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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Arc7Kuroi said:
Yhwach defeated Kenpachi” does not have multiple interpretations. It has a single interpretation, Yhwach, the leader of the Quincy and the main antag of the final arc, defeated Kenpachi in combat. This is not some vague comment that has a variety of interpretations. It is simply telling us who defeated Kenpachi Zaraki, that being Yhwach.

The only piece of information I have to assume is that Yhwach swapped with Royd after defeating Kenpachi. Which is logically deduced from The Dagger statement, and holds 0 contradictions.
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It literally does have multiple interpretations given the context of the scene Arc🗿 i've explain to you the reason why it has multiple interpretations in my previous post which you haven't debunk, outside of saying "Occam's Razor GG" and "Omniscient Narrator GG" which aren't counters to what i'm asserting.

That isn't the only piece of information as previously explained above, it also doesn't logically deduced in comparison to the assertion which is being made my multiple people in this thread, mine included.

Gooberism incarnate from Arc rn.
 
Deceived said:
It literally does have multiple interpretations given the context of the scene Arc🗿 i've explain to you the reason why it has multiple interpretations in my previous post which you haven't debunk, outside of saying "Occam's Razor GG" and "Omniscient Narrator GG" which aren't counters to what i'm asserting.

That isn't the only piece of information as previously explained above, it also doesn't logically deduced in comparison to the assertion which is being made my multiple people in this thread, mine included.

Gooberism incarnate from Arc rn.
Click to expand...
I’ve also explained how your interpretation requires more assumptions than my own. And none of the assumptions you make are better than what I make.

Yhwach defeated Kenny implies Yhwach, not Royd, defeated Kenny. Which simply means that Royd and Yhwach swapped places after Yhwach defeated Kenny. Which you have provided no evidence to contradict that deduction from The Dagger’s statement.

Until information presents itself to contradict Yhwach and Royd swapping places after Kenny was defeated, my claim holds.
 
Damage3245 said:
Hypersonic comes from Orihime's attack speed. I assume the High Hypersonic are somehow upscaled or multiplied from that.
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Should probably be listed on the verse page then, cause I can’t find a calc or anything.

Upscaling probably isn’t it since Orihime’s value is Mach 7.41 and Mach 25 is High Hypersonic, but if it’s a multiplier it should be noted
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
Should probably be listed on the verse page then, cause I can’t find a calc or anything.

Upscaling probably isn’t it since Orihime’s value is Mach 7.41 and Mach 25 is High Hypersonic, but if it’s a multiplier it should be noted
Click to expand...
It could come from backscaling off of Ichigo’s Bankai speed. When I go through and revise stats and scaling arc by arc I’ll be sure to clearly indicate where it comes from
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I’ve also explained how your interpretation requires more assumptions than my own. And none of the assumptions you make are better than what I make.
Click to expand...
No you haven't, and even if you did they've probably been completely debunked by me. And the claims that i'm currently making are better than your claims since they make more sense logically and narratively in comparison to your claims which not only require more assumptions to make but also directly contradict certain narrative implications in the story.

Arc7Kuroi said:
Yhwach defeated Kenny implies Yhwach, not Royd, defeated Kenny. Which simply means that Royd and Yhwach swapped places after Yhwach defeated Kenny. Which you have provided no evidence to contradict that deduction from The Dagger’s statement.
Click to expand...
It implies Yhwach, yes. It doesn't inherently imply Yhwach himself was the one who defeated Kenpachi since Rody Loyd was disguised as Yhwach during this specific encounter, the statement is inherently open to interpretation given this context, you objectively can't debunk this so you should stop trying to.

It doesn't "simply" mean that at all as explained above, and i'm not contradicting the Dagger statement at all, i'm contesting your interpretation of the feat. And i'm explaining to you why this statement doesn't inherently imply your interpretation is true. This seems to be a large misunderstanding on your part.

Arc7Kuroi said:
Until information presents itself to contradict Yhwach and Royd swapping places after Kenny was defeated, my claim holds.
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Honestly this seems like we just have to agree to disagree on this since neither of us are going to change our stance on it tbh.
 
Deceived said:
Honestly this seems like we just have to agree to disagree on this since neither of us are going to change our stance on it tbh.
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That’s fine, I’m not inherently against saying Royd possibly scales above Kenpachi anyhow, I still hold the stance that the statement more than likely implies Yhwach fought Kenny rather than Royd tho.
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
Also this calc uses Mach 500 for Gin’s speed of his bankai:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Bankai Ichigo adapting to Kamishini no Yari

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Wasn’t Gin lying about his stats anyways? I could be wrong but I remember seeing someone say that
Click to expand...
Gin is an interesting can of worms that I plan on opening during my stats revisions. But one of the databook statements can be interpreted as he was telling the truth to Ichigo, and just that he only lied to Aizen.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Gin is an interesting can of worms that I plan on opening during my stats revisions. But one of the databook statements can be interpreted as he was telling the truth to Ichigo, and just that he only lied to Aizen.
Click to expand...
What is there that is new that could be brought up about Gin?
 
Damage3245 said:
What is there that is new that could be brought up about Gin?
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Semantics with the way the statement is worded and confirmed in the databook 😎 ya know the fun stuff that gets debated over multiple pages. I don’t think my planned proposals with it will be too controversial for what it’s worth
 
Damage3245 said:
Since the one who defeated Kenpachi, whether it was Royd or Yhwach, had Yhwach's appearance, personality and memories, then metaphysically it could be said that whoever defeated Kenpachi was Yhwach no matter which one of them it was.
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Not this how it works, Royd is able to act as Yhwach, hence that's the whole meaning of his existence. To be able to copy others, not only their appearance, also their memories and personality.
 
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/991781831252922490/1016105832141819904/0620-004.png
I find it odd how the elite sterns holy forms are always changing. Like Gerards holy form shows a holo and wings in some scans but in other scans we only see the wings. Later on in Gerards holy form appears more developed. Same with lile and askin
 
Reio35 said:
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/991781831252922490/1016105832141819904/0620-004.png
I find it odd how the elite sterns holy forms are always changing. Like Gerards holy form shows a holo and wings in some scans but in other scans we only see the wings. Later on in Gerards holy form appears more developed. Same with lile and askin
Click to expand...
Kubo probably hadn’t settled on a design yet, kinda like how Ulq’s base design changed up a bit before being consistent
 
So what is Aizen's Range? Like in the last arc he said he could shoot down something in another dimension but wtf does that equate to?
 
Is it actually in another dimension or just in another space? I do remember the dimension statement but it never seemed right
 
Arkenis said:
Is it actually in another dimension or just in another space? I do remember the dimension statement but it never seemed right
Click to expand...
0223-007.png

Yeah different dimension.
 
Arkenis said:
Is it actually in another dimension or just in another space? I do remember the dimension statement but it never seemed right
Click to expand...
Pretty sure it's an isolated dimension that exists within the Soul Society, hence why characters such as Mimihagi and Ichigo are able to physically travel between them and why the method of reaching Reiokyu involves shooting a tube into the sky

So when Yamamoto says it's in another dimension, he's not exactly wrong, it's an isolated dimension that exists within the Soul Society dimension, think of a circle within another circle with the outer circle representing Soul Society and the inner circle representing Reiokyu, at least, that's how I see it.
 
Purgy said:
Pretty sure it's an isolated dimension that exists within the Soul Society, hence why characters such as Mimihagi and Ichigo are able to physically travel between them and why the method of reaching Reiokyu involves shooting a tube into the sky

So when Yamamoto says it's in another dimension, he's not exactly wrong, it's an isolated dimension that exists within the Soul Society dimension, think of a circle within another circle with the outer circle representing Soul Society and the inner circle representing Reiokyu, at least, that's how I see it.
Click to expand...
You mean a pocket dimension or subspace?Which I think is the most accurate. The soul palace is a weird dimension it has its own clouds and atmosphere. Tho the sun might not be part of the dimension. It's also too far up to be apart of the ss planet unless the planet of is massive
 
Do we currently use Mask's cheers as multipliers? His cheers would be equivalent to a Bankai multiplier at the very least and Judging from Kensei's Bankai - they clearly buff power and perhaps even speed considering that Mask managed to blitz Kensei twice with a single cheer.

Reason why I'm asking is because Mask one shot Shikai Renji, right?

However even after 17 cheers and Vollstandig on top of that he still couldn't do jack to Post-RGT Renji.
 
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Multi-Continent level SS arc characters upgrade or Mayuri downgrade?

Mayuri scales to "defeated a Zombie Tōshirō," but he didn't. Toshiro one shot him everytime he went bankai and Mayuri won through a hax drug that paralyzed Toshiro while he tested drugs on him. And Toshiro scales to Multi-Continent for fighting Mayuri? Makes no sense. They scale to each other on a wrong scaling anyways. Mayuri even tells Zombie Toshiro that he never trains on any Arc and just upgrades his weapons and gadgets.

Bleach upgrade or downgrade?


Multi-Continent level Vollstandig Uryu?
 
Damage3245 said:
@AppleLord; Mayuri scales primarily to stabbing Kenpachi.
Click to expand...
That didn't answer my question. I'll try again. Is Mayuri's feat of stabbing Kenpachi legit? Are we to upgrade SS arc Uryu to TYBW Kenpachi level based on Mayuri saying he never trains and just upgrades his weapons and gadgets? Or we downgrading Mayuri? Let's say Mayuri stabbed Kenpachi on the back while he had his guard down. Or an outlier. As contradicted with Ichigo's action of not been able to casually cut Kenpachi in SS arc.
 
AppleLord said:
That didn't answer my question. I'll try again. Is Mayuri's feat of stabbing Kenpachi legit? Are we to upgrade SS arc Uryu to TYBW Kenpachi level based on Mayuri saying he never trains and just upgrades his weapons and gadgets? Or we downgrading Mayuri? Let's say Mayuri stabbed Kenpachi on the back while he had his guard down. Or an outlier. As contradicted with Ichigo's action of not been able to casually cut Kenpachi in SS arc.
Click to expand...
I might be wrong but wasnt the only time Uryu actually damaged Mayuri,when he used Letzt Still?
 
AppleLord said:
That didn't answer my question. I'll try again. Is Mayuri's feat of stabbing Kenpachi legit? Are we to upgrade SS arc Uryu to TYBW Kenpachi level based on Mayuri saying he never trains and just upgrades his weapons and gadgets? Or we downgrading Mayuri? Let's say Mayuri stabbed Kenpachi on the back while he had his guard down. Or an outlier. As contradicted with Ichigo's action of not been able to casually cut Kenpachi in SS arc.
Click to expand...
I was just answering the issue about potential circular scaling.

If we disregarded the feat of Mayuri stabbing Kenpachi in the back, then he wouldn't be Multi-Continent level anymore.
 
Damage3245 said:
I was just answering the issue about potential circular scaling.

If we disregarded the feat of Mayuri stabbing Kenpachi in the back, then he wouldn't be Multi-Continent level anymore.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Even the reason added for defeating Toshiro should be remove from his profile as evidence of his tier since he won that fight through hax. He got one shot the moment Hitsugaya went bankai.
 
Bankai toshiro did indeed one shot myuir when he was zombie. So If myuri scales to kenpachi for stabbing him off gurad then toshiro should scale.

Tho I don't think either of them scale whatsoever. Kenpachi stated he could cutt toshiro in half if he didn't hold back. Same toshiro is above myuir
 
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Reio35 said:
Bankai toshiro did indeed one shot myuir when he was zombie. So If myuri scales to kenpachi for stabbing him off gurad then toshiro should scale.

Tho I don't think either of them scale whatsoever. Kenpachi stated he could cutt toshiro in half if he didn't hold back. Same toshiro is above myuir
Click to expand...
That was Shikai Kenpachi that said that to Toshiro no?
 
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