Hunter x Hunter Overhaul (Scaling)

[Hk1488]

Why are you speaking like everyone is agreeing with you when it's the polar opposite? What kind of mentality you got? "Force my argument through until it gets accepted"? Please leave the CRT, you are derailing it HARD with these bickering that get in the way of knowledgeable discussions.

I am really losing my temper here, I will inform about your derailing to moderators if you just continue to complain instead of providing evidence or a reasonable argument...

I am suggesting for you to not suggest an eyeball and I fail to provide evidence? Wth

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Doesn't mean sht. Being that far off doesn't mean that's the time he took. Why the hell would he be as fast as he estimates meruem to be? Meruem literally absorbed 6/7 of them. For them to be 1/3 of his speed makes no sense. Not only that but you are simply ASSMUMING he took 15 minutes

Meruem absorbing 6/7th of two royal guards and getting over 600x stronger than before seems to make sense to you then?

No, it's clearly not linear, and flight speed doesn't scale to the gap in combat speed (which isn't 3x either), the gap between Netero and Meruem is 3x.

 

[Hk1488]

Meruem absorbing 6/7th of two royal guards and getting over 600x stronger than before seems to make sense to you then?

No, it's clearly not linear, and flight speed doesn't scale to the gap in combat speed (which isn't 3x either), the gap between Netero and Meruem is 3x.

You still fail to provide evidence for your statement tho.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I am suggesting for you to not suggest an eyeball and I fail to provide evidence? Wth

It's an interpretation of the visuals. Common Sense. Literally half a billion of our crater calcs uses 0.28 as the average, including ones from HxH and Naruto.

Just because you are not knowledgeable on what's accepted on the Wiki does not mean I have to play by what YOU think is reasonable. In fact, I couldn't care less about that in particular. So if your complain is about something that's already accepted in the Wiki guidelines, keep quiet, or make a CRT.

In each case, your place of voice is NOT here, leave.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

You still fail to provide evidence for your statement tho.

Again, interpretation.
Youpi is academically inept,
Youpi has never gone to said place,
Youpi's estimation were off to Meruem even witnessing his speed
Youpi stated they could get at the palace in 15 minutes using inclusive collective (inclusive collective on the capability of reaching said destination in the desired timeframe).

You waste our time greatly.

 

[Hk1488]

It's an interpretation of the visuals. Common Sense. Literally half a billion of our crater calcs uses 0.28 as the average, including ones from HxH and Naruto.

Just because you are not knowledgeable on what's accepted on the Wiki does not mean I have to play by what YOU think is reasonable. In fact, I couldn't care less about that in particular. So if your complain is about something that's already accepted in the Wiki guidelines, keep quiet, or make a CRT.

In each case, your place of voice is NOT here, leave.

This only appears so since the size is extremely deflated in many panels to fit in tho and you know it. The argument of using an average seems ok normally but we can actually calculate a size. Tho I agree the current size is way too low

 

[Hk1488]

Again, interpretation.
Youpi is academically inept,
Youpi has never gone to said place,
Youpi's estimation were off to Meruem even witnessing his speed
Youpi stated they could get at the palace in 15 minutes using inclusive collective (inclusive collective on the capability of reaching said destination in the desired timeframe).

You waste our time greatly.

I don't think youpi is academically inept and I don't know where you got that from. Just cause he is a big guy? Anyway he did have meruem as direct reference. Even an idiot should be able to compare speed off another person to his own right?
Also why am I wasting time? Have you not realized that we two are the only people right now talking? What persons time am I wasting. I am certainly not preventing you from anything.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

If it's not going to bother too much, could you call Dragon again to evaluate this little correction? His input on an end would be vital

Hunter x Hunter: Craters Updated

vsbattles.fandom.com

Bumping this.

After we are settled on an end for now (as most seem to be starting to get uninterested in the CRT), I can propose a repaired AP scaling, and we can move on to Lifting Strength.

 

[Hk1488]

Bumping this.

After we are settled on an end for now (as most seem to be starting to get uninterested in the CRT), I can propose a repaired AP scaling, and we can move on to Lifting Strength.

Do we really not have a single way to calculate post rose speed?

 

[Hk1488]

I still think you should at the very least calc the height of the crater. More accurate results than assuming

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I still think you should at the very least calc the height of the crater. More accurate results than assuming

It's extremely hard if a proper angle is not present. Because it's curved, you can never scale the bottom to the sides, because there's always a radius-distance between them.

The interpretation of the crater as an incomplete sphere is still consistently accurate (and present in a lot of our calculations), as that's basically what a crater is, a spherical cap.

 

[Hk1488]

I mean we do have some great shots with Killua standing at the end and kncule running inside. Angsizing might work too

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Both cannot be used for the exact same reason, and both would have to account for radius distance.

 

[Hk1488]

Yeah and we know the radius and distance so why should it not work. We also have youpi standing in the center as reference don't we? I mean currently it's too low but 1/3 is probably too high too. It may look like 1/4 of a sphere but the reason it does cause the radius is severely deflated in those pictures

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Yeah and we know the radius and distance so why should it not work.

Because it's not possible calculate the height based on the radius. (It is, but it's using the average ratio, which I already did)

We also have youpi standing in the center as reference don't we? I mean currently it's too low but 1/3 is probably too high too. It may look like 1/4 of a sphere but the reason it does cause the radius is severely deflated in those pictures

You have a problem with the result

 

[Hk1488]

Because it's not possible calculate the height based on the radius. (It is, but it's using the average ratio, which I already did)

You have a problem with the result

No no I mean taking distance into account and calcing height of comparing to someone else

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Siiiigh.... Sure. Let me see...


The crater is 91.6364798638m, meaning the radius is 45.8182399319m. Youpi was at the center of it, Killua was at the edge, that's the distance between the two.

Panel: 1105px

Height: 947px

2atan(tan(70/2)*(947/1105)) =

61.934874051628°

Distance: 45.8182399319m

Now we use the angsize calculator.

Height: 54.66m

Yeah, we better stick to the 1/3rd to 1/4th scaling, huh?

 

[Hk1488]

Siiiigh.... Sure. Let me see...


The crater is 91.6364798638m, meaning the radius is 45.8182399319m. Youpi was at the center of it, Killua was at the edge, that's the distance between the two.

Panel: 1105px

Height: 947px

2atan(tan(70/2)*(947/1105)) =

61.934874051628°

Distance: 45.8182399319m

Now we use the angsize calculator.

Height: 54.66m

Yeah, we better stick to the 1/3rd to 1/4th scaling, huh?

That's straight up incorrect tho. The crater is not completely 45 meters away. Most of it is much closer. This way of scaling treats it like as if it's a straight wall from that distance. We can see from killuas height in comparison that this would just simply make no sense thus way. Can you find a better panel. Preferably where someone is in the center of the crater

 

[GodlyCharmander]

That's straight up incorrect tho. The crater is not completely 45 meters away. Most of it is much closer.

The crater's edge has to be 45 meters away from the center, as that's what the radius represent.

This way of scaling treats it like as if it's a straight wall from that distance.

Thus, why you suggesting this method of scaling is absolutely asinine, it obviously doesn't work.

We can see from killuas height in comparison that this would just simply make no sense thus way.

Killua's height is inconsistent, we already concluded that in the whole Meruem height debate.

Can you find a better panel.

You suggested it, bro. Stop bothering me if you don't have the slightest idea on how to calculate it yourself.

Preferably where someone is in the center of the crater

Youpi was literally in the center of the crater, you're a blatant liar.

 

[Hk1488]

The crater's edge has to be 45 meters away from the center, as that's what the radius represent.

Thus, why you suggesting this method of scaling is absolutely asinine, it obviously doesn't work.

Killua's height is inconsistent, we already concluded that in the whole Meruem height debate.

You suggested it, bro. Stop bothering me if you don't have the slightest idea on how to calculate it yourself.

Youpi was literally in the center of the crater, you're a blatant liar.

I think you are misunderstanding. 1. Killuas height is inconsistent. But not THAT inconsistent. You know how tall he'd be in that case? I suggested someone in the center so we can scale the size of the person in the center. So youpi in comparison to crater height. The hsot with kncule running down would probably be ok too sinew it's angle is better for comparison. You are just choosing whatever method you can use to get wanked results.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

You are just choosing whatever method you can use to get wanked results.

I mean we do have some great shots with Killua standing at the end and kncule running inside. Angsizing might work too

I legitimately am done with your shit. I do not know if there's any way to block someone here, but if so, consider it done.

 

[Hk1488]

I legitimately am done with your shit. I do not know if there's any way to block someone here, but if so, consider it done.

You are simply delusional. You didn't even take killua into account in your calc. We have much better shots to use that you simply ignore for a refutable calc. The height of the crater doesn't exceed even 10 meters and you know that

 

[Hk1488]

Also you were the one suggesting a change in the first place. Eyeballing simply doesn't work there and the method you used doesn't work as it doesn't take killua into account. We have a side view of kncule running down so the distance would be the same. We do have a direct comparison and YOU yourself showed the panel. You can work with that can you? You used the killua panel since you thought I couldn't simply refute that one while you would get high results. We literaly have a direct size comparison

 

[Chariot190]

Hk if you aren't actually gonna making an attempt, kindly stop talking an especially stop trying to ******* undermine people's views with talk like "you're just trying to wank" and shit because you're talking out your ass, you've done literally nothing of value.
I went through the effort of reading the whole ******* arc and there is ONLY ONE shot in the whole of the arc that's even close to the depth you want.

Most are like triple what you're implying.



Like here's 3 more shots, even the last one with Knuckle, the shortest of the 3, is still quite a bit deep angsizing off Youpi.
The depth isn't the most consistent thing in the world, but it sure as hell is hovering on the deeper end of things.

 

[Hk1488]

Hk if you aren't actually gonna making an attempt, kindly stop talking an especially stop trying to ******* undermine people's views with talk like "you're just trying to wank" and shit because you're talking out your ass, you've done literally nothing of value.
I went through the effort of reading the whole ******* arc and there is ONLY ONE shot in the whole of the arc that's even close to the depth you want.

Most are like triple what you're implying.



Like here's 3 more shots, even the last one with Knuckle, the shortest of the 3, is still quite a bit deep angsizing off Youpi.
The depth isn't the most consistent thing in the world, but it sure as hell is hovering on the deeper end of things.

Literally all of those shots would prove my poimt of it not being 30 meters wth you on about. Are you actually blind?

 

[Chariot190]

Second one is actually around 30m, the other two aren't, but you know what they are? Way the **** above just 5-10m, which is what you've been pushing for.

But sure, go ahead and calc them, you keep making claims of how deep they are, if that's the case, go ahead and calc the depth, you should be at least capable of something as simple as that if you're gonna partake in a debate over calculating the depth of them, I mean, that's only common sense right?

 

[Hk1488]

S

Second one is actually around 30m, the other two aren't, but you know what they are? Way the **** above just 5-10m, which is what you've been pushing for.

But sure, go ahead and calc them, you keep making claims of how deep they are, if that's the case, go ahead and calc the depth, you should be at least capable of something as simple as that if you're gonna partake in a debate over calculating the depth of them, I mean, that's only common sense right?

Second one 30 meters? Comparing knuckle to the height even without taking into account he is further away on average would still not get 30 meters (unless he is 3 meters tall lol) there is no way you are serious. Kncukles height is roughly 1/10 of that of the crater. He is btw on the end of the crater. So that would still give higher results than it actually is.

 

[Chariot190]

Lad, if we calced it that way, the depth would be closer to like, ******* 60m, but you should know that right?

Kncukles height is roughly 1/10 of that of the crater

Ok so closer to 20m then going by that assumption, nearly double the 10m depth.

 

[Hk1488]

Lad, if we calced it that way, the depth would be closer to like, ******* 60m, but you should know that right?



Ok so closer to 20m then going by that assumption, nearly double the 10m depth.

No actually far below 20 meters since he is at the very end of the crater. Angsizing the crater itself doesn't work since the radius is often inconsistent in size. Angsizing the frames with both knuckle and youpi would give a distance of less than 20 meters. And knuckle is not 2 meters

 

[Chariot190]

"it's roughly 10x knuckle's height" - you.

Yeah dude because Knuckle is only 1m tall am I right? What is Knuckle the height of a small child now? A literal toddler?
He's not 2m but he's sure as hell damn close, which is why I said "nearly", and "closer", or is 18m deep not closer to 20 than it is to 10?

And the shot where he's overlooking Youpi I got out to be about 17.5m, and that's with extremely basic angsizing from a near aerial view, basic shit. Again, way above 10m, despite being one of the lower end shots (And that's with low balling Youpi's height).

And who said I was angsizing using the radius diameter? Im angsizing via the characters themselves in this instance. I haven't even explained how I got anything yet so how could you say I did that if you don't even know?

This is what everyone means, stop ******* acting like you know how do to do any of this, unless you do, in which case, whip out MS Paint or whatever you have and start calcing because you're not helping, at all.

 

[Hk1488]

"it's roughly 10x knuckle's height" - you.

Yeah dude because Knuckle is only 1m tall am I right? What is Knuckle the height of a small child now? A literal toddler?
He's not 2m but he's sure as hell damn close, which is why I said "nearly", and "closer", or is 18m deep not closer to 20 than it is to 10?

And the shot where he's overlooking Youpi I got out to be about 17.5m, and that's with extremely basic angsizing from a near aerial view, basic shit. Again, way above 10m, despite being one of the lower end shots (And that's with low balling Youpi's height).

And who said I was angsizing using the radius diameter? Im angsizing via the characters themselves in this instance. I haven't even explained how I got anything yet so how could you say I did that if you don't even know?

This is what everyone means, stop ******* acting like you know how do to do any of this, unless you do, in which case, whip out MS Pain or whatever you have and start calcing because you're not helping, at all.

Bro show me the method you used cause that sure as hell isn't bigger than the previous shot which as we established is with wank only 18 meters. Which btw would be 1/5 rather than 1/3 as charmanter suggested.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

"it's roughly 10x knuckle's height" - you.

I am really sick of him, it seems like he joined recently, so the thought of him being a troll naturally comes to mind. I am very hesitant, but we should probably warn him that getting into the progression of a thread without any sufficient reasoning is a punishable offense.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

18m would be 40530,031575854m³

A sphere would be 402906,07497329m³,

That's 1/9th, not 1/5th.

 

[Hk1488]

18m would be 40530,031575854m³

A sphere would be 402906,07497329m³,

That's 1/9th, not 1/5th.

I already said this but keep in mind thats without taking into account how much closer the stone we are comparimg it to is.

I am really sick of him, it seems like he joined recently, so the thought of him being a troll naturally comes to mind. I am very hesitant, but we should probably warn him that getting into the progression of a thread without any sufficient reasoning is a punishable offense.

My reasoning is that the change you suggested was a mere eyeball and baseless

 

[Chariot190]

which as we established is with wank only 18 meters.

You're only one person dude, you aren't "we", 18m is on the lower end of things.

Dude I ain't Charmander, what he said isn't what I said, you're talking with me, leave him out of this, I agreed it was above 10m, because it is, I said then we should take a look at the other shots and see if we can get a value, I never said flatout "yeah let's use 1/3", I'd probably go with 1/4th if nothing could be salvaged from other shots, but that isn't the case. We can very well calc the depth in many shots, the issue is picking which one to use or what's most consistent in regards to how the hole is portrayed. (Honestly, I'd say we should check the anime in this case, the anime tends to have the sizes of things remain more consistent between shots opposed to the manga were it could increase and decrease by a whole magnitude).

But the formula I used? The Basic angsizing formula? This formula?

Object in pixels

Screen height in px

Object size in value

Object Height*Panel Height/(Object in Px*2*tan(70deg/2)) =

The most basic of things? Do you really not know how to do this? I just took Youpi and angsized how deep he was into the crater, got like 17-18m, using a lower end height for him. Could be higher, but again that's ONE shot, could get higher depending on the panel.

 

[Hk1488]

You're only one person dude, you aren't "we", 18m is on the lower end of things.

Dude I ain't Charmander, what he said isn't what I said, you're talking with me, leave him out of this, I agreed it was above 10m, because it is, I said then we should take a look at the other shots and see if we can get a value, I never said flatout "yeah let's use 1/3", I'd probably go with 1/4th if nothing could be salvaged from other shots, but that isn't the case. We can very well calc the depth in many shots, the issue is picking which one to use or what's most consistent in regards to how the hole is portrayed. (Honestly, I'd say we should check the anime in this case, the anime tends to have the sizes of things remain more consistent between shots opposed to the manga were it could increase and decrease by a whole magnitude).

But the formula I used? The Basic angsizing formula? This formula?

Object in pixels

Screen height in px

Object size in value

Object Height*Panel Height/(Object in Px*2*tan(70deg/2)) =

The most basic of things? Do you really not know how to do this? I just took Youpi and angsized how deep he was into the crater, got like 17-18m, using a lower end height for him. Could be higher, but again that's ONE shot, could get higher depending on the panel.

I know the angsizing formula dude. I don't think you can effectively use it in that frame. Perspective wise

 

[GodlyCharmander]

(Honestly, I'd say we should check the anime in this case, the anime tends to have the sizes of things remain more consistent between shots opposed to the manga were it could increase and decrease by a whole magnitude)

It's very iffy, as Uvogin's crater is about 5 times larger in the 2011 adaptation than in the Manga

 

[Chariot190]

It's very iffy, as Uvogin's crater is about 5 times larger in the 2011 adaptation than in the Manga

Yeah, but I mean in this particular instance, if the Youpi crater in the anime is portrayed like the same as it is in the manga, but it then proceeds to keep that size through the whole arc, instead of being inconsistent and changing every other panel to varying degrees. It'd probably be best to look at it from there, because Togashi can't keep taht shit consistent if his life depended on it. Though if the Youpi feat in the anime ends up being demonstrably larger/smaller, that would be an issue making it so we can't use it.

I know the angsizing formula dude. I don't think you can effectively use it in that frame. Perspective wise

We literally can, just use a different degrees.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@Hk1488
Please refrain from spamming and disrupting the thread any further. If you have important points to make or something you feel the need to respond to, then do so in a concise manner and preferably limit yourself to only one post.
I think Charmander has been exceedingly patient with you, and tried his best to respond to all of your points, but this debate is becoming really disruptive at this point. It would not be an exaggeration to say that you have singlehandedly extended this CRT by at least 2 pages.
You may have reservations about the values, but unless you can actually bring forth legitimate proof for why the calculations are incorrect mathematically or conceptually, then you are just wasting everyone's time.
I don't want to sound mean, but as a moderator I cannot overlook this after numerous pages of back and forth.
Consider this a warning.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Uhhh, actually, even using Damage's own height, I got (1/3)×π×1151,71532069cm^2(3×4581,82399319cm - 1151,71532069cm) = 17493399067,49cm³, which results in 107 Kilotons, not 87 Kt.

Did they use a different shape to scale the crater, or?...