- 16,984
- 11,342
literally a lot of profiles are like that, not only Jesus but other abrahamic figures as well
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Deleting the Sun Wukong profile
- Thread starter Ellbekarym
- Start date
- Status
- 116
- 53
- Thread starter
- #42
For example? All the examples given so far have been proven wrong.
- 2,539
- 1,276
Best argument that can be made is that he is a worshipped religious figure...But so is Goku.
- 16,984
- 11,342
Bruce Almighty
American God
Unsong
and not, it wasn't proven wrong, these verses literally have copy and pasted entire quotes of the Bible itself.
and again, it's clearly different when it can be used or when it cannot be used, such as The Passion of Christ, it definitely can't and will never be used in VS Battles, because it is not just a ''fictional version'' in a book with the purpose of entertaining the public
- 3,461
- 1,726
- 16,984
- 11,342
- 116
- 53
- Thread starter
- #47
American God is the most easily eliminated. Christianity does not recognize that gods are creations of the human mind. It does not recognize that the power of Jesus depends on the worship of men. It does not believe that all gods exist. The paradigm is not Christian.
Bruce Almighty is very distantly Christian. From an iconographic or theological point of view, he does not correspond to Christianity. Besides, he is only 2-C, a profile of the Christian God would be much higher. While, I repeat, the profiles in our case would be identical.
Unsong, as I said before, is indeed tendentious. It deserves a special discussion on this verse.
I repeat: Guanyin is not treated as a fictional version of Guanyin. Iconographically, theologically, it is the same. You have to call a spade a spade.
In my time zone it's getting late, so I'll wish you good morning/good evening accordingly.
- 3,461
- 1,726
I suppose I am an object of worship, then.
- 16,984
- 11,342
I didnt said that it does, I said that it gets the concept and entire texts
- 16,984
- 11,342
you're not alone
- 19,585
- 3,987
Honestly speaking would the Biblical God be higher then 2-C? I havnt read the bible in years but I don’t remember anything that reaches 2-B let alone higher.
Wait I have like never seen people refer to Sun Wukong, the Monkey King, as a real living being from the past.
- 3,461
- 1,726
I suppose this means our presence is forbidden on the wiki. Very unfortunateyou're not alone
But to be sincere, I shall spectate for now and contemplate creating a thread on our epic poem policies.
- 5,985
- 4,307
The previous CRT has ensured Sun Wukong's profile based on JttW itself, so I object the deletion.
Also, I do think it is already hard to deal with all possible thing regarding the profile and we just delete Sun Wukong for this reason? We should not be over-sensitive.
Also, I will refrain from further argument in this topic since the discussion would be heated regardless the result.
Right.
I agree.
Also, I do think it is already hard to deal with all possible thing regarding the profile and we just delete Sun Wukong for this reason? We should not be over-sensitive.
Right.
Also, I will refrain from further argument in this topic since the discussion would be heated regardless the result.
- 13,136
- 3,124
Twitter...
- 5,985
- 4,307
- 13,136
- 3,124
Feels like I'm in Twitter.
- 15,708
- 11,452
I believe deleting the profile to be incredibly unnecessary. Many verses take heavy inspiration from religion.
Castlevania is quite literally the story of a man trying to get revenge on a Christian God, and it uses multiple beings from Christianity.
The Nasuverse, namely Fate, is well known for relatively very faithful retellings of mythology and even modern religion. The literal Buddah is one of the characters we have a profile for, and others are individuals heavily associated with Christianity or even beings taken directly from the bible.
Some of the most prevalent characters in the SCP Foundation are literal, non-figurative, actual, biblical Cain and Able.
Lucifer Morningstar (DC Comics). Just Lucifer Morningstar (DC Comics).
Hell, even the lore of Puyo ************* Puyo takes heavily from the bible, Satan originally being an angel known as Lucifer and having lost his wings due to questioning The Creator (An obvious stand in for God).
The Tao of Pooh is a book that exists, but we aren't deleting Winnie the Pooh's profile over it.
The fact is, Journey to the West is a story based on a religion, not a religious text. And if we ban it, that sets a genuinely dangerous precedent for other verses.
And going with the argument the OP presented that removing Wukong's first two keys and then changing the profile's name would result in a religious figure, no matter how faithful to the original religion the writer tries to be, there are always going to be minor or major differences from if we theoretically made a profile for said figure.
Could not disagree with the OP more.
Castlevania is quite literally the story of a man trying to get revenge on a Christian God, and it uses multiple beings from Christianity.
The Nasuverse, namely Fate, is well known for relatively very faithful retellings of mythology and even modern religion. The literal Buddah is one of the characters we have a profile for, and others are individuals heavily associated with Christianity or even beings taken directly from the bible.
Some of the most prevalent characters in the SCP Foundation are literal, non-figurative, actual, biblical Cain and Able.
Lucifer Morningstar (DC Comics). Just Lucifer Morningstar (DC Comics).
Hell, even the lore of Puyo ************* Puyo takes heavily from the bible, Satan originally being an angel known as Lucifer and having lost his wings due to questioning The Creator (An obvious stand in for God).
The Tao of Pooh is a book that exists, but we aren't deleting Winnie the Pooh's profile over it.
The fact is, Journey to the West is a story based on a religion, not a religious text. And if we ban it, that sets a genuinely dangerous precedent for other verses.
And going with the argument the OP presented that removing Wukong's first two keys and then changing the profile's name would result in a religious figure, no matter how faithful to the original religion the writer tries to be, there are always going to be minor or major differences from if we theoretically made a profile for said figure.
Could not disagree with the OP more.
0ホルスファルコン将軍0
He/Him- 1,676
- 3,376
I object due to the reasons given above
- 16,083
- 6,125
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 26,787
- 12,651
Yeah....
As much as I like Jack, that Costume Design is not a good thing.
- 15,708
- 11,452
- 19,759
- 21,301
They flip a coin, heads they stick to lore, tails they make Atilla the Hun a giant Kaiju anime ayy lmao girl.
- 40,967
- 16,397
Yeah, disagree as well with this CRT
- 34,794
- 42,282
While it is heavily influenced by Taoism and Buddhism, it's still merely an adaptation rather than the actual religious folklore itself. So I agree with the others and disagree with the deletion FRA.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,588
Disagree FRA. You can also add Touhou Project to the list of verses heavily reliant on real world religious beliefs. The series can't go 20 seconds without referring to some god or concept in Shinto, Buddhism, or Taoism. At this point you may as well suggest the deletion of half the wiki.
Perhaps the best religious reference in Touhou is this, though.
- 35,178
- 41,793
Shin Megami Tensei much?
Assassin's Creed also heavily relies on actual religion mythology and modifies it to a considerable extent to show the gods as just highly-advanced beings with superpowers and high-tech machinery and weaponry and features heavy motifs from a lot of religions, even the three Abrahamic faiths of Christianity, Islam and Judaism to a certain extent (EVEN DIRECT REFERENCES TO THE BIBLE), but in the end of the day, it's still fiction as its opening disclaimer straight up states.
Assassin's Creed also heavily relies on actual religion mythology and modifies it to a considerable extent to show the gods as just highly-advanced beings with superpowers and high-tech machinery and weaponry and features heavy motifs from a lot of religions, even the three Abrahamic faiths of Christianity, Islam and Judaism to a certain extent (EVEN DIRECT REFERENCES TO THE BIBLE), but in the end of the day, it's still fiction as its opening disclaimer straight up states.
Last edited:
azontr
Any/All- 42,104
- 51,204
This tbh.
- 16,083
- 6,125
azontr
Any/All- 42,104
- 51,204
Are you making a profile for the concept of Tao itself or some fictional parody of it?
- 16,083
- 6,125
Former.
- 12,085
- 2,101
Neutral, It seems Journey to the West is a bit different from works like fate which merely take symbolism from real world religions, while JTTW is meant to be the exact same character, like it's literally meant to be THE Buddhist deities just as they are in actual theology (As compared to most other works in which they still have their alterations and differences).
Though, if this is all from the fictional novel and not from external Buddhist philosophy, than it's less of a problem
Though, if this is all from the fictional novel and not from external Buddhist philosophy, than it's less of a problem
Last edited:
azontr
Any/All- 42,104
- 51,204
I don't... think so? Maybe? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be allowed since it isn't some fictional approximation of it but the actual religious philosophy, but hey, I'm not the authority on that.
- 3,461
- 1,726
I wouldn't recommend it. Taoism is still a religious philosophy.
- 16,083
- 6,125
- 19,759
- 21,301
That's actually extremely common, you know how often a work will just have "God" roll up, intended to be God, and what not? If we're talking intent, the intent is for these figures to BE the figures they're drawing from not "similar dude but same name and lore".
To use JoJo for example because I **** with that, LITERALLY has Jesus Christ as a pivotal character, yes, Jesus, we see him carry the cross, get nailed, die, even have his body cleaned by Joseph, roll up and **** off after leaving the cave after a few days and so on, he's also visually, if not the same, as most common depictions of him. Even some famous art commonly seen in churches is copy pasted into the manga.
Literally Jesus is a critical part of JoJo lore, 100% intended to be Jesus, and it's actually pretty close in terms of how his history lines up with the biblical depiction (in that it's identical up to modern day, where he's just a corpse and the main plot of the part is gathering his dead carcass).
We aren't deleting the most based JoJo part tho, because while, contextually it IS Jesus, it's still merely an adaption and drawing from the religious events, like, think of it how Hitler is commonly utilized in war games and sometimes even developed further (SMT, Wolfenstein, etc), it's literally meant to be Hitler, but it's still just a adaption.
Yes, I used Hitler to corroborate a point about Jesus, don't @ me.
- 5,985
- 4,307
It is hard to interrupt since fictional interruption of Tao (Way) varies. In some works, it can be just to show "my martial arts is badass". In some other works, it can be universial, mulitversial, and to outerversial and higher. But it is not the topic of this thread, move on.
I feel that there is overwhelming consensus which rejects this proposal.
- Status
