains a gateway to other dimension. This same scan describes the "distortion area" as an interface between the Negative Zone and our universe. I know part of your argument was the scan that implied that the Crossroads and distortion area were identical, but this scan seems to contradict such an interpretation. If that were indeed the case, would that change the main points of your argument? I am not sure how critically the "Distortion Area = Crossroads" piece fits into the main point you were making.

 

[Antvasima]

@Ultima_Reality

What do you think that we should do regarding this problem?

Anyway, a question if I may:

During the extremely prominent "Time Runs Out" and following "Secret War" events written by Jonathan Hickman, it was very explicitly established that in the current version of Marvel Comics cosmology, the entire Marvel multiverse was possible to destroy by simply colliding a finite number of regular universes against each other, and that it could be recreated by Franklin Richards and the Molecule Man creating new universes and tying them together, which also explicitly happened on a tier 2-B scale.

After that event, the writer Al Ewing has introduced several higher levels of existence that were retroactively established to have existed within previous iterations of the Marvel Comics cosmology, if I have understood correctly, but even taken together, I do not think that they seem to exceed a tier High 1-C scale at best.

Again, all of these concepts were as explicitly and prominently displayed and outlined in an as official manner as Marvel Comics stories ever reach, so they are not contingent on any speculation or easily dismissed at all as far as I am aware.

As such, should we split the cosmology to the old at least High 1-B structure explicitly outlined in Doctor Strange #21 published in 1990, and the new (High 1-C?) cosmology retconned into being by Jonathan Hickman and Al Ewing, with the House of Ideas and the One Above All scaling to being above the highest peak that either of them reached, as it is what officially continuously creates (and recreates and redefines) it all?

 

[Vasco]

My stand on this thread Currently disagree with High 1-B Negative Zone, Neutral to disagree on High 1-B Crossroads of infinity and agree with High 1-B multiverse based on the scans from children of the Voyager, though i'm about to start reading the book from tomorrow so my stance on it my possibly change.

 

[LuciferX]

So, basically, in Issue #3, we have a mention of a thing called "the Cascade," where "infinite dimensions converge." Seems to be referring to parallel realms without more context, but in Issue #4, the "Voyager" mentioned in the title of the comic shows up, and he wants the main character's soul, which he says is because it will serve as fuel for his ascent into "the Cascade of dimensions above." When the protagonist asks what he means by that, another character explains that he's talking about is "The... next plane up, Heaven. Whatever you want to call it."

Cascade being above heaven doesn't prove they are infinite spatial dimensions.

First we have to look into the credibility of the statement. It was said by Herriret, a human magic user when she explained about the world to Sam.
we can guess she is an omniscient person like reed richards.

She tells me stories about countries beyond the provinces, heaven and hell, of a place called cascade where infinite dimensions converge.

Converge mean meet at one place, higher dimensions meet at one place? what does that even mean? 2D,3D,4D,infiniteD meet at one place?

Then at the end of it story, he finally gives his soul to the Voyager, and we get a description of the latter's ascension into the aforementioned Cascade:

"...It passes Celestial Pagodas whose balconies and hanging gardens drip sumptuous fruit earthward... It passes ever-increasing spheres and sedimentary layers of heavens that encrust the tiny shell of this universe... It passes oceans of higher dimensions until, as my split second ability to comprehend what I am seeing contracts... The Voyager bursts, scattering a chorus of voices."

Voyager passing oceans of higher dimensions have nothing to do with cascade. there is no evidence it was describing about cascade.

So, it seems the infinite dimensions that the "Cascade" here comprehends are indeed higher dimensions. They're even described as "layers of heavens that encrust the tiny shell of this universe," and their amount is described as "ever-increasing," which supports the first scan saying that the Cascade is where infinite dimensions converge, and shows (Alongside it being described as "the Cascade of dimensions") that said dimensions are indeed the layers that the Voyager pierces through on his way to it.

Layers of heaven are a whole different thing. It's above heaven. Heaven is not Cascade. Layers in heaven don't refer to dimensions.

For reference's sake I'd also like to point out that this story has been referenced relatively recently, in the 2008 Marvel Handbook

"A realm of infinitely interconnecting dimensions" indicate they are not spatial once again.

Same story used dimension term to describe alt worlds.

In guidebook, it says he transcended earth dimension/reality and then ascended through reality and reality, implies what author meant by "the ocean of higher dimensions" are just higher realms. ocean of higher dimensions def not about dimensions in casacade because he wanted to go to his realm, why do he pass his own realm? doesn't make sense.

Btw, evidence for QS of those dimensions in cascade? (If I assume, what you said was true) None

Evidence for QS of those dimensions mentioned by reed richards? None.

 

[LuciferX]

I didn't dismiss it. I acknowledged it in the post just above. I've already made my stance on this scan clear (It's not mutually exclusive with saying the statement from Fantastic Four #51 refers to spatial dimensions). You keep posting things asserting that the Crossroads are an intersection of universes and I find that bizarre because I never claimed otherwise.

Why don't you understand reed was talking about alr dimensions? literary every other scan is about alt dimensions, are you telling me every guidebook dismissed the infinite dimensional part in crossroads?

Here more scans about crossroads. why not mentioning any infinite higher dimensions here?

"The crossroads has been seen to grant access to various dimensions within Reality 616"

 

[Deagonx]

literary every other scan is about alt dimensions, are you telling me every guidebook dismissed the infinite dimensional part in crossroads?

Here more scans about crossroads. why not mentioning any infinite higher dimensions here?

So, I think Lucifer is underscoring the important point here.

Is it possible that the Crossroads is both a gateway to infinite dimensions and a realm/section within the Negative Zone that also has infinitely spatial dimensions? Yeah, it's possible. It just strikes me as quite a coincidence given that the only phrase in all of Marvel's history that indicates this is vague enough that it could also be interpreted as referring to the gateway, which is what every other reference to it in Marvel focuses on.

I just don't think that under these circumstances that we have enough evidence to draw such a conclusion. I think Occam's Razor applies here. We have 10+ scans affirming the "access to infinite dimensions" aspect of the Crossroads, and 1 scan which is either the 11th scan confirming this, or the first and only scan that refers to it's apparent infinite spatial dimensionality.

IMO, that's an easy call to make, which is why I do not agree with the upgrade.

 

[LuciferX]

So, I think Lucifer is underscoring the important point here.

Is it possible that the Crossroads is both an access-point to infinite dimensions and a realm/section within the Negative Zone that also has infinitely spatial dimensions? Yeah, it's possible. It just strikes me as quite a coincidence given that the only phrase in all of Marvel's history that indicates this is vague enough that it could also be interpreted as referring to the gateway, which is what every other reference to it in Marvel focuses on because that's what it is.

I see. but, Is it possible to say "n" number of dimensions exist without perceiving them? It's not a speculation and the first time he discovered negative zone. If so, reed must upgrade to High 1-B

 

[Vasco]

I'm currently reading children of the Voyager, and I wanna ask is it truly canon to mainstream universe?