Zoro vs Luffy (Pre-Timeskip, East Blue Saga) (ONE MORE VOTE UNTIL GRACE)

[JediMindTrickz]

Surprised no-one has done this battle yet. At whisky peak it was shown that they were basically even in terms of combative ability. We are using the East Blue versions of these guys. No gears for Luffy and no Asura for Zoro.

Speed UNEQUALIZED


Zoro: 6 (@KlinkyGrape, @Theendzero13, @NomsNoms, @Kidkinsey, @Eminiteable @SemiRaedi)
Luffy: 2 (@RazumaHiroki, @TauanVictor)
Inconclusive: 2 (@MonkeyOfLife @PapiSavitar5025)

 

[KlinkyGrape]

They're shown with a lot of the same abilities but I think I'll vote for Zoro for possessing superior skill and having the better effective range; while luffy can stretch further this isn't always beneficial to him like against another sword user called Cracker who cut into his stretched hand, Zoro could do the same while his hawk wave and dragon twister have no such weakness.

 

[JediMindTrickz]

Vote counted.

 

[Theendzero13]

Zoro due to luffy being quite counterd by cutting attacks at this point in the series

 

[JediMindTrickz]

Vote counted.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Luffy wins... This is like putting Luffy vs don kreig again... It is kinda heavily implied Luffy >~ Zoro

 

[JediMindTrickz]

Vote counted + Bump

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This shouldn't really be a match...

 

[JediMindTrickz]

Well people are voting for both Zoro and Luffy so I strongly disagree.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

If literally the creator is saying this person wins then there is no need for a match about it.

 

[JediMindTrickz]

He said this during the East Blue arc? Link?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

He said this during the East Blue arc? Link?

It's heavily implied
Link, link and more

 

[JediMindTrickz]

First link is just Sanji being beat by Arlong. Remember that Zoro was heavily injured during this arc and still beat his second in command. The second link has nothing to do with the East Blue Arc. Regardless this discussion is derailing the main thread, I won't be responding further. It's clear to me that this is a legitimate vs battle entry.

 

[Nierre]

Zoro FRA

 

[Nierre]

And yeah this match is completely viable. It doens't matter if Luffy >~ Zoro. Zoro has Luffy's weakness at this point in the series. Zoro is way smarter, and more experienced than Luffy is. (at this point anyways)

 

[JediMindTrickz]

Do I have to say vote counted everytime?

 

[Nierre]

Nope you don't have to

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Do I have to say vote counted everytime?

No as far I am aware, but you can do a tally on who voted for who with their reasoning.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

First link is just Sanji being beat by Arlong

He is talking about Zoro as well

Remember that Zoro was heavily injured during this arc and still beat his second in command

I know they're heavily injured but it's implied that luffy is the one stronger to take him out.

The second link has nothing to do with the East Blue Arc

Yes it does... It's talking about pre timeskip as a whole...

 

[JediMindTrickz]

He is talking about Zoro as well

I know they're heavily injured but it's implied that luffy is the one stronger to take him out.

Yes it does... It's talking about pre timeskip as a whole...

You're also aware that the swords Zoro is wielding is far inferior to his old ones? Anyways this is pointless I already got your vote.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

You're also aware that the swords Zoro is wielding is far inferior to his old ones?

Yes.. I know... I also know Zoros skill alone should be able to take him out. But it's implied Luffy > Zoro

 

[JediMindTrickz]

Ok. Your vote has been counted.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Hell nah! The Luffy downplay needs to stop. Are people seriously saying Zoro is more skilled than Luffy, despite the latter resulting in a stalemate?.

First of all, Luffy has fought people more experienced, smarter(except his battle smartness), faster and stronger than himself, it's literally a recurring theme throughout the east blue arcs. And the main reason why he got such a big bounty within weeks in the first place (Hence Zoro and the others put so much trust in him taking out the big bullies).

You would think after discovering that Luffy is a rubber human, they wouldn't resort to sharp weapons or non-blunt force trauma methods, except Buggy, Kuro, Krieg and Arlong are not dumb. I doubt anyone remember that Luffy's rubber body durability is not that weak to slashes, he's only vulnerable to it, precisely because he doesn't have special protection against it.

For instance, he tanks a chakram throw that cuts down a tree easily to the back of his head like it's nothing (Luffy was completely caught off-guard btw). The latter he tanks a combined Rankyaku from Kalifa and Kaku, Zoro warned Chopper and Nami to dodge since it was a cutting technique (I used enies lobby, to emphasize that Luffy's rubber body is tougher than you imagine).

1. Luffy literally fought against a guy that made Zoro look like slow in comparison, Zoro couldn't perceive base Kuro's speed (without Shakushi btw), Now compare this to Kuro blitzing the Nyan brothers, Kuro was fully intending to kill Luffy as quickly as possible, yet Luffy was able to perceive him and counter him accordingly. Luffy forced him to go out, even then after seeing his ultimate technique once, despite the insane speed kuro was attacking the people, luffy knew where he would attack him next and catches his leg.
2. Luffy survived Arlong's dangerous "Shark on Darts" , keep in mind that Arlong bit through a freaking pillar like it's a breakfast. Luffy took his shark on darts straight to his stomach, If luffy were an ordinary superhuman or rubber human he would've died instantly, yet he stomped him hard (literally)

Remember that this Zoro (East Blue Zoro) hasn't completely recovered from his big wound inflicted by Mihawk, when Zoro takes a devastating punch to his stomach from Luffy, it'll re-open his wound. East blue Zoro isn't as durable as Arlong (Zero damage) and not as fast as Kuro(already established above), to make matters worse his wound could re-open at any moment and Luffy is definitely going to take advantage of the slightest mistake or weakness Zoro makes during this match (completely in-charracter tho).

Voting Luffy.

 

[JediMindTrickz]

Vote counted, and thank you for your comprehensive reply.

 

[Nierre]

Luffy literally fought against a guy that made Zoro look like slow in comparison, Zoro couldn't perceive base Kuro's speed (without Shakushi btw), Now compare this to Kuro blitzing the Nyan brothers, Kuro was fully intending to kill Luffy as quickly as possible, yet Luffy was able to perceive him and counter him accordingly. Luffy forced him to go out, even then after seeing his ultimate technique once, despite the insane speed kuro was attacking the people, luffy knew where he would attack him next and catches his leg.

Well as for this, Zoro not only had one sword, but he also was caught off guard NUMEROUS of times in this fight. (One of the brothers acting innocent, and sneak attacking Zoro. Zoro chasing after his sword only to get jumped from behind, AND Usopp attacking him from behind and he purposely took the hit. In fact once Zoro got his 3 swords, he quite literally one shot them. As for speed he was able to react to all of them very easily despite being wounded and off guard.

Remember that this Zoro (East Blue Zoro) hasn't completely recovered from his big wound inflicted by Mihawk, when Zoro takes a devastating punch to his stomach from Luffy, it'll re-open his wound. East blue Zoro isn't as durable as Arlong (Zero damage) and not as fast as Kuro(already established above), to make matters worse his wound could re-open at any moment and Luffy is definitely going to take advantage of the slightest mistake or weakness Zoro makes during this match (completely in-charracter tho).

I don't think we're including wounded Zoro in this fight.

 

[Nierre]

Although we're using Zoro from East Blue, we assume he's in peak performance. Unless the OP states otherwise.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Well as for this, Zoro not only had one sword, but he also was caught off guard NUMEROUS of times in this fight. (One of the brothers acting innocent, and sneak attacking Zoro. Zoro chasing after his sword only to get jumped from behind, AND Usopp attacking him from behind and he purposely took the hit. In fact once Zoro got his 3 swords, he quite literally one shot them. As for speed he was able to react to all of them very easily despite being wounded and off guard.

Yes, he was caught-off guard by the Nyan brothers, but that doesn't really matter, considering that him losing swords doesn't make him significantly slower or something like that (the amounts of swords never affected his speed, only kinda his strength), it's like saying two weirdos stole his swords and now Zoro's somehow unable to get them back, despite his overwhelming speed and strength advantage. Zoro said "he isn't used with one sword" doesn't imply he's gotten so weak to the point of not being able to perceive speed of "supposedly slower characters" than himself, Kuro was far faster than the Nyan brothers and that's an undeniable fact.

I don't think we're including wounded Zoro in this fight.

This is East blue zoro and not Grandline Zoro, his wound canonically always played a big role there, because Chopper wasn't there to treat him properly. Even without the wound, he ain't shrugging off Luffy's quick succession combos like Arlong did, whose durability is even higher than Luffy and effortlessly defeated Sanji with water bullets.

 

[Nierre]

This is East blue zoro and not Grandline Zoro, his wound canonically always played a big role there, because Chopper wasn't there to treat him properly. Even without the wound, he ain't shrugging off Luffy's quick succession combos like Arlong did, whose durability is even higher than Luffy and effortlessly defeated Sanji with water bullets.

Unless you want to make a CRT to add that to one of his weaknesses on the page, we always assume characters in their peak performance (exceptions are like All Might and Whitebeard, who have feats of when they're "weakened"). So no, this is Zoro at his peak.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Unless you want to make a CRT to add that to one of his weaknesses on the page, we always assume characters in their peak performance (exceptions are like All Might and Whitebeard, who have feats of when they're "weakened"). So no, this is Zoro at his peak.

Does that really invalidate all my points? also, a CTR is not really needed anyways.

 

[Nierre]

He shouldn't be considered weakened here just because he was damaged inverse. This is a verses battle. A hypothetical situation. The OP never said that Zoro still has his wound (and even if it did, chances are this wouldn't be added, due to it not being on his page). For that to be a legitimate weakness for EBS Zoro, it would need to be on his page.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This is East blue zoro and not Grandline Zoro, his wound canonically always played a big role there, because Chopper wasn't there to treat him properly. Even without the wound, he ain't shrugging off Luffy's quick succession combos like Arlong did, whose durability is even higher than Luffy and effortlessly defeated Sanji with water bullets.

No... They start in peak condition...
Time: The time and date are chosen in such a fashion that all characters are at their strongest.

Kuro was fully intending to kill Luffy as quickly as possible, yet Luffy was able to perceive him and counter him accordingly.

If you are talking about base kudo yes luffy could perceive him... But not when he uses his technique where luffy relied on his reaction/senses

Luffy literally fought against a guy that made Zoro look like slow in comparison, Zoro couldn't perceive base Kuro's speed (without Shakushi btw),

This was not base kuro's speed... he used a technique there.

But otherwise good. Luffy ~ Zoro in skill

 

[RazumaHiroki]

He shouldn't be considered weakened here just because he was damaged inverse. This is a verses battle. A hypothetical situation. The OP never said that Zoro still has his wound (and even if it did, chances are this wouldn't be added, due to it not being on his page). For that to be a legitimate weakness for EBS Zoro, it would need to be on his page.

Why are you only focusing about the wound argument and completely disregarded my other arguments? does that mean you agree with them? even if we completely ignore the whole "wound weakness" my arguments still stands, especially the durability part. "Even my bones would be shattered", Zoro was implying the strength of the Nyan brothers was monstrous, what he did not know that Kuro was significantly stronger and faster than both combined, especially a buffed Buchi. Yes, you could argue that Zoro has gotten stronger after the events of Syrup island. However, his durability and monstrous strength doesn't remotely come even close to Arlong's effortlessly lifting a house before it became Meta and tanking Luffy's brutal beatdown without bruises. In addition, Arlong's teeth/nose are sharper than any sword in Orange village, including Zoro's east blue swords.

Luffy being vulnerable to sharp weapons, is a weakness that every human has, Zoro and Sanji included. However, the big difference is Luffy is more than a just a Human and Rubber, he's a rubber human and trained his fruit for 10 years, thus it takes way more to cut him completely, when even Buggy, Kuro and Arlong couldn't cut do that, why should East blue Zoro pull that off?

 

[Nierre]

Why are you only focusing about the wound argument and completely disregarded my other arguments? does that mean you agree with them? even if we completely ignore the whole "wound weakness" my arguments still stands, especially the durability part.

I'm not disregarding your other arguments, I'm not trying to refute them, I'm just saying that you can't use wounded Zoro in this fight because this fight assumes he's in peak performance. That's all, you're entitled to your vote, I'm not trying to argue against them.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

I'm not disregarding your other arguments, I'm not trying to refute them, I'm just saying that you can't use wounded Zoro in this fight because this fight assumes he's in peak performance. That's all, you're entitled to your vote, I'm not trying to argue against them.

Gotcha that. Like i said earlier, we can completely throw out the whole wound argument,

 

[Eminiteable]

It's heavily implied
Link, link and more

First link was Sanji second one is Artur's translations of Zoro's pre-timeskip vivre card at the end of pre-timeskip; meaning not in the east blue.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

This was not base kuro's speed... he used a technique there.

Nah He was definitely doing his weird dances, he always does it before attacking his enemies. Just like how he massacred 100 marine soldiers within 3 secs (or less, it was implied the moment his Crew saw him entering Marine ship, they were all dead)

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

First link was Sanji second one is Artur's translations of Zoro's pre-timeskip vivre card at the end of pre-timeskip; meaning not in the east blue.

Sure... It's still implied at the beginning of the show Luffy > Zoro

 

[Eminiteable]

Sure... It's still implied at the beginning of the show Luffy > Zoro

At the very least that databook doesn't imply that, it refers to both at the end of pre-timeskip where Luffy had gotten 3 more arcs of constant combat ahead of Zoro.

Hell nah! The Luffy downplay needs to stop. Are people seriously saying Zoro is more skilled than Luffy, despite the latter resulting in a stalemate?.

First of all, Luffy has fought people more experienced, smarter(except his battle smartness), faster and stronger than himself, it's literally a recurring theme throughout the east blue arcs. And the main reason why he got such a big bounty within weeks in the first place (Hence Zoro and the others put so much trust in him taking out the big bullies).

You would think after discovering that Luffy is a rubber human, they wouldn't resort to sharp weapons or non-blunt force trauma methods, except Buggy, Kuro, Krieg and Arlong are not dumb. I doubt anyone remember that Luffy's rubber body durability is not that weak to slashes, he's only vulnerable to it, precisely because he doesn't have special protection against it.

For instance, he tanks a chakram throw that cuts down a tree easily to the back of his head like it's nothing (Luffy was completely caught off-guard btw). The latter he tanks a combined Rankyaku from Kalifa and Kaku, Zoro warned Chopper and Nami to dodge since it was a cutting technique (I used enies lobby, to emphasize that Luffy's rubber body is tougher than you imagine).

1. Luffy literally fought against a guy that made Zoro look like slow in comparison, Zoro couldn't perceive base Kuro's speed (without Shakushi btw), Now compare this to Kuro blitzing the Nyan brothers, Kuro was fully intending to kill Luffy as quickly as possible, yet Luffy was able to perceive him and counter him accordingly. Luffy forced him to go out, even then after seeing his ultimate technique once, despite the insane speed kuro was attacking the people, luffy knew where he would attack him next and catches his leg.
2. Luffy survived Arlong's dangerous "Shark on Darts" , keep in mind that Arlong bit through a freaking pillar like it's a breakfast. Luffy took his shark on darts straight to his stomach, If luffy were an ordinary superhuman or rubber human he would've died instantly, yet he stomped him hard (literally)

I read all of this and struggled to find a justification for why Zoro is inferior to Luffy

Remember that this Zoro (East Blue Zoro) hasn't completely recovered from his big wound inflicted by Mihawk, when Zoro takes a devastating punch to his stomach from Luffy, it'll re-open his wound. East blue Zoro isn't as durable as Arlong (Zero damage) and not as fast as Kuro(already established above), to make matters worse his wound could re-open at any moment and Luffy is definitely going to take advantage of the slightest mistake or weakness Zoro makes during this match (completely in-charracter tho).

This cannot be used as a point against Zoro, in a vs battle it will be assumed he's recovered from the wound and at his peak

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Second Smartest Person in the east blue, he planned his own L.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

luffy > smarter