Dragon Ball Super: Universes/Timeline Tiering Revision

[Reiner04]

there is no mention of the other world being part of universe 7, there is more evidence of it being separate from universe 7, there is no concept of time there

Create a CRT, best of luck

 

[Quasar002]

EI remember that one of the evidences for the universes to be other spacetime, was the super shenron scene, where it showed the universes being separated from each other. And also when he shows Zeno's palace, the universes are separated from each other. It is quite visible that they are not in the same space, but separated.

 

[Reiner04]

EI remember that one of the evidences for the universes to be other spacetime, was the super shenron scene, where it showed the universes being separated from each other. And also when he shows Zeno's palace, the universes are separated from each other. It is quite visible that they are not in the same space, but separated.

Yes, but that would not account for them being entire seprate spacetime but just seprate spatial dimensions that are within same continuum and are affected all together.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

EI remember that one of the evidences for the universes to be other spacetime, was the super shenron scene, where it showed the universes being separated from each other. And also when he shows Zeno's palace, the universes are separated from each other. It is quite visible that they are not in the same space, but separated.

I already presented this in my argument above, they just ignored it, they want to downgrade the verse at all costs.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I have two pieces of evidence that there is a room in Karin Tower where the past, present, and future meet, in addition to which there is mention of the temple of Kami, the world where past, present, and future meet.





mentioned in the databook itself

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Create a CRT, best of luck

no, because this here has to prove that there are different space-times in universe 7

 

[Reiner04]

@LuffyRuffy46307 read the rules, these aren't evidences and please do not multi post if it's not adding up for any argument.

 

[Quasar002]

Yes, but that would not account for them being entire seprate spacetime but just seprate spatial dimensions that are within same continuum and are affected all together.

The 12 universes seem to exist within Zeno's world, that's one thing I noticed. They are smaller than rocks in the world of zeno, but I don't know if that's relevant to this topic anyway.

 

[Quasar002]

I have two pieces of evidence that there is a room in Karin Tower where the past, present, and future meet, in addition to which there is mention of the temple of Kami, the world where past, present, and future meet.





mentioned in the databook itself

That quote about the past, present and future in the room of time, isn't that something from the toeiverse? I remember there's a filler episode that talks about it. So I don't know if that would be relevant to this topic.

 

[Reiner04]

The 12 universes seem to exist within Zeno's world, that's one thing I noticed. They are smaller than rocks in the world of zeno, but I don't know if that's relevant to this topic anyway.

Yup, Zeno place logically should be higher dimensional but unfortunately, the site sees those universe like structures as nothing more than show pieces on zeno world, like most of our government offices having a globe. So this site don't scale it for this reason I think.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

That quote about the past, present and future in the room of time, isn't that something from the toeiverse? I remember there's a filler episode that talks about it. So I don't know if that would be relevant to this topic.

only from Krillin and Tenshinham, when they go to train, their souls are sent to the past of the planet of the Sj, and another is in classic Dragon Ball, where a room full of clocks is presented.

 

[Quasar002]

Yup, Zeno place logically should be higher dimensional but unfortunately, the site sees those universe like structures as nothing more than show pieces on zeno world, like most of our government offices having a globe. So this site don't scale it for this reason I think.

Dragon ball doesn't elaborate much on the world of zeno, nor by guides, unfortunately. So it's just our visual interpretation. But back to the main subject of the thread, I'll wait for better arguments. I always thought that them being visually separated was concrete proof, but I see otherwise.

 

[Reiner04]

Any way, room of time is not acceptable. Has been brought up several times.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Any way, room of time is not acceptable. https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-4d-question.143875/post-5181430

there's nothing there '-'

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

The RoSAT isn't universal in size anyways so destroying it doesn't make someone Tier 2. Otherwise neutral on this

Bruh, this is the textbook genetic fallacy. "Standards" doesn't change facts. You have to accept the feat and say its' an outlier, but a finite increase in size from earth to universe size isn't a dimensional gap. Shows a clear misunderstanding of dimensional tiering.

 

[Reiner04]

Bruh, this is the textbook genetic fallacy. "Standards" doesn't change facts. You have to accept the feat and say its' an outlier, but a finite increase in size from earth to universe size isn't a dimensional gap. Shows a clear misunderstanding of dimensional tiering.

Les focus on the the Timeline part first and see if there is something can be done for universes being seprate spacetime's.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Ok, this might get confusing but if frieza considered being in the time chamber as outside the universe along with it being its own flow of time, and frieza himself is aware of other universes not being in the "universe" wouldn't that mean that the other universes have their own flow of time

 

[Reiner04]

Ok, this might get confusing but if frieza considered being in the time chamber as outside the universe along with it being its own flow of time, and frieza himself is aware of other universes not being in the "universe" wouldn't that mean that the other universes have their own flow of time

How the hell you reached this conclusion? Nothing suggest universes to have their own timeflow from frieza statement but rather all of them are in the same continuum. (⁠╯⁠°⁠□⁠°⁠）⁠╯⁠︵⁠ ⁠┻⁠━⁠┻

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

How the hell you reached this conclusion? Nothing suggest universes to have their own timeflow from frieza statement but rather all of them are in the same continuum. (⁠╯⁠°⁠□⁠°⁠）⁠╯⁠︵⁠ ⁠┻⁠━⁠┻

hence why i said it was confusing, i'd understand if it was not usable since i just had this idea come from the top of my head

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Though didn't goku say time doesn't flow in otherworld compared to the living world

 

[Reiner04]

hence why i said it was confusing, i'd understand if it was not usable since i just had this idea come from the top of my head

Frieza statement just contradicted any of our belief or deduction we have been using regarding location of time chamber. Frieza said

"he was in another dimension or perhaps wasn't considered to be a part of the universe"

It doesn't explicitly states that he was only outside the universe but just that he was outside the universe to say the least which has turn the deduction reasoning of us into dust and thus it's position will be decided only over the basis of evidences as statement has been made after the entire Cosmology has been introduced and looking at the explanation, it cannot be within timeline.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Now my final question, we give dbs characters uni+ of scaling from infinite zamasu significantly affecting the timeline to a universal level rather than affecting the multiverse so the timeline encompassing the multiverse would only make the timeline rating go down to uni+ rather than downgrade the verse to universal due to the fact zamasu was spreading his consciousness throughout the timeline to a universal extent

 

[Reiner04]

Now my final question, we give dbs characters uni+ of scaling from infinite zamasu significantly affecting the timeline to a universal level rather than affecting the multiverse so the timeline encompassing the multiverse would only make the timeline rating go down to uni+ rather than downgrade the verse to universal due to the fact zamasu was spreading his consciousness throughout the timeline to a universal extent

Yeah. Everyone will still scale from IZ.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Yeah. Everyone will still scale from IZ.

and IZ should still have his tier since he affected the timeline on a universal scale

 

[Stefano4444]

The ROSAT existing outside the universe as a separated dimension doesn't absolutely disprove that its not part of Universe 7.

Both the Other World (a place where supposedly time doesn't exist, which implied that the realm has its own flow of time) and Kaioshin Realm have been described/show/treated as separated dimensions that exist outside the Mortal World (which its usually what the character tend to refer as the universe) similar to the ROSAT, however they are still consider part of the same macrocosm.

Also how can be sure that the wish's limitation was only valid for the ROSAT? If the wish was only meant to be applied to only the universe and that be in another dimension its enough for prevent the wish to working on you, then how can we be certain that the wish worked in either Other World or the Kaioshin Realm? For what all we know if Frieza was training in those dimensions then the same outcome would have happen.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

The ROSAT existing outside the universe as a separated dimension doesn't absolutely disprove that that place its no part of Universe 7.

Both the Other World (a place where supposedly time doesn't exist, which implied that the realm has its own flow of time) and Kaioshin Realm have been described/show/treated as separated dimensions that exist outside the Mortal World (which its usually what the character tend to refer as the universe) similar to the ROSAT, however they are still consider part of the same macrocosmo.

Also how can be sure that the wish's limitation was only valid for the ROSAT? If the wish was only meant to be applied to only the universe and that be in another dimension its enough for prevent the wish to working on you, then how can we be certain that the wish worked in either Other World or the Kaioshin Realm? For what all we know if Frieza was training in those dimensions then the same outcome would have happen.

i dont the wiki accepts that universe 7 has multiple universal sized spacetimes though the fact otherworld doesn't have time and is yet under the same timeline might mean something

 

[omegabronic]

i dont the wiki accepts that universe 7 has multiple universal sized spacetimes though the fact otherworld doesn't have time and is yet under the same timeline might mean something

we don't, we never did if that was the case BoG goku would be 2-C, the wiki does not accept it and arguing for it is derail

and IZ should still have his tier since he affected the timeline on a universal scale

now that i think about it, would zamasu even maintain his rating? he is affecting a timeline's space time, but just the 3-A universe inside of it making it just a limited space time manipulation, no?

The ROSAT existing outside the universe as a separated dimension doesn't absolutely disprove that that place its no part of Universe 7.

Both the Other World (a place where supposedly time doesn't exist, which implied that the realm has its own flow of time)

the very fact that it is affected by time travel makes it having time, also read above

and Kaioshin Realm have been described/show/treated as separated dimensions that exist outside the Mortal World (which its usually what the character tend to refer as the universe) similar to the ROSAT, however they are still consider part of the same macrocosmo.

in the last thread it was decided that the rosat is not part of the universe, and with it being a separate space time, while all the others don't have, now there is no reason to assume it is inside neither the universe or the timeline, it is an extraordinary claim that needs evidence

Also how can be sure that the wish's limitation was only valid for the ROSAT? If the wish was only meant to be applied to only the universe and that be in another dimension its enough for prevent the wish to working on you, then how can we be certain that the wish worked in either Other World or the Kaioshin Realm? For what all we know if Frieza was training in those dimensions then the same outcome would have happen.

the point is that, now that the rosat is confirmed to be part of the universe, now there is no reason to assume it is with no evidence, same goes with it being inside the timeline, no evidence

I have two pieces of evidence that there is a room in Karin Tower where the past, present, and future meet, in addition to which there is mention of the temple of Kami, the world where past, present, and future meet.





mentioned in the databook itself

I already presented this in my argument above, they just ignored it, they want to downgrade the verse at all costs.

no, because this here has to prove that there are different space-times in universe 7

dude, can you please stop derailing? this thread is about the ROSAT not about any of the other realms, the wiki does not accepted them as space times, the only we did was the ROSAT, and now we have no reason to assume that it is inside neither the universe nor the timeline, to talk about the other realms being space times is derail, please stop, this thread doesn't need to longer than what it already is becoming, if you think that they are space times, ask for a staff for permission, convince them and them make a thread for it, don't derail it here

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

now that i think about it, would zamasu even maintain his rating? he is affecting a timeline's space time, but just the 3-A universe inside of it making it just a limited space time manipulation, no?

I don't think so because he is physically fusing with it and he never fully fused with the timeline

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

the very fact that it is affected by time travel makes it having time, also read above

yes but goku said that it was due to the fact that the living world has time makes him unable to use his ssj3 meaning that something deeper is at play here, so either the living world and otherworld are there own spacetimes or the living world only has its own spacetime in the macrocosm which would mean that every unverse in the multiverse has there own space times

 

[Reiner04]

The ROSAT existing outside the universe as a separated dimension doesn't absolutely disprove that its not part of Universe 7.

It does, the term universe has been used to refer Universe 7 in the dragon Ball super ever since 12 universes has been introduced, to add more basically it was considered to be a part of the livin'universe as it has good amount of reason for that but now it is outside the universe, it have to no reason for any kind of placement inside universe, all of this has been discussed previously in the previous thread.

 

[Reiner04]

yes but goku said that it was due to the fact that the living world has time makes him unable to use his ssj3 meaning that something deeper is at play here, so either the living world and otherworld are there own spacetimes or the living world only has its own spacetime in the macrocosm which would mean that every unverse in the multiverse has there own space times

It has been brought up countless times and has been rejected, we don't have to do the same dance or atleast rules prevents us from doing so. Let's stick to the topic.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

It has been brought up countless times and has been rejected, we don't have to do the same dance or atleast rules prevents us from doing so. Let's stick to the topic.

i am curious though, why has it been rejected

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

also i'm using the argument differently to argue that universe 7 has its own time, not that universe 7 has multiple spacetimes

 

[omegabronic]

I don't think so because he is physically fusing with it and he never fully fused with the timeline

you know what? this topic is worth of another thread, i will concede for now

yes but goku said that it was due to the fact that the living world has time makes him unable to use his ssj3 meaning that something deeper is at play here, so either the living world and otherworld are there own spacetimes or the living world only has its own spacetime in the macrocosm which would mean that every unverse in the multiverse has there own space times

or it is just a contradiction, if there was no time, it wouldn't be a space TIME, also in numerous times we see time passing in the otherworld, plus the fact that it was affected by time travel means that it has time regardless

also stop talking about other realms that are not the rosat, we don't accepted any of them to be space times, neither the afterlife to not have time, this was brought up numerous times in the past, if you want it to change ask a staff for permission and then make a thread for it, don't derail this thread with non accepted stuff please

 

[omegabronic]

also i'm using the argument differently to argue that universe 7 has its own time, not that universe 7 has multiple spacetimes

no you are not to quote from you "so either the living world and otherworld are there own spacetimes or the living world only has its own spacetime in the macrocosm which would mean that every unverse in the multiverse has there own space times" as well as the afterlife not having time was contradicted numerous times in the series

 

[Nullflowerblush]

When was it contradicted again?

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

no you are not to quote from you "so either the living world and otherworld are there own spacetimes or the living world only has its own spacetime in the macrocosm which would mean that every unverse in the multiverse has there own space times" as well as the afterlife not having time was contradicted numerous times in the series

i had 2 examples, "so either the living world and otherworld are there own spacetimes or only the living world only has its own spacetime in the macrocosm which would mean that every unverse in the multiverse has there own space times" as well as the afterlife not having time was contradicted numerous times in the series

i brought up the first one as an unlikely possibility but due to it being rejected before its not my main point but my main point is the second one. When was it contradicted btw because if i'm given an example of time in otherworld the argument is bunk i will concede

 

[Reiner04]

When was it contradicted again?

In the Saiyan saga but Let's keep the discussion we know will have the same result and dance out, especially when has been repeated and rejected countless times.

 

[omegabronic]

When was it contradicted again?

i had 2 examples, "so either the living world and otherworld are there own spacetimes or only the living world only has its own spacetime in the macrocosm which would mean that every unverse in the multiverse has there own space times" as well as the afterlife not having time was contradicted numerous times in the series

i brought up the first one as an unlikely possibility but my main point is the second one. When was it contradicted btw

time passed on the living universe when goku was on the afterlife, with it being an important plot point for to hurry up to get there on time, if it had no time then that would have been irrelevant since from his perspective no time at all would have passed in the living world, also other times in the buu and cell saga where similar things happened(time moving from the perspective of who is on the afterlife) and also most of all, the realm being affected by time travel, if it had no time it wouldn't be affected at all

regardless, the afterlife having no time is not accepted on the wiki, it was brought up before and it was rejected numerous times in past threads, can we please not derail the thread with not accepted stuff? if you think it qualifies make a thread about it after this one is finished

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

time passed on the living universe when goku was on the afterlife, with it being an important plot point for to hurry up to get there on time, if it had no time then that would have been irrelevant since from his perspective no time at all would have passed in the living world, also other times in the buu and cell saga where similar things happened(time moving from the perspective of who is on the afterlife) and also most of all, the realm being affected by time travel, if it had no time it wouldn't be affected at all

regardless, the afterlife having no time is not accepted on the wiki, it was brought up before and it was rejected numerous times in past threads, can we please not derail the thread with not accepted stuff? if you think it qualifies make a thread about it after this one is finished

aight, then the multiverse being Universal is fine, though the main cast should all keep there rating and only zeno's and super shenrons rating change