Minor removal of Self-Sustenance from Spider-Man, Iron Man, Super Dog and other characters

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Self-Sustenance is the ability to maintain oneself infinitely without the typical requirements of life.

Oxygen is a Typical Requirement of Life, and so is food. These characters would die without Oxygen or Food so they clearly don't qualify. And if it's via a suit/tank then it still does not qualify as it is not infinite.

Plus the term Self-Sustenance is pretty clear, it is to sustain oneself, through oneself.

 

[Pikaman]

These characters would die without Oxygen or Food so they clearly don't qualify. And if it's via a suit/tank then it still does not qualify as it is not infinite

Not to mention they still would die without oxygen or food, it’s just they have a source of it where there normally isn’t.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ah so it makes no sense that we use a standard you don't agree with? If your equipment grants you the ability to exist without oxygen despite still requiring it it's completely fine.

This is complete semantics.

Standard? Did you bother reading it? Please don't comment such none-sense. Read what others say. My OP thread explains perfectly. And many other members including staff explained it perfectly. Dang, it is not your issue if you can't differ the difference.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Alright. I will change my OP thread and explain everything deeper and better since as I did not except, this was not straightforward enough

 

[Qawsedf234]

u're literally suggesting to remove an ability from these characters without replacing anything that would actually make sense for them to survive in space.

We might need to make a new power or something, but the OP is right those are not self-substance

Type 1: Respiratory Self-Sustenance: The ability to live indefinitely without oxygen (or whatever substance that the creature's species breathes)

The characters mentioned still require oxygen to live. If it wasn't present they would die.

 

[Propellus]

We might need to make a new power or something, but the OP is right those are not self-substance

True, but I would suggest a Type 4 for when it comes to gear though similar to how Underwater Breathing is treated

 

[Dereck03]

That would require a separate thread to add to the page, also as it is a P&A it will be for staff, I do not think it is controversial or anything like that, it is a simple addition, although I do not know what others think, I do not care whether to add it or not.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Probably just change the Underwater breathing page to be more generic and include oxygen taken from other environmental factors.

 

[Propellus]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/new-typing-to-self-sustenance.142502/#post-5102544

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I'm against this. Characters who use suits aren't going to somehow fight without them unless it's optional equipment.

Them having their suits as part of equipment should give them self sustenance just as much as technique mimicry is listed as power mimicry

 

[Blackcurrant91]

This is the equivelant of removing explosion manipulation from people who have grenades because they aren't actually manipulating explosions or removing abilities granted via tech from your suit or removing fire manipulation from someone who has a flame thrower because they aren't actually manipulating flames.

I heavily disagree with this.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Standard? Did you bother reading it? Please don't comment such none-sense. Read what others say. My OP thread explains perfectly. And many other members including staff explained it perfectly. Dang, it is not your issue if you can't differ the difference.

Is this just your default reaction to anyone disagreeing with you? You tend to accuse people of not reading stuff alot.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Non-Standard Breathing

Non-Standard Breathing is the ability to breathe in environments that baseline human beings would find hazardous to breathe in. This may be accomplished through the usage of gills or other physiological traits, equipment, creating air pockets, or otherwise finding methods to breathe in hazardous...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Everyone that has type 1 here should be changed to type 3 underwater breathing or the page should be changed to include vacuum of space as well.

Problem solved.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I'm against this. Characters who use suits aren't going to somehow fight without them unless it's optional equipment.

Them having their suits as part of equipment should give them self sustenance just as much as technique mimicry is listed as power mimicry

It's not a matter of whether their suits are standard equipment or not. Self-Sustenance is for people who DONT NEED Oxygen, not people who just so happen to have oxygen on them 24/7.

And once again, Self-Sustenance is for indefinite amounts of time, not 74 Hours and then I need to refill my tanks.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Actually I'd propose we just annex Underwater Breathing and umbrella all forms of breathing outside of Earth's atmosphere as a new ability: Non-Standard Breathing.

Type 1: Superhuman - Breathing in toxic or hazardous atmospheres.

Type 2: Assisted - Breathing with an apparatus or suit that supplies oxygen or other essential breathing gas.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Actually I'd propose we just annex Underwater Breathing and umbrella all forms of breathing outside of Earth's atmosphere as a new ability: Non-Standard Breathing.

Type 1: Superhuman - Breathing in toxic or hazardous atmospheres.

Type 2: Assisted - Breathing with an apparatus or suit that supplies oxygen or other essential breathing gas.

This is the best course of action for sure.

 

[Dereck03]

Actually I'd propose we just annex Underwater Breathing and umbrella all forms of breathing outside of Earth's atmosphere as a new ability: Non-Standard Breathing.

Type 1: Superhuman - Breathing in toxic or hazardous atmospheres.

Type 2: Assisted - Breathing with an apparatus or suit that supplies oxygen or other essential breathing gas.

Somewhat seems fine.

 

[Damage3245]

Actually I'd propose we just annex Underwater Breathing and umbrella all forms of breathing outside of Earth's atmosphere as a new ability: Non-Standard Breathing.

Type 1: Superhuman - Breathing in toxic or hazardous atmospheres.

Type 2: Assisted - Breathing with an apparatus or suit that supplies oxygen or other essential breathing gas.

Sounds like a fine idea to me.

 

[Armorchompy]

do we really need 40 thousand P&A pages and types for everything? can't we just add it under self-sustenance type 1 and say that having your own independent supply of oxygen can also get you the ability? it seems simpler to apply and more straightforward

 

[Damage3245]

What if we add a Type 4 to Self-Sustenance for when characters use equipment to extend their breathing in a hostile environment? (Spacesuits, diving suits, etc.)

Characters who don't need Oxygen at all get Type 1. Characters who use equipment / supplements get Type 4.

 

[Dalesean027]

What if we add a Type 4 to Self-Sustenance for when characters use equipment to extend their breathing in a hostile environment? (Spacesuits, diving suits, etc.)

Characters who don't need Oxygen at all get Type 1. Characters who use equipment / supplements get Type 4.

I think this sounds the best and is the most simple solution to the problem

do we really need 40 thousand P&A pages and types for everything? can't we just add it under self-sustenance type 1 and say that having your own independent supply of oxygen can also get you the ability? it seems simpler to apply and more straightforward

 

[Armorchompy]

What if we add a Type 4 to Self-Sustenance for when characters use equipment to extend their breathing in a hostile environment? (Spacesuits, diving suits, etc.)

Characters who don't need Oxygen at all get Type 1. Characters who use equipment / supplements get Type 4.

ig that's fine?

 

[Blackcurrant91]

What if we add a Type 4 to Self-Sustenance for when characters use equipment to extend their breathing in a hostile environment? (Spacesuits, diving suits, etc.)

Characters who don't need Oxygen at all get Type 1. Characters who use equipment / supplements get Type 4.

I guess the reason it's a bit awkawrd is because Under Water Breathing type 3 is kind of already this.

 

[Armorchompy]

i think it's just way easier to not add another type and need to edit a bunch of profiles

 

[Damage3245]

i think it's just way easier to not add another type and need to edit a bunch of profiles

If we do that, then the definition for Type 1 would need to be updated at least.

 

[Armorchompy]

ye

 

[ImmortalDread]

Actually I'd propose we just annex Underwater Breathing and umbrella all forms of breathing outside of Earth's atmosphere as a new ability: Non-Standard Breathing.

Type 1: Superhuman - Breathing in toxic or hazardous atmospheres.

Type 2: Assisted - Breathing with an apparatus or suit that supplies oxygen or other essential breathing gas.

I am open for other solutions. This seems fine

 

[ImmortalDread]

It's not a matter of whether their suits are standard equipment or not. Self-Sustenance is for people who DONT NEED Oxygen, not people who just so happen to have oxygen on them 24/7.

And once again, Self-Sustenance is for indefinite amounts of time, not 74 Hours and then I need to refill my tanks.

Again this is current definition of our standard, either we change the rewording or a new type. I am open for the new solution. But currently those characters don't fit with our new current.

(Taking this response as explanation)

 

[ImmortalDread]

Is this just your default reaction to anyone disagreeing with you? You tend to accuse people of not reading stuff alot.

This is not my default reaction but if you can't even understand the terms "idefinite" or "living without oxygen" for whole life and for infinite, then I can't help. Other people understood it and said let's do other solutions. I did not disagree with it, at least this is fine for me.

 

[ImmortalDread]

What if we add a Type 4 to Self-Sustenance for when characters use equipment to extend their breathing in a hostile environment? (Spacesuits, diving suits, etc.)

Characters who don't need Oxygen at all get Type 1. Characters who use equipment / supplements get Type 4.

This seems really perfect. At least this is reasonable one

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I just feel like Underwater Breathing is an unnecessary ability that can be compounded with breathing anything that isn't air.

Also Self-Sustenence on paper means indefinite propagation without the essential nutrition and/or processes.

Carrying that nutrition and/or process with you should be a separate ability, which was why I suggested Non-Standard Breathing.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Thanks for your input, W admin as always.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I just feel like Underwater Breathing is an unnecessary ability that can be compounded with breathing anything that isn't air.

Also Self-Sustenence on paper means indefinite propagation without the essential nutrition and/or processes.

Carrying that nutrition and/or process with you should be a separate ability, which was why I suggested Non-Standard Breathing.

I agree with Sir_Ovens.

 

[Propellus]

I just feel like Underwater Breathing is an unnecessary ability that can be compounded with breathing anything that isn't air.

But then what would happen if some characters that can only breathe in water and not in air? (Many real life fishes for an example)

 

[Sir_Ovens]

That would still be non-standard breathing. It's breathing anything that's not atmospheric air.

 

[Naito-desu]

Standard? Did you bother reading it?

Is this your default response to anyone who disagrees with you? He read it perfectly, it seems like you're not the one reading his arguments well.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Ah so it makes no sense that we use a standard you don't agree with? If your equipment grants you the ability to exist without oxygen despite still requiring it it's completely fine.

This is complete semantics.

The equipment offer oxygen and protection against the lack of oxygen in the environment.

I don’t ever recall of equipment (like a suit) somehow not retaining oxygen as well as other things.

 

[Naito-desu]

I agree with maintaining the standard we currently have and disagree with OP. If you have equipment that grants you an ability, it should be noted down, it's completely arbitrary to want to make this distinction. It's Self-Sustenance not Infinite Self-Sustenance, limitations can be put in descriptions, nothing has to be cut into pieces because you alone thinks it doesn't make sense.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

It is technically not truly self sustenance in the sense the suit or other equipment is providing the sustenance, not the body itself from a scientific standpoint.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

We have already come to a better way to deal with it in

https://vsbattles.com/threads/new-typing-to-self-sustenance.142502/#post-5102544