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Touhou Revisions, Again (Sorry)

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Magician self sustenance is uncontroversial it looks like.

Time stop resistance also looks fine from what I can tell, only 1 disagreement.

Only 2 disagreements with infinite speed.

Gravity resistance is dead, we all know this by now.

Haven't seen any major disagreements with Doge's list. But the fact that 'light magic' is good enough for light manip but 'light sign' isn't still bothers me >:V

All other ability additions have yet to be evaluated.

Only 2 things in this thread have been concretely accepted/rejected. Everything else is up for debate.

Apologies for the long OP, I felt like I needed to be as thorough as possible so I didn't have to do another minor CRT later on and yET I STILL MISSED SOME SHIT >:V
 
FujiwaraYesMokou said:
Magician self sustenance is uncontroversial it looks like.

Time stop resistance also looks fine from what I can tell, only 1 disagreement.

Only 2 disagreements with infinite speed.

Gravity resistance is dead, we all know this by now.

Haven't seen any major disagreements with Doge's list. But the fact that 'light magic' is good enough for light manip but 'light sign' isn't still bothers me >:V

All other ability additions have yet to be evaluated.

Only 2 things in this thread have been concretely accepted/rejected. Everything else is up for debate.

Apologies for the long OP, I felt like I needed to be as thorough as possible so I didn't have to do another minor CRT later on and yET I STILL MISSED SOME SHIT >:V
Click to expand...
I mean if you still want light manipulation for Reimu at the very least it's fine since fantasy seal is made up of light bullets
 
Also here's a super blatant use of light manipulation for Youmu. There are two translations I'll post both.
「待宵反射衛星斬」"Matsuyoi-Reflecting Satellite Slash" [2]
• 使用者 魂魄妖夢• User: Youmu Konpaku
• 備考 満月の前夜のみ見られる• Notes: Can only be seen on the night before the full moon
• 参考度　★★★★★• Reference Level: ★★★★★
月の光を反射させながら高速で襲いかかるスペルカード。冷たい眩しさに目がくらむ。A Spell Card where she lunges at you at high speed while reflecting the light of the moon. The chilly radiance will have you seeing stars.
長い溜めの後、月光の揺らぐ瞬間をついて斬りかかり、一瞬にして光の弾に囲まれるという恐ろしい無差別攻撃である。After a long charge-up period, she slashes at you right as the moonlight wavers, and you're surrounded by bullets of light in a single instant. A fearsome, indiscriminate attack.
弱点は、強力が故に溜めの時間が長い事だ。溜めている間に移動すればまず当らないのだから、直接妖夢に斬られるような間抜けな事だけは避けたい。Its weak point is that, because it's so powerful, it takes a great deal of time to accumulate. If you move while she's charging up, you won't get hit, so all you have to look out for is getting cut directly by Youmu like an idiot.
しかし、待ち宵の月の光には何が含まれているのだろう。切っ先にちょっと受けただけで無数の刃で大地を覆う。私も月の光を使うスペルカードの研究をしてみたい。What's contained in the Machiyoi's[3] light, though? Just by taking a little bit into the tip of her sword, she blankets the earth with countless blades. I wanna do some research on Spell Cards that use the moon's light too.
月の光のレーザー、ムーンライトレイを……ってそんな名前のスペルカードを聞いた事があるような、って気の所為だろう。A laser of the moon's light, Moonlight Ray... I think I've heard of a spell card with that name before... nah, I'm just imaginin' things.

wOAqmNO.jpg
 
Nah, I moreso have a problem with how we're treating spell card names overall. I'm fine with stuff in quotations going without stuff supporting it, but spell card genres should still be fair game. Never got a chance to discuss it much before infinite speed debates took over the thread :v

Thanks for the scans btw, Reimu and Youmu light manip should stay regardless of where we end up on spell card names.
 
FujiwaraYesMokou said:
Nah, I moreso have a problem with how we're treating spell card names overall. I'm fine with stuff in quotations going without stuff supporting it, but spell card genres should still be fair game. Never got a chance to discuss it much before infinite speed debates took over the thread :v

Thanks for the scans btw, Reimu and Youmu light manip should stay regardless of where we end up on spell card names.
Click to expand...
also, a small detail is that Marisa wouldn't want to get cut by this or Youmu in general so you might wanna add this to her ap justification
 
Wait a ******* second

Why doesn't Yukari have antimatter manipulation on her page when she's literally one of the examples listed on the ability page?

I knew this verse was a bit of a mess but god damn.
 
Ehhh, I generally don't like contacting staff, but sure.

Really wish we had more staff willing to evaluate Touhou besides Promestein
 
I'm gonna make a list of what spell cards have seemingly been accepted (since Prom liked Doge's post of which spell cards are fine to use) and what I'd still like to argue for, just for the sake of convenience.

Fire Manipulation from Taboo "Lævateinn"
Ice Manipulation from Love Sign "Master Spark Frozen"
Gravity Manipulation from Black Magic "Event Horizon"
Light Manipulation from Moon Sign "Moonlight Ray"
Plant Manipulation with Flower Sign "Gorgeous Sweet Flower" and Flower Sign "Selaginella 9".
Light Manipulation from Light Sign "Blossoming Light Orb" and Polar Light "Flower-Adorned Morning Star".
Poison Manipulation with Metal & Water Sign "Mercury Poison".
Illusion Creation from Illusion Existence "Clock Corpse", Illusion Image "Luna Clock", Illusion Phantom "Jack the Ludo Bile", and many, many more spell cards that mention illusions. (she does this directly here the illusion being the fireballs)
Darkness Manipulation from Darkness Sign "Foggy London Dolls".
Light Manipulation from Evil Light "Devilry Light Ray"
Curse Manipulation and Dream Manipulation from Barrier "Curse of Dreams and Reality".
Darkness Manipulation from Barrier "Mesh of Light and Darkness".
Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation from Barrier "Boundary of Life and Death"
Void Manipulation from Border Sign "Boundary of Form and Emptiness".
Physics Manipulation from Border Sign "Boundary of Wave and Particle".
Poison Manipulation from Deadly Toxin "Poisonous Moth's Dance in the Dark".
Possession from "Possessed by Phoenix".
Disease Manipulation from Dog Sign "Rabies Bite".
Resistance to Pain Manipulation from Spirit Sign "State of Freedom from Worldly Thoughts".
Fire Manipulation from "Hellish Heat Geyser" and "Magma Amphibian".
Poison Manipulation from Poison Sign "Japanese Foliage Spider", Poison Rain "Unsanitary Rain", and Poison Spider "Venom Web".
Electricity Manipulation from Thunder Sign “Slow-Speed Mukou”.
Light Manipulation from Light Magic "Star Maelstrom".
Absolute Zero with Freeze Sign "Minus K"
Sound Manipulation from Celestial Star Sword "As the Silent Nirvana" cutting out all sound around her.
(Cirno AZ and Youmu sound manip were accepted by Doge in a later post)

Now for the rejected stuff I think should still apply.

All of these rely on ZUN's statement regarding spell card genres, where he makes it very obvious that the genre describes what kind of attack the spell card is. For this reason, anything that has a very clear concept in it's genre should be fine to use.

Also, I don't think not knowing the specifics of how an attack functions is enough to reject an ability. We still give Remilia fate manipulation despite being given no details on it, after all. The only relevance an ability being vague has to the wiki is in VS debates, which as far as I'm concerned is secondary to the wiki's purpose.

Dream Manipulation from Dream Sign "Evil-Sealing Circle", Dream Sign "Duplex Barrier", and Dream Sign "Fine Line Fantasy"
Light Manipulation from Light Spirit "Divine Spirit Orbs" (Reimu light manip should stay regardless because of the scans Mobi2 posted above)
Illusion Creation with Illusion Sign "Imaginary Flower Yumekazura"
Curse Manipulation from Curse "Curse of Vlad Tepes"
Curse Manipulation from Curse Sign "Shanghai Doll" and Curse Sign "Straw Doll Kamikaze"
Fire Manipulation from Hell Fire Sword "Sudden Phantom Formation Slash of Karmic Wind"
Light Manipulation from Light Sign "Light Flash of the Netherworld"
Illusion Creation from Shiki Brilliance "Princess Tenko -Illusion-" and Illusion God "Descent of Izuna-Gongen"
Fire Manipulation from Great Fire "Flower of Edo"

Keine's purification spell card should stay but be changed from Purification to something like Earth Manipulation, as it's described as world reconstruction.

These can go without issue.

Illusion Creation in base from Spirit Sign "Hakurei Illusion" and Dream Battle "Illusionary Moon"
Illusion Creation from Magic Sign "Illusion Star" and Star Sign "Satellite Illusion"
Illusion Creation from Divine Art "Vampire Illusion"
Life Manipulation from Four Births Sword "Echoes of the Inclemency of All Beings"
Void Manipulation from Voidness Sword "Slash Clearing the Six Senses"
Curse Manipulation from Moth Sign "Hawk Moth's Insect Curse"
Curse Manipulation from Limiting Edict "Curse of Tsuki-no-Iwakasa"
Fire Manipulation from Tragic Fate "Old Lady Ohgane's Fire"
Pain Manipulation from Wound Sign "Pain Flow"
Fear Manipulation and Perception Manipulation from Demonify "Zouhuo Rumo"
Light Manipulation from "Pure Light of the Palm" and "Exceedingly Majestic Pure Light"

That's all. I think the only other things not in the OP are Yukari law and antimatter manip.
 
Not all of them, 'Four Births Sword' and 'Voidness Sword' are a bit to vague to be used I think. In Voidness Sword's case, I don't think it's even referring to void as this wiki defines it, it's more like a state of emotional emptiness (Śūnyatā), backed up by the "Slash Clearing the Six Senses" part.
 
My thoughts, in order:

From the first batch.
  • " Dream Manipulation from Dream Sign "Evil-Sealing Circle", Dream Sign "Duplex Barrier", and Dream Sign "Fine Line Fantasy"" All we have is the name, we don't have any specifics. Disagree.
  • Light and Illusions are fine.
  • Curse Manipulation is such a vague and pointless power. I don't care so long as the page is up, but I think it should be deleted and no one should have it, so.
  • Fire's probably fine.
Remilia's Fate Manipulation is different. At least we've had discussion of it in-verse, rather than simply a name, and at least it being her power is more relevant and notable than a random spellcard anyways.

From the second.
  • If we're gonna be giving these people Illusion Creation we should specify that we don't know the specifics at all, I don't want any of this shit misinterpreted on their pages.
  • Four Births Sword and Voidness Sword are way too vague and most likely stem from Japanese sayings anyways.
  • Curse is whatever, Junko's fine, the fire thing for Hina's fine. I dunno about the Pain one.
 
I think you misunderstand, the last list is the ones I agree on throwing out. I have no problem with them being rejected. The first one is the ones that, to my knowledge, arent controversial at all, and the second list is the ones I also think should be applied.

I don't have an issue with any of this, though. I guess if Hina's fire manipulation is fine then that and Reimu's dream manipulation are the only major changes to the list.
 
Gotcha gotcha. I think it's fine, danmaku looks firey anyways.
 
So the final list of spell card hax is as follows.

Fire Manipulation from Taboo "Lævateinn"
Ice Manipulation from Love Sign "Master Spark Frozen"
Gravity Manipulation from Black Magic "Event Horizon"
Light Manipulation from Moon Sign "Moonlight Ray"
Plant Manipulation with Flower Sign "Gorgeous Sweet Flower" and Flower Sign "Selaginella 9".
Light Manipulation from Light Sign "Blossoming Light Orb" and Polar Light "Flower-Adorned Morning Star".
Poison Manipulation with Metal & Water Sign "Mercury Poison".
Illusion Creation from Illusion Existence "Clock Corpse", Illusion Image "Luna Clock", Illusion Phantom "Jack the Ludo Bile", and many, many more spell cards that mention illusions. (she does this directly here the illusion being the fireballs)
Darkness Manipulation from Darkness Sign "Foggy London Dolls".
Light Manipulation from Evil Light "Devilry Light Ray"
Curse Manipulation and Dream Manipulation from Barrier "Curse of Dreams and Reality".
Darkness Manipulation from Barrier "Mesh of Light and Darkness".
Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation from Barrier "Boundary of Life and Death"
Void Manipulation from Border Sign "Boundary of Form and Emptiness".
Physics Manipulation from Border Sign "Boundary of Wave and Particle".
Poison Manipulation from Deadly Toxin "Poisonous Moth's Dance in the Dark".
Possession from "Possessed by Phoenix".
Disease Manipulation from Dog Sign "Rabies Bite".
Resistance to Pain Manipulation from Spirit Sign "State of Freedom from Worldly Thoughts".
Fire Manipulation from "Hellish Heat Geyser" and "Magma Amphibian".
Poison Manipulation from Poison Sign "Japanese Foliage Spider", Poison Rain "Unsanitary Rain", and Poison Spider "Venom Web".
Electricity Manipulation from Thunder Sign “Slow-Speed Mukou”.
Light Manipulation from Light Magic "Star Maelstrom".
Absolute Zero with Freeze Sign "Minus K"
Sound Manipulation from Celestial Star Sword "As the Silent Nirvana" cutting out all sound around her.
Light Manipulation from Light Spirit "Divine Spirit Orbs" (Reimu light manip should stay regardless because of the scans Mobi2 posted above)
Illusion Creation with Illusion Sign "Imaginary Flower Yumekazura"
Curse Manipulation from Curse "Curse of Vlad Tepes"
Curse Manipulation from Curse Sign "Shanghai Doll" and Curse Sign "Straw Doll Kamikaze"
Fire Manipulation from Hell Fire Sword "Sudden Phantom Formation Slash of Karmic Wind"
Light Manipulation from Light Sign "Light Flash of the Netherworld"
Illusion Creation from Shiki Brilliance "Princess Tenko -Illusion-" and Illusion God "Descent of Izuna-Gongen"
Fire Manipulation from Great Fire "Flower of Edo"
Fire Manipulation from Tragic Fate "Old Lady Ohgane's Fire"
Light Manipulation from "Pure Light of the Palm" and "Exceedingly Majestic Pure Light"

Still a lot more than I expected, huh. What do you think about the Palanquin Ship feat, by the way? I can do a recap if the walls of text are too much :v
 
Last edited:
FujiwaraYesMokou said:
So the final list of spell card hax is as follows.

Fire Manipulation from Taboo "Lævateinn"
Ice Manipulation from Love Sign "Master Spark Frozen"
Gravity Manipulation from Black Magic "Event Horizon"
Light Manipulation from Moon Sign "Moonlight Ray"
Plant Manipulation with Flower Sign "Gorgeous Sweet Flower" and Flower Sign "Selaginella 9".
Light Manipulation from Light Sign "Blossoming Light Orb" and Polar Light "Flower-Adorned Morning Star".
Poison Manipulation with Metal & Water Sign "Mercury Poison".
Illusion Creation from Illusion Existence "Clock Corpse", Illusion Image "Luna Clock", Illusion Phantom "Jack the Ludo Bile", and many, many more spell cards that mention illusions. (she does this directly here the illusion being the fireballs)
Darkness Manipulation from Darkness Sign "Foggy London Dolls".
Light Manipulation from Evil Light "Devilry Light Ray"
Curse Manipulation and Dream Manipulation from Barrier "Curse of Dreams and Reality".
Darkness Manipulation from Barrier "Mesh of Light and Darkness".
Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation from Barrier "Boundary of Life and Death"
Void Manipulation from Border Sign "Boundary of Form and Emptiness".
Physics Manipulation from Border Sign "Boundary of Wave and Particle".
Poison Manipulation from Deadly Toxin "Poisonous Moth's Dance in the Dark".
Possession from "Possessed by Phoenix".
Disease Manipulation from Dog Sign "Rabies Bite".
Resistance to Pain Manipulation from Spirit Sign "State of Freedom from Worldly Thoughts".
Fire Manipulation from "Hellish Heat Geyser" and "Magma Amphibian".
Poison Manipulation from Poison Sign "Japanese Foliage Spider", Poison Rain "Unsanitary Rain", and Poison Spider "Venom Web".
Electricity Manipulation from Thunder Sign “Slow-Speed Mukou”.
Light Manipulation from Light Magic "Star Maelstrom".
Absolute Zero with Freeze Sign "Minus K"
Sound Manipulation from Celestial Star Sword "As the Silent Nirvana" cutting out all sound around her.
Light Manipulation from Light Spirit "Divine Spirit Orbs" (Reimu light manip should stay regardless because of the scans Mobi2 posted above)
Illusion Creation with Illusion Sign "Imaginary Flower Yumekazura"
Curse Manipulation from Curse "Curse of Vlad Tepes"
Curse Manipulation from Curse Sign "Shanghai Doll" and Curse Sign "Straw Doll Kamikaze"
Fire Manipulation from Hell Fire Sword "Sudden Phantom Formation Slash of Karmic Wind"
Light Manipulation from Light Sign "Light Flash of the Netherworld"
Illusion Creation from Shiki Brilliance "Princess Tenko -Illusion-" and Illusion God "Descent of Izuna-Gongen"
Fire Manipulation from Great Fire "Flower of Edo"
Fire Manipulation from Tragic Fate "Old Lady Ohgane's Fire"
Light Manipulation from "Pure Light of the Palm" and "Exceedingly Majestic Pure Light"

Still a lot more than I expected, huh. What do you think about the Palanquin Ship feat, by the way? I can do a recap if the walls of text are too much :v
Click to expand...
You're lumping in the spell cards with descriptions (such as "Hellish Heat Geyser" and "Magma Amphibian") besides the spell cards without descriptions (such as Barrier "Boundary of Life and Death" or Metal & Water Sign "Mercury Poison"), or that only have vague spell card comments that don't describe what the spell card actually does (such as Border Sign "Boundary of Form and Emptiness"). In the latter case, as Prom would say, "all we have is the name, we don't have any specifics", and even though we might assume these names having something to do with the characters' more "innate" or "specialized" abilities, we still don't know their exact mechanics.

I don't think we should be doing any "lumping", especially since some of these names ("Boundary of Form and Emptiness" again being an example) may have significantly different meanings than what is assigned to them, given the context of what characters they come from. For example, "emptiness" could just as easily mean a more vague "formlessness" than simply "the void".

Promestein said:
Gotcha gotcha. I think it's fine, danmaku looks firey anyways.
Click to expand...
What is your opinion on all the "infinite speed Palanquin ship" argumentation that had been going on throughout the thread? I've already gave several takes on the issue, really starting with this, but what is your view?

Reposting here for context:
Malomtek said:
In the first fifteen seconds of that linked video, we see Marisa initially moving fast over some road on the ground, then slowing down as the road gets further and further obscured by cloud cover. It is the same case when Marisa finally catches up to the ship, the only difference being that the deacceleration occurs after nine seconds.

She, and the ship by extension, are clearly moving at a finite speed, otherwise that road on the ground would barely even be blur. That is, unless you want me to believe that even that portion of the road somehow had infinite length.

There's also the fact that neither of them seem to be in Makai in general yet, let alone one of its corners. Makai/Hokkai consistently looks completely differently from the realm with the road in it.

"But what about infinite Makai-"

Doesn't matter. We see Marisa and the ship visibly moving at finite speeds, and that's what counts.
Click to expand...
There's also the fact that this really proves the finite size of Makai, the point of the absurdity of the notion that the random UFO enemies Marisa encountered along the way all have infinite speed too, etc.
 
Last edited:
Malomtek said:
What is your opinion on all the "infinite speed Palanquin ship" argumentation that had been going on throughout the thread? I've already gave several takes on the issue, really starting with this, but what is your view?

Reposting here for context:
Click to expand...
Regardless of our opposing opinions, you really should have posted both sides of the argument. Leaving out all of the supporting evidence and counterarguments, can make it seem as though you're intending to manipulate the information that was presented throughout.

Nevertheless, I think a general summary of both arguments should be posted and then left up to Prom to decide. That seems like a fair way to wrap up both sides of the discussion.
 
Yeah sure. Show me.
 
wasn't the boundary all Yukari's ability who manipulate boundaries which are considered concepts
you can already guess it from there on what's she's doing
manipulating life and death by tampering with their boundary
Same with form and emptiness. manipulating the boundary of something with form and without which is emptiness
 
In that case I'll post a summary :v

The feat itself is from UFO, where the protagonists are stated to catch up to the Palanquin Ship (and the early stages are the process of them catching up to it). Later on, Murasa states the ship is flying to Hokkai, stated to be at the edge of Makai, which is referred to as infinite in the same scene. So the protagonists catch up to a ship that's flying to the edge of an infinite space in a finite period of time, a pretty blatant infinite speed feat.

The counterpoints:
-The ship could've been slowed down or stopped when the protagonists caught up to it.
-If the characters are genuinely infinite speed by themselves, why did they need the ship at all?
-'Flying to the edge of an infinite space' is an illogical feat that should not be used, as an infinite space cannot have an edge.
-The characters appear to be visually moving at finite speeds, debunking the statement about Makai's size and any implication of infinite speed.

The counter-counterpoints:
-The ship is stated to be on autopilot so it wasn't manually slowed down, and is directly compared to a bullet train, which travels at full speed in a straight line with minimal interference from the driver in order to reach it's destination.
-The border of Makai is blocked off by a miasma that nobody can cross normally, so stowing away on the ship was necessary to get to Makai in the first place.
-This would require a more general revision of how infinite speed feats are treated, though the argument itself assumes fiction must adhere to real world logic for feats to be valid.
-lmao

As was already addressed in the OP, note that 'corner' here isn't referring to a remote or secretive place, since AFAIK the original Japanese text can't be translated as such. So it's only referring to 'corner' as in the edge of an object.

Can't guarantee this is everything but it should give a good idea of where we are currently.
 
I don't think something Infinite can really have an edge.

"This would require a more general revision of how infinite speed feats are treated, though the argument itself assumes fiction must adhere to real world logic for feats to be valid."

I do think we should be stricter about this.
 
This would kinda null the vast majority of infinite speed feats then, wouldn't it? Since crossing an infinite space would logically also require you to reach the edge of it, and our current standards pretty explicitly allow that.

In that case, would I have permission to make a staff thread on the issue? It seems like a pretty significant change.

Also wondering why you accepted the corridor feat when that has the same issue :v
 
Either way I don't think this feat should be rejected on the basis of a future revision that may or may not get accepted. It's fine under the current standards, and that's what matters IMO. We can simply change the speed ratings should the standards change.
 
OverlordDonnelly said:
Regardless of our opposing opinions, you really should have posted both sides of the argument. Leaving out all of the supporting evidence and counterarguments, can make it seem as though you're intending to manipulate the information that was presented throughout.
Click to expand...
I am simply providing my own side of the argument. I expected others to provide their own side of the arguments, as they already did. There is no problem here.

Promestein said:
Do as you will.
Click to expand...
I don't think we should "jump the gun" on this and just allow this to be posted as a justification for infinite 2hu speed. I'm pretty sure it's not even that "fine" under our current standards. I've asked Antvasima and DarkDragonMedeus about this kind of thing in private, and here's what they had to say:

Here's my question:

"If a realm or dimension is stated by character dialogue to be infinite, yet a person or vehicle traveled to its "edge" or "corner" at what is visibly finite speed, would VSBW still consider the realm to be infinite, or no?

In my view, you can't cross an "infinite" realm with visibly finite speed, so logic indicates then that the realm is not actually "infinite" in size."

Here were their responses:
Antvasima said:
I am not sure. It may be a plot hole inconsistency in the storytelling. What do you think Medeus?
Click to expand...
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Well, Infinite in general can often be a hyperbole unless there's other details to suggest it isn't hyperbolic. But it's a case by case scenerio.
Click to expand...
 
FujiwaraYesMokou said:
This would kinda null the vast majority of infinite speed feats then, wouldn't it? Since crossing an infinite space would logically also require you to reach the edge of it, and our current standards pretty explicitly allow that.

In that case, would I have permission to make a staff thread on the issue? It seems like a pretty significant change.

Also wondering why you accepted the corridor feat when that has the same issue :v
Click to expand...
I mean, if I'm being honest, a lot of them shouldn't have had it in the first place. Writers don't really care what actual infinity is. Our problem is assuming that these authors somehow think like us on this and that these spaces must be infinite. However, when there's a blatant mention of an edge/end to this supposedly infinite place, that shit really should be scrutinized, as it might as well be the author themselves telling us not to take the infinite statement seriously, and its just there as a word for saying something is super big or whatever.

For lightspeed feats involving light, we always check to make sure said light acted like actual light before we apply it. Something similar should be done with infinity, I believe. We know what infinity is supposed to be, and its pretty explicit that its supposed to be without end or beginning. It having an actual beginning/end really muddys the waters, in my opinion. Then again, who knows what other people, mainly the staff will see it as.
 
Derpmaster9000 said:
I mean, if I'm being honest, a lot of them shouldn't have had it in the first place. Writers don't really care what actual infinity is. Our problem is assuming that these authors somehow think like us on this and that these spaces must be infinite. However, when there's a blatant mention of an edge/end to this supposedly infinite place, that shit really should be scrutinized, as it might as well be the author themselves telling us not to take the infinite statement seriously, and its just there as a word for saying something is super big or whatever.

For lightspeed feats involving light, we always check to make sure said light acted like actual light before we apply it. Something similar should be done with infinity, I believe. We know what infinity is supposed to be, and its pretty explicit that its supposed to be without end or beginning. It having an actual beginning/end really muddys the waters, in my opinion. Then again, who knows what other people, mainly the staff will see it as.
Click to expand...
This place (and several others) already accepts the concept of differing "levels" to infinity. From there, an infinite space having a distinct "edge" is not a huge leap in logic.

This doesn't really apply to the Makai stuff either way, so eh.
 
Well,

While the staff thread is going on and we're waiting on an answer about what can be used for infinite speed, we should probably try to cover everything else in the OP.

Touhou causing sitewide revisions is kinda based ngl
 
Derpmaster9000 said:
as it might as well be the author themselves telling us not to take the infinite statement seriously, and its just there as a word for saying something is super big or whatever.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, even in interviews when talking about locations, ZUN has used the word infinite to describe the size of of said location. So, statements within the series are supported by him essentially reaffirming what he wrote.

As for your other grievances with infinite speed, in order to even have a rating for infinite speed in the first place, I think we have to give them some leeway. Otherwise only like 2 or 3 series will probably even qualify under our standards.

But I agree, we should leave this discussion to the staff thread.
 
FujiwaraYesMokou said:
Well,

While the staff thread is going on and we're waiting on an answer about what can be used for infinite speed, we should probably try to cover everything else in the OP.

Touhou causing sitewide revisions is kinda based ngl
Click to expand...
Do you have a link to the staff thread?
 
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