Fairy Tail: X791 Upgrade or Downgrade

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Ok, this is something I have been in denial of for a long time due to my pre-conceived notions of the scaling for X791, but I've finally had to admit to myself that I have been completely wrong which believe me is extremely annoying as this means I have to admit that AnonymousBlank was right yet again, which I am frankly getting sick of

In the Grand Magic Games, Minerva is flat out stated to be the greatest Mage in Sabertooth, this makes her stronger than Orga, who is 7-A (152.9 Megatons) via being the strongest after she left, this means that Minerva in X791 would be 7-A (152.9 Megatons), this is supported by how with a casual hand wave of magic, she was able to easily block and negate Natsu's Lightning Fire Dragon's Firing Hammer, making her far stronger than him, now this scales to a decent deal of characters, it means that Base Erza, Kagura, Mira, Jiemma, Kyoka, and Seilah are all 7-A (152.9 Megatons). I have been opposed this for so long due to my preconceived notion that Base Natsu and Base Erza were comparable in X791, but that just flat out isn't supported, Base Natsu is never shown fighting characters comparable to Base Erza, and he is also never stated to be comparable to her, I once again just have to accept that Base and even Lightning Fire Dragon Mode Natsu isn't nearly as strong as even Base Erza, the Natsu stan within me hurts, but this is just how it is based on legitimate feats

Human Jiemma should also scale above Minerva and Orga, during his time as the Guild Master of Sabertooth, the rankings of the Guild were based on strength, and when Sting managed to surpass and defeat Human Jiemma in a moment of rage, it was said that because he surpassed Human Jiemma, he should now be the Guild Master, implying that Human Jiemma was mainly the Guild Master because he was the strongest, this is supported by Base Natsu being unable to damage him at all

So the scale goes like this...

Tartaros Arc Sting and Rogue<Orga<Minerva, Kagura, Base Erza, Satan Soul Mira, Base Kyoka, and Base Seilah<Human Jiemma and Satan Soul Sitri Mira<Etherious Form Seilah<Etherious Form Kyoka<Strongest Armors Erza<Jura and Jellal<Laxus<Atlas Flame, Motherglare, Hell Fire Dragon Mode Natsu, and White Shadow Dragon Mode Future Rogue<Base Mard Geer, Devil Slayer Mark Gray, Enhanced Emotions Base Natsu, and Demon Jiemma

Now alternatively, we may just say that Orga being above Tartaros Arc Sting and Rogue is BS and that downgrade a bunch of the 7-A's, but the scaling above is accurate and is what the story follows

So either we upgrade everyone above to 7-A or downgrade a bunch of characters from 7-A, pick your poison

EDIT: At this point, the main point of discussion is whether or not Orga scales above Tartaros Sting and Rogue, so try to focus on that

 

[Damage3245]

So either we upgrade everyone above to 7-A or downgrade a bunch of characters from 7-A, pick your poison

What would they end up as, if the latter option was selected?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

What would they end up as, if the latter option was selected?

They would just go back to 7-B or 7-B+

 

[CloverDragon03]

I’m definitely more in favor of downgrading Orga and anyone who scales to him

 

[CloverDragon03]

To add on, Orga’s statement came long before Sting and Rogue showed up in Tartaros, so in hindsight, the statement wasn’t very reliable for scaling him above them to begin with.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

To add on, Orga’s statement came long before Sting and Rogue showed up in Tartaros, so in hindsight, the statement wasn’t very reliable for scaling him above them to begin with.

Well it wasn't long before, it was a few days before the events of the Tartaros Arc

 

[BlackeJan]

Yeah it’s best to just downgrade to 7-B but what supports them for 7-B+ and why downgrade to that tier?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yeah it’s best to just downgrade to 7-B but what supports them for 7-B+ and why downgrade to that tier?

Well I only mean a few characters would be 7-B+, I only mean the characters like Motherglare, Atlas Flame, Hell Fire Dragon Mode Natsu, and White Shadow Dragon Mode Future Rogue

They all scale above Initial Iron Shadow Dragon Mode Gajeel, who is 7-B+

 

[CloverDragon03]

Well it wasn't long before, it was a few days before the events of the Tartaros Arc

The statements itself though was several chapters before Sting and Rogue showed up. In my opinion, that makes it less reliable to use to scale Orga above Tartaros arc Sting and Rogue.

 

[TheForgottenKing]

Well this would scarp the match I just made with Jellal vs Seighart and any other Rave VS FT matches

but I agree with Dragongamer he makes the most sense to me

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

The statements itself though was several chapters before Sting and Rogue showed up. In my opinion, that makes it less reliable to use to scale Orga above Tartaros arc Sting and Rogue.

I can agree to that, I am fine with either option given in the OP tho

 

[AnonymousBlank]

which believe me is extremely annoying as this means I have to admit that AnonymousBlank was right yet again, which I am frankly getting sick of

I LOVE this thread. Haven’t read the rest of the OP yet but I agree since Mitch even says it’s my stance and I trust him enough to not lie about what I said.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I LOVE thread. Haven’t read the rest of the OP yet but I agree since Mitch even says it’s my stance.

I just had to acknowledge you were right, Minerva is above Orga, and if she is, she either becomes 7-A, or we nuke Orga being above Tartaros Arc Sting and Rogue

 

[KingTempest]

What's the issue with Minerva scaling?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Yeah. As the one who is clearly the most intelligent on FT scaling what Gamer said is what I been saying since the 7-A Orga thread. Gamer FRA.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

What's the issue with Minerva scaling?

There isn’t really an issue, it’s just that she is > Orga which means everyone would scale to 7-A. This is wrong though since the Orga statement shows up before Sting and Rogue in Tartaros and when Minerva had left so he doesn’t scale to the 7-A stuff and thus Minerva doesn’t either.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

There isn’t really an issue, it’s just that she is > Orga which means everyone would scale to 7-A. This is wrong though since the Orga statement shows up before Sting and Rogue in Tartaros and when Minerva had left so he doesn’t scale to the 7-A stuff and thus Minerva doesn’t either.

This^

I basically agree with this now, sucks that I have to tho

 

[KingTempest]

There isn’t really an issue, it’s just that she is > Orga which means everyone would scale to 7-A. This is wrong though since the Orga statement shows up before Sting and Rogue in Tartaros and when Minerva had left so he doesn’t scale to the 7-A stuff and thus Minerva doesn’t either.

damn, sucks to hear that. agreed with the downgrade then

 

[Zackra1799]

There's an issue with alot of the scaling in the OP.

1. Rufus's statement about Minerva being the strongest doesn't make any sense, as this statement by Rufus takes place after sting one shot Jienma.
So you can't say that Sting < Orga < Minerva < Jienma < Sting? this clearly doesn't work.

2. Rufus's statement also says that She surpasses the twin dragons which doesn't work at all for the same reasons i described in #1. It's quite clear that Rufus's statement is completely unreliable and contradicts itself twice.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

There's an issue with alot of the scaling in the OP.

1. Rufus's statement about Minerva being the strongest doesn't make any sense, as this statement by Rufus takes place after sting one shot Jienma.
So you can't say that Sting < Orga < Minerva < Jienma < Sting? this clearly doesn't work.

2. Rufus's statement also says that She surpasses the twin dragons which doesn't work at all for the same reasons i described in #1. It's quite clear that Rufus's statement is completely unreliable and contradicts itself twice.

1. Sting being amped and one-shotting Jiemma was a temporary amp

2. Rufus's all about memorizing power and his statement likely refers to the powers of the guild excluding that moment

So Minerva being above Orga still makes sense

 

[Nierre]

Followingggg

 

[Zackra1799]

Minerva also can't be above Tartarus Sting as that would put Base Elfman above Sting given he damaged Seilah, which would scale to Bacchus, who sting effortlessly oneshot.

1. Sting being amped and one-shotting Jiemma was a temporary amp

This isn't true given the very next time he fights he can casually oneshot people like Bacchus, who is comparable to the likes of Base Natsu.

2. Rufus's all about memorizing power and his statement likely refers to the powers of the guild excluding that moment

This is a big assumption, you got any proof of this?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Minerva also can't be above Tartarus Sting as that would put Base Elfman above Sting given he damaged Seilah, which would scale to Bacchus, who sting effortlessly oneshot.


This isn't true given the very next time he fights he can casually oneshot people like Bacchus, who is comparable to the likes of Base Natsu.

This is a big assumption, you got any proof of this?

Bacchus doesn't scale to Base Natsu I believe. I think he's just scaling above Elfman, who scales to Lucy and Juvia.

 

[Zackra1799]

Bacchus doesn't scale to Base Natsu I believe. I think he's just scaling above Elfman, who scales to Lucy and Juvia.

Elfman scales above Lamy, and somewhat Etherious Form Seilah as he onehot her while she was off guard but was till massively amped regardless, who are comparable to Lucy's spirits which could fight characters like Torafuzar and Jackel who both scale to Base Natsu.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Minerva also can't be above Tartarus Sting as that would put Base Elfman above Sting given he damaged Seilah, which would scale to Bacchus, who sting effortlessly oneshot.

Pretty sure we all agree on this hence why Orga and those who scale to him get downgraded to 7-B. Downgrade means that no one scales to Tartaros Sting and Rogue besides Demon Jiemma.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Minerva also can't be above Tartarus Sting as that would put Base Elfman above Sting given he damaged Seilah, which would scale to Bacchus, who sting effortlessly oneshot

Dude, I'm agreeing with you, I'm just saying Minerva>Orga

I've already agreed that Orga is not above Tartaros Arc Sting and Rogue

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm neutral here

 

[Zackra1799]

Okay, but what are we gonna do about the Eclipse Dragons given they can take attacks from Sting who is 7-A.

 

[Theendzero13]

To add on sting and rogue scaling in the tartaros arc, do we know for a fact they aren't getting a massive emotion amp? My memory is cloudy since i have not read tartaros in a while but weren't they there to rescue minerva that would for sure grant them an emotion amp which explains why their feats are so better than in the grand magic games

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Eclipse Dragons should stay 7-A. Future Rogue should at least be Tartaros level since Tartaros happens before Avatar where his timeline would diverge and said Dragons would scale to him/one shotting Laxus who would be 7-B+.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Okay, but what are we gonna do about the Eclipse Dragons given they can take attacks from Sting who is 7-A.

Sting isn’t 7-A till Tartaros, otherwise Orga is 7-A during the GMG, and therefore Minerva is 7-A during the GMG, you need to pick one, either Sting isn’t 7-A before Tartaros or he is

Eclipse Dragons should stay 7-A. Future Rogue should at least be Tartaros level since Tartaros happens before Avatar where his timeline would diverge and said Dragons would scale to him/one shotting Laxus who would be 7-B+.

We can’t say that for sure, we have no idea what went down in that other timeline and cannot say that without a doubt, Future Rogue experienced the same things and was as strong as Main Timeline Rogue

 

[CloverDragon03]

We’d scale Eclipse Dragons, HFDM Natsu, and WSDM Future Rogue to 7-B+, scaling them above initial ISDM Gajeel

 

[Zackra1799]

Sting isn’t 7-A till Tartaros, otherwise Orga is 7-A during the GMG, and therefore Minerva is 7-A during the GMG, you need to pick one, either Sting isn’t 7-A before Tartaros or he is

Sting was never stated to have dropped in power after Lector's "death". He even shows this power to the Fairy tail guild members in the final battle of the GMGs. And his only actual feat after oneshoting Jienma is oneshoting Bacchus, so I firmly believe that Sting is 7-A from that point onward. However I completely disagree with Minerva being above Orga though as her only statement of being 7-A from Rufus is completely unreliable, the Orga statement however is in his character bio which is written from the narrator's point of view, aka Mashima, and should have far more weight than an in character statement by Rufus which at worst gets contradicted and at best would require multiple assumptions just to make it work.

I know I'm in the minority on this but that's just how I view the scaling.

 

[BlackeJan]

Okay, but what are we gonna do about the Eclipse Dragons given they can take attacks from Sting who is 7-A.

We just give them an At Least....

 

[Eseseso]

I'm for 7-A upscaling

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

We’d scale Eclipse Dragons, HFDM Natsu, and WSDM Future Rogue to 7-B+, scaling them above initial ISDM Gajeel

How about Ultear?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

She had WS FR running just by showing up even though he was bodying LFDM at the time so whatever WSDM is at.

 

[Elizhaa]

The downgrade option seems to be the better option.

 

[GuildZero]

I agree with the downgrade. But shouldn't sting be 7-A after lectors death. And isn't the statement referring to before lectors death. I don't think orga should scale to sting after lectors death.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I agree with the downgrade. But shouldn't sting be 7-A after lectors death. And isn't the statement referring to before lectors death. I don't think orga should scale to sting after lectors death.

He definitely does, Orga is stated to be the most powerful mage in Sabertooth after the Grand Magic Games Arc in general