Some Random One Piece CRT

[KingTempest]

Fujitora was blocking with his blade, but he was still sent flying regardless. They also clashed during the climax of their fight before the Ferocious Tiger pop. Gotta keep in mind Fujitora also didn't do much damage to Luffy either. They both gave eachother small bruises and scratches, that's about it.

He didn't even try to counter, and remember that he didn't even use Koka like he did on the birdcage, he just walked in there (well, Luffy ran up on him) and threw gravity on him

Difference between Sabo vs Fujitora and Luffy vs Fujitora is that there's a clear statement made by Fujitora, where he says "Oh, I couldn't go after SH because I was too preoccupied with you... oopsie~", whereas Fujitora was resolved to capture/kill Luffy in their fight, and if anything, Luffy was giving Fujitora a handicap by calling out his moves.

This is fair then

I think the time from Dressrosa to current is a couple months, but I'll need to look at the time-line since there are easy-to-miss panels like "2 days later" or some nonsense sprinkled out.

Maybe, it's hard to tell

For BM Luffy's dura without Haki? There's no support for this. He blocked Doflamingo's kick while using Haki melding. There's nothing to say he would've tanked the kick if he weren't using Haki.

• D's Haki + Kick is countered by L's Haki + Elasticity. Both Haki canceling out, and Elasticity trumping a Kick.

[*]And before anyone says "Base Luffy can scale", I need to point out despite Luffy's resistance to BF, Doflamingo's non-haki kicks were still dealing damage. It's hard to argue against Doflamingo's Physical AP being > Base Luffy's Dura (including BF resistance).
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We need to discuss if confirmed Haki users harming Luffy with blunt force is gonna be used as "they didn't use haki", because if they do this much damage without haki, then they use haki, Luffy should be dead

 

[CinCameron20]

He didn't even try to counter, and remember that he didn't even use Koka like he did on the birdcage, he just walked in there (well, Luffy ran up on him) and threw gravity on him

This is fair then

Maybe, it's hard to tell

We need to discuss if confirmed Haki users harming Luffy with blunt force is gonna be used as "they didn't use haki", because if they do this much damage without haki, then they use haki, Luffy should be dead

I'm only arguing that Luffy w/ Gear 3rd + Haki is relative to Fujitora's base stats since there's no implication of the latter using an excessive amount of Haki--if any at all. Gear 3rd Luffy uses Haki (almost) exclusively post-ts, therefore Gear 3rd Luffy's stats already account for Haki usage. I think we can all agree that Normal Gear 3rd's AP would simply be > Gear 2nd, that's it.

I think the only time Luffy took a Haki attack from Doflamingo (without protecting himself) was in chapter 745, but to be fair, it did incapacitate him for a few moments, since he was laid out for like 2 minutes until Pica tossed everyone out.

• Doflamingo's regular kicks had less of an effect, but it's to be expected given his vitality was quite low at this point, and he also wasn't using Haki--ofc.

Personally, I don't think Buso Haki gives as much of an AP boost as people believe, but it is notable enough that I do want to apply it to profiles (Gotta remember it mitigates DF powers to an extent, so the effectiveness may appear substantial instead of as moderate as I think it is).

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Personally, I don't think Buso Haki gives as much of an AP boost as people believe

I believe it’s a huge power boost… possibly even more than how many pills hody ate (this hody) no haki vs haki

 

[CinCameron20]

I believe it’s a huge power boost… possibly even more than how many pills hody ate (this hody) no haki vs haki

...? There's no difference. Whether Luffy was using Haki or not, Hody was staggered, bleeding, and knocked off his feet.

Base Luffy could hurt Hody and send him flying.
Base Luffy w/ Haki could hurt Hody and send him flying.
Gear 2nd Luffy could hurt Hody and send him flying.

All examples have the same result.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

...? There's no difference. Whether Luffy was using Haki or not, Hody was staggered, bleeding, and knocked off his feet.

Base Luffy could hurt Hody and send him flying.
Base Luffy w/ Haki could hurt Hody and send him flying.
Gear 2nd Luffy could hurt Hody and send him flying.

All examples have the same result.

makes sense

 

[KingTempest]

We need to discuss if confirmed Haki users harming Luffy with blunt force is gonna be used as "they didn't use haki", because if they do this much damage without haki, then they use haki, Luffy should be dead

I'm not referring to/focusing on the damage portion.
Are we really gonna take every invisible haki feat as pure blunt force?

With the argument of how Buso isn't that much force, here's what i mean.

A kick from Doffy does 30 damage. Luffy's resistance blocks out 25 damage. Doffy's kick now only does 5 damage.
With Buso, the resistance is useless, so Luffy takes all 30 damage.
Luffy should just lose at that point.

 

[KingTempest]

Also

I'm only arguing that Luffy w/ Gear 3rd + Haki is relative to Fujitora's base stats since there's no implication of the latter using an excessive amount of Haki--if any at all. Gear 3rd Luffy uses Haki (almost) exclusively post-ts, therefore Gear 3rd Luffy's stats already account for Haki usage. I think we can all agree that Normal Gear 3rd's AP would simply be > Gear 2nd, that's it.

He used G2nd and G3rd at the same time

 

[Damage3245]

He used G2nd and G3rd at the same time

That's debatable. For years the common interpretation was that he's been using Gear 3. An interpretation that he's using Gear 2 + 3 is equally valid but not necessarily the case.

EDIT: What I mean is that the smoke for Gear 2 could be for Luffy's running there, not for Gear 2 being included in the attack itself.

 

[KingTempest]

That's debatable. For years the common interpretation was that he's been using Gear 3. An interpretation that he's using Gear 2 + 3 is equally valid but not necessarily the case.

He has the smoke of G2nd while he punches, it's clear that he used it, plus that's signifying that he's holding back to an extent, which is out of character for Luffy to do against someone of this strength

EDIT: What I mean is that the smoke for Gear 2 could be for Luffy's running there, not for Gear 2 being included in the attack itself.

We see the smoke from him running in the previous page, then we see him activate gear second and there's the curled smoke I referenced several pages before. Bottom right clearly emphasizes the different types of smoke

 

[Damage3245]

plus that's signifying that he's holding back to an extent, which is out of character for Luffy to do against someone of this strength

That's not a valid argument otherwise Luffy would using Gear 2nd with every single Gear 3rd attack.

Also Luffy was holding back anyway because he wasn't using Gear 4th.

 

[Eminiteable]

Luffy is definitely using Gear second + Gear Third, it's pretty much the same thing he used against Pay-Pay and Ulti

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Where did luffy even hurt fujitora? Talking about this?

When the next chapter the scratch thing is fully gone...

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Time to pull an Ant

What are the conclusions here?

 

[Damage3245]

Time to pull an Ant

What are the conclusions here?

This CRT's about like 30 different things. Not sure how we begin to sum up conclusions from that.

 

[KingTempest]

Hody scaling above Usopp

Usopp scaling to either Trebol or Buffalo

If everybody that Zoro breaths near scales or not because he holds back too much.

The multiplier getting accepted.

Non Haki ratings for those who only scale with Haki.

Do we split up Kata and Doffy with everything that they do.

A1, A2 with Mochi Mochi/Ito Ito, A3 with Awakening

Which comes first the chicken or the egg (the character or the biscuit soldiers/black knight)

Some other stuff

 

[CinCameron20]

Where did luffy even hurt fujitora? Talking about this?

When the next chapter the scratch thing is fully gone...

Bottom left of the first scan you posted. Fujitora has a visible bruise on his face after trying to block the Elephant Gun. Also we see marks on both Fujitora and Luffy in different spots in the 2-page spread of them fighting earlier in the next chapter

Do we split up Kata and Doffy with everything that they do.

Which comes first the chicken or the egg (the character or the biscuit soldiers/black knight)

The user should come first, and I don't think Doffy's AP w/ the Ito-Ito is higher than his physicals since he practically gets the same result against Law and Luffy (also was going to decapitate Kyros with a normal kick).

For Doflamingo (focusing on AP only): "At least High 7-A normally, Possibly 6-C with Awakening" | "High 7-A" for Black Knight as it hurt Luffy twice, and casually slapped one of his Gear 2nd(?) punches away.

For Cracker (focusing on AP only): "At least High 7-A, Possibly 6-C with Haki" The former for cutting base BM Luffy's face, the latter for cutting into Luffy's Haki-protected arm with his own Haki infused slash. | "High 7-A" with Biscuit Soldiers for fighting Base Luffy, then growing more limbs and being able to overpower even Gear 2nd and 3rd Luffy (Stat Amp)

For Katakuri (focusing on AP only): "High 7-A normally, At least High 7-A with Mochi-Mochi no mi, Possibly 6-C with Awakening" Katakuri casually overpowered and hurt Gear 2nd Luffy w/ base physicals... His Mochi powers enhanced him to easily overpower an Elephant Gun, and his Awakening was a threat to BM Luffy.

This is under the belief that G3 Luffy in Round 2 is base-line 6-C, correct?

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Bottom left of the first scan you posted. Fujitora has a visible bruise on his face after trying to block the Elephant Gun. Also we see marks on both Fujitora and Luffy in different spots in the 2-page spread of them fighting earlier in the next chapter


The user should come first, and I don't think Doffy's AP w/ the Ito-Ito is higher than his physicals since he practically gets the same result against Law and Luffy (also was going to decapitate Kyros with a normal kick).

For Doflamingo (focusing on AP only): "At least High 7-A normally, Possibly 6-C with Awakening" | "High 7-A" for Black Knight as it hurt Luffy twice, and casually slapped one of his Gear 2nd(?) punches away.

For Cracker (focusing on AP only): "At least High 7-A, Possibly 6-C with Haki" The former for cutting base BM Luffy's face, the latter for cutting into Luffy's Haki-protected arm with his own Haki infused slash. | "High 7-A" with Biscuit Soldiers for fighting Base Luffy, then growing more limbs and being able to overpower even Gear 2nd and 3rd Luffy (Stat Amp)

For Katakuri (focusing on AP only): "High 7-A normally, At least High 7-A with Mochi-Mochi no mi, Possibly 6-C with Awakening" Katakuri casually overpowered and hurt Gear 2nd Luffy w/ base physicals... His Mochi powers enhanced him to easily overpower an Elephant Gun, and his Awakening was a threat to BM Luffy.

This is under the belief that G3 Luffy in Round 2 is base-line 6-C, correct?

Why would katakuri get a possibly 6-C with awakening? He literally hurt boundman with awakening, it's a solid 6-C fam.

 

[XDragnoir]

What Doffy used to cause all those bruises in BM's face?

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

What Doffy used to cause all those bruises in BM's face?

It had to be his Awakening Strings since that was the only thing Doffy attacked BM Luffy with after he brought them out in Chapter 785.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

It had to be his Awakening Strings since that was the only thing Doffy attacked BM Luffy with after he brought them out in Chapter 785.

If he caused bruises then he should definitely scale

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

If he caused bruises then he should definitely scale

I agree. As I pointed out to you before, some of those bruises on BM Luffy's face weren't there at any other time before Doffy's Awakening reveal. It took years, but I think we've finally found proof that Doffy did some damage to Bound Man (even if minor) in that fight lol.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I agree. As I pointed out to you before, some of those bruises on BM Luffy's face weren't there at any other time before Doffy's Awakening reveal. I took years, but I think we've finally found proof that Doffy did some damage (even if minor) in that fight lol.

That sounds fine to me

 

[CinCameron20]

Why would katakuri get a possibly 6-C with awakening? He literally hurt boundman with awakening, it's a solid 6-C fam.

Did you forget BM Luffy's dura is only 3.9GT in areas where no Haki is involved? He's 6-C Dura via Haki Amp (mainly cuz he no-sold a kick from a Haki + DF amp'd Doflamingo)

But just like Doflamingo, he fought roughly on par with BM Luffy in this state for ~25 minutes, so he gets a Possibly 6-C (Possibly because we know his FS carried him)

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Did you forget BM Luffy's dura is only 3.9GT in areas where no Haki is involved? He's 6-C Dura via Haki Amp (mainly cuz he no-sold a kick from a Haki + DF amp'd Doflamingo)

But just like Doflamingo, he fought roughly on par with BM Luffy in this state for ~25 minutes, so he gets a Possibly 6-C (Possibly because we know his FS carried him)

I’m pretty sure Katakuri did hurt him in haki areas iirc, also not to mention that Doflamingo’s possibly 6-C does make sense to me, but I’m pretty sure kata hurt him in haki areas.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Also I think the usopp scaling to 7-B and base hody scaling above him should be tackled first in order to get this all accepted, as well as the multiplier which I’m sure everyone agrees with

 

[CinCameron20]

I’m pretty sure Katakuri did hurt him in haki areas iirc, also not to mention that Doflamingo’s possibly 6-C does make sense to me, but I’m pretty sure kata hurt him in haki areas.

Both times he hurt Luffy on-panel, no Haki protection is present. He even punched Luffy's Haki-infused arm to the side and it didn't do any apparent damage--just deflecting Luffy's punch.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Both times he hurt Luffy on-panel, no Haki protection is present. He even punched Luffy's Haki-infused arm to the side and it didn't do any apparent damage--just deflecting Luffy's punch.

alright, but then what about round 2 gear third? Would that also be a possibly 6-C, while gear 4th round 2 would just be a normal 6-C

 

[CinCameron20]

Gear 4th Bounce-Man (both rounds) would be 6-C while Doffy, Kata, Cracker(?), and R2 Gear 3 Luffy would be Possibly 6-C, scaling slightly under BM Luffy.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Gear 4th Bounce-Man would be 6-C while Doffy, Kata, Cracker(?), and R2 Gear 3 Luffy would be Possibly 6-C, scaling slightly under BM Luffy.

Sounds fine to me

 

[Eminiteable]

What Doffy used to cause all those bruises in BM's face?

He had them before he transformed.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Gear 4th Bounce-Man (both rounds) would be 6-C while Doffy, Kata, Cracker(?), and R2 Gear 3 Luffy would be Possibly 6-C, scaling slightly under BM Luffy.

Just to mention I think round 2 gear 4th bounce man should get an “At least 6-C” since we know round 1 is already baseline 6-C

 

[Eminiteable]

Gear 4th Bounce-Man (both rounds) would be 6-C while Doffy, Kata, Cracker(?), and R2 Gear 3 Luffy would be Possibly 6-C, scaling slightly under BM Luffy.

Maybe you forgot but Doflamingo had his scaling to Boundman with awakening removed pretty recently, his scaling there was rejected in place of just higher.

Cracker cut through Boundman's armament clad arm, he fully scales there's no reason for a possibly rating there. Katakuri harmed Luffy as well and has his statements that put him above Cracker so he fully scales as well.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Maybe you forgot but Doflamingo had his scaling to Boundman with awakening removed pretty recently, his scaling there was rejected in place of just higher.

Cracker cut through Boundman's armament clad arm, he fully scales there's no reason for a possibly rating there. Katakuri harmed Luffy as well and has his statements that put him above Cracker so he fully scales as well.

I agree with this

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

He had them before he transformed.

Not all of them. Some of them weren't there before Luffy transformed, even with Oda's annoying habit of putting bruises/scratches on a character one moment and then having them disappear in the next. Such as some of the marks on Luffy's forehead where he says "No time left", or some of those marks on the right side of his face where he says "Rubber Rubber".

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

Maybe you forgot but Doflamingo had his scaling to Boundman with awakening removed pretty recently, his scaling there was rejected in place of just higher.

Cracker cut through Boundman's armament clad arm, he fully scales there's no reason for a possibly rating there. Katakuri harmed Luffy as well and has his statements that put him above Cracker so he fully scales as well.

I agree with Cin that Cracker should get a Possibly rating because he could only cut through Luffy's haki-clad arm while he was off-guard. When he tried to attack Luffy head on using haki, BM Luffy easily overpowered him with Kong Gun. But I actually agree that Katakuri should get a full on 6-C rating via Awakening.

 

[Eminiteable]

I agree with Cin that Cracker should get a Possibly rating because he could only cut through Luffy's haki-clad arm while he was off-guard. When he tried to attack Luffy head on using haki, BM Luffy easily overpowered him with Kong Gun.

Being off-guard doesn't lower armament Haki's durability, that makes no sense. Boundman Overpowered the biscuit Soldier with the Kong Gun, not Cracker himself.

Not all of them. Some of them weren't there before Luffy transformed, even with Oda's annoying habit of putting bruises/scratches on a character one moment and then having them disappear in the next. Such as some of the marks on Luffy's forehead where he says "No time left", or some of those marks on the right side of his face where he says "Rubber Rubber".

Just looks like inconsistent bruises to me, he was damaged before transforming.

Either way this was also brought up in the thread got got Doflamingo downgraded, Luffy's regular skin doesn't scale to his armament haki in Boundman so even if Doffy did harm him he has no reason to scale to Armament Boundman like Cracker and Katakuri do.

 

[XDragnoir]

Well, if we don't have a way to tier BM's non-haki tier then Cracker will be 7A+ without haki, since it seems no one wants to just downscale him to H7A+.

Or can we scale him comparable to his biscuit soldiers?

 

[Eminiteable]

Or can we scale him comparable to his biscuit soldiers?

I believe that's what's currently in the sandbox

 

[joshpiece]

Just looks like inconsistent bruises to me, he was damaged before transforming.

Either way this was also brought up in the thread got got Doflamingo downgraded, Luffy's regular skin doesn't scale to his armament haki in Boundman so even if Doffy did harm him he has no reason to scale to Armament Boundman like Cracker and Katakuri do.

100 percent agree we should not rely on bruises that are inconsistent to grant scaling especially when every time on panel he’s getting pummeled.

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

Being off-guard doesn't lower armament Haki's durability, that makes no sense. Boundman Overpowered the biscuit Soldier with the Kong Gun, not Cracker himself..

Well, you explain it then. Why is it that Cracker completely failed when he tried to cut through Luffy's haki in both of his Bound Man and Tank Man's forms head-on, but the one time he succeeds is while Luffy is off-guard and is trying to pull his outstretched arm back in?

And also, that was Cracker himself in Armor that Luffy overpowered, not one of his Biscuit Soldiers.

Just looks like inconsistent bruises to me, he was damaged before transforming.

Well, I could see how you could think that, but some of these bruises really don't appear on Luffy's face at any point in Dressrosa until after Doffy's Awakening reveal, and I already acknowledged Luffy was damaged before transforming. In Chapter 785, there's also the panel showing a yellow spark/splash on Doflamingo's Awakening Strings visually indicating that the threads had landed a glancing blow on BM Luffy when he tried to dodge one of the attacks. So it's not as unbelievable as you and some of the others here (and pretty much everywhere else) think that Doffy managed to put some bruises on Bound Man while they were fighting off-panel during that 20 minute timeskip.

Either way this was also brought up in the thread got got Doflamingo downgraded, Luffy's regular skin doesn't scale to his armament haki in Boundman so even if Doffy did harm him he has no reason to scale to Armament Boundman like Cracker and Katakuri do.

What about scaling Doffy to Armament Bound Man for blocking his Double Culverin with Off-White w/o using haki? Or Luffy admitting via flashback that Armament Bound Man couldn't beat Doflamingo with anything less than KKG? But if you and others disagree, meh, I'm completely fine with Doffy just scaling to Regular Bound Man.