• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Chou SSJ Vegeta MFTL+ upgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
GodlyCharmander said:
A singular panel isn't indicative of how well they did against Broly.

The movie version is the one we should use, and Broly is far stronger than SSB
Click to expand...
Yes, but Perfected UI Goku, Jiren and such are all stronger than SSJ Broly. I didn't say SSJ Broly = SSB Goku. But Perfected UI Goku will scale above SSJ Gogeta as it's still above Broly
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Yes, but Perfected UI Goku, Jiren and such are all stronger than SSJ Broly. I didn't say SSJ Broly = SSB Goku. But Perfected UI Goku will scale above SSJ Gogeta as it's still above Broly
Click to expand...
Why? You haven't made an argument for this yet.
SSJ Broly >>>> SSB Goku, and Vegeta
SSJ Gogeta > SSJ Broly

How does UI come into this equation?
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Why? You haven't made an argument for this yet.
SSJ Broly >>>> SSB Goku, and Vegeta
SSJ Gogeta > SSJ Broly

How does UI come into this equation?
Click to expand...
Because Whis outright stated that no one in the universe is stronger than Goku and Vegeta Pre-Granolah wish

That would mean SSBE Vegeta > SSJ Broly and > SSJ Gogeta in Broly Saga

Perfected UI Goku is >>>>> SSBE based on how it completely stomped Moro 73, while SSBE Vegeta couldn't dent him at all
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Because Whis outright stated that no one in the universe is stronger than Goku and Vegeta Pre-Granolah wish

That would mean SSBE Vegeta > SSJ Broly and > SSJ Gogeta in Broly Saga

Perfected UI Goku is >>>>> SSBE based on how it completely stomped Moro 73, while SSBE Vegeta couldn't dent him at all
Click to expand...
But you said ToP Perfect UI, and Jiren too.

I can agree with the rest though.
 
There wasn't much of a time skip between ToP and Broly Saga. Goku couldn't use UI Sign or Perfected UI at will (as he only managed to do it in the Moro Saga), which is why in the movie he resorted to fuse with Vegeta instead of relying on Ultra Instinct. Goku also did better against SSJ Broly when using SSB (even though he was much weaker), then him using SSB against Jiren before he went UI, who not only matched Jiren, but overpowered him

That greatly inplies that ToP Perfected UI Goku is > SSJ Broly in the manga, and thus > SSJ Gogeta as well. That applies to Jiren as well
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
There wasn't much of a time skip between ToP and Broly Saga. Goku couldn't use UI Sign or Perfected UI at will (as he only managed to do it in the Moro Saga), which is why in the movie he resorted to fuse with Vegeta instead of relying on Ultra Instinct. Goku also did better against SSJ Broly when using SSB (even though he was much weaker), then him using SSB against Jiren before he went UI, who not only matched Jiren, but overpowered him

That greatly inplies that ToP Perfected UI Goku is > SSJ Broly in the manga, and thus > SSJ Gogeta as well. That applies to Jiren as well
Click to expand...
They did train regardless, so you cannot backscale them.
Also,
"did better"? That's subjective when it was clearly 2v1, and Goku would've been curbstomped had Vegeta not been on his side.

Jiren and ToP MUI are off the chart for me, I'm sorry. I agree with everything else.
 
Well, do I need to do a different CRT to apply the scaling on my blog? I updated to match Gilad's suggestion (except ToP arc), so it should be good to go.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Is that not when he was confirmed to be (alogside Vegeta) the strongest mortal known to Whis? You can't scale ToP Goku to that because he has advanced since then.
Click to expand...
He says Jiren and MUI ToP Goku should scale to SSJ Broly because SSB Goku did better against Broly than he did against Jiren.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Is that not when he was confirmed to be (alogside Vegeta) the strongest mortal known to Whis? You can't scale ToP Goku to that because he has advanced since then.
Click to expand...
But that was not what I was talking about. I was talking about scaling PUI Goku from ToP/Broly Saga above SSJ Broly, and above SSJ Gogeta as well.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
He says Jiren and MUI ToP Goku should scale to SSJ Broly because SSB Goku did better against Broly than he did against Jiren.
Click to expand...
What I basically said is that the gap that was shown between SSB Goku and Jiren is bigger than the gap between SSB Goku and SSJ Broly, meaning that with PUI he wouls scale above Broly and SSJ Gogeta
 
GodlyCharmander said:
He says Jiren and MUI ToP Goku should scale to SSJ Broly because SSB Goku did better against Broly than he did against Jiren.
Click to expand...
Broly constantly got stronger during that fight, Goku did well against him, but was eventually overwhelmed and left with no choice but to fuse. Broly was even advancing against Gogeta himself, which is probably the reason he went SSB in the first place. Not necessarily because he was losing in SSJ, but because Broly's Reactive Power Level is so insane that you need to overwhelm it quickly with a massive power gap.

My point is, Goku can probably downscale from a weaker version of Broly, but it doesn't seem reliable to me to scale him to Broly's peak, and certainly not to Gogeta.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Broly constantly got stronger during that fight, Goku did well against him, but was eventually overwhelmed and left with no choice but to fuse. Broly was even advancing against Gogeta himself, which is probably the reason he went SSB in the first place. Not necessarily because he was losing in SSJ, but because Broly's Reactive Power Level is so insane that you need to overwhelm it quickly with a massive power gap.

My point is, Goku can probably downscale from a weaker version of Broly, but it doesn't seem reliable to me to scale him to Broly's peak, and certainly not to Gogeta.
Click to expand...
If we don't consider his insane RPL, then we'll be saying SSJ Gogeta is only 50x stronger than Base Vegeta, who could keep up with Base Broly.
 
Broly was using Wrathful against SSG Vegeta and Goku, and went SSJ on top of it
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Broly constantly got stronger during that fight, Goku did well against him, but was eventually overwhelmed and left with no choice but to fuse. Broly was even advancing against Gogeta himself, which is probably the reason he went SSB in the first place. Not necessarily because he was losing in SSJ, but because Broly's Reactive Power Level is so insane that you need to overwhelm it quickly with a massive power gap.

My point is, Goku can probably downscale from a weaker version of Broly, but it doesn't seem reliable to me to scale him to Broly's peak, and certainly not to Gogeta.
Click to expand...
I never said to scale him to LSSJ Broly or Gogeta Blue, but rather to SSJ Broly and SSJ Gogeta (before both transformed again)
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Broly was using Wrathful against SSG Vegeta and Goku, and went SSJ on top of it

I never said to scale him to LSSJ Broly or Gogeta Blue, but rather to SSJ Broly and SSJ Gogeta (before both transformed again)
Click to expand...
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
That's because he activated his Ikari form. That was well established in the movie
Click to expand...
His RPL was the main factor there. Ikari is just Great Ape in humanoid form, aka. Only a 10x amp. A 10x amp wouldn't take you anywhere near SSG.

Even if we say that Ikari isn't only 10x, and is actually an insane SSG level amp, Broly's RPL would still be nuts as it brought Broly from Base Vegeta level to SSJ Vegeta level insanely quickly.
Likewise, it brought his Ikari form from SSG level to nigh-SSB level just as quickly. And once again allowed him to keep up with SSJ Gogeta when base Gogeta was in turn keeping up with Broly moments prior.
That's 3 instances of Broly bridging a SSJ level gap extremely quickly, so I still find scaling his peak SSJ (I never even mentioned LSSJ, btw) to Goku and Vegeta unreliable.

I don't even find the argument that they weren't struggling against him particularly convincing tbh. Goku and Vegeta never even consider fusion unless there's quite literally no alternative. Here they did not only considered it, but actively fled the battlefield to have Vegeta learn it, lol.

Yeah, no, idk about everyone else's opinion on this, but I personally disagree with Goku and Vegeta scaling.
 
Goku and
UchihaSlayer96 said:
His RPL was the main factor there. Ikari is just Great Ape in humanoid form, aka. Only a 10x amp. A 10x amp wouldn't take you anywhere near SSG.
Click to expand...
What says that it was a 10 times amp?
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Even if we say that Ikari isn't only 10x, and is actually an insane SSG level amp, Broly's RPL would still be nuts as it brought Broly from Base Vegeta level to SSJ Vegeta level insanely quickly.
Likewise, it brought his Ikari form from SSG level to nigh-SSB level just as quickly. And once again allowed him to keep up with SSJ Gogeta when base Gogeta was in turn keeping up with Broly moments prior.
Click to expand...
Base Gogeta didn't actually did anything to Broly. All he did was dodge some attacks and that's it. Even Blue Goku and Vegeta did more that that compared to Base Gogeta
UchihaSlayer96 said:
That's 3 instances of Broly bridging a SSJ level gap extremely quickly, so I still find scaling his peak SSJ (I never even mentioned LSSJ, btw) to Goku and Vegeta unreliable.
Click to expand...
I never meant them scaling to LSSJ Broly (and even then, Broly was said in his LSSJ form to maybe be at the level of GoDs, that Jiren already surpassed). I meant his regular SSJ transformation
 
Can we ... not discuss this here? This has little to do with the OP. Since this was accepted, I believe I should make another CRT to address the scaling, and everyone can discuss there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Gp972
And this is to go Even Further Beyond!(Dragon Ball Classic, Z Super AP + Speed Upgrade and revamp)
2
Replies
79
Views
6K
Breadbear83
Breadbear83
Gp972
  • Locked
Super Saiyan god multiplier (dragon ball super)
2
Replies
45
Views
3K
Qawsedf234
Qawsedf234
TegamiBachi25
Vegeta vs Vegeta again
Replies
38
Views
4K
Mgebrat282
Mgebrat282
Gp972
Dbz and daima scaling
Replies
2
Views
2K
Gp972
Gp972
Robo432343
  • Locked
Ben 10 MFTL+ Anti Feats
9 10 11
Replies
432
Views
28K
Reiner04
Reiner04
Back
Top