Massive Haki Devil Fruit Resistance Revisions

[KingTempest]

This might actually be one of the most controversial (to those outside this verse) revision on this verse yet, but I'll make it short, sweet, and simple.

Color of Armament's Resistance CRT

Introduction Armament Haki (also known as Busoshoku, Color of Arms/CoA, Ryuo, Spiritual Armor, etc) is one of the three colors/shades of Haki, the others being Observation Haki (Kenbunshoku) and Conqueror's (Haoshoku) Haki. This is the Haki most used for combat. It's used to amplify strength and...

vsbattles.com

This Content Revision Thread was the explanation of many statements and feats that Devil Fruit abilities are resisted by Haki.

KingTempest16/Devil Fruit Abilities

vsbattles.fandom.com

This is a sandbox I've been working on for a potential blog post or page of the list of Devil Fruits.

We've discussed that Haki doesn't just shut down every devil fruit ability, but it shuts down offensive devil fruit abilities (abilities that directly affect others).
The Bari Bari no Mi (Barrier) is not an offensive ability, it's pure defense, so it does not bypass barriers/forcefields.
The Spatial Slashes of the Ope Ope no Mi are offensive abilities, which have been stated on canon to be resisted.

I haven't stated this yet, but it should be a thing that we don't accept byproducts of Devil Fruit abilities to be resisted.
For example, Existence Erasure from Moria's fruit, the Kage Kage no Mi, is a byproduct of not having your shadow. Not having your shadow is Moria's effect, but existence erasure is verse mechanic which we tie to his fruit.

Now, this thread is just to accept/decline the resistance of all the offensive abilities in the sandbox, and when the sandbox is done, it'll be applied.

Some abilities have users that are not on this wiki, so I've added my own interpretation of those abilities. Those need to be checked out.

I thank Kobster, Emin, LordGin, UchihaSlayer, and some others for their help.

 

[Damage3245]

Personally I would only count the ones that have been directly shown or stated to interact with Haki so far in the series.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I agree with the CRT.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Agree with the CRT as well.

 

[KingTempest]

Personally I would only count the ones that have been directly shown or stated to interact with Haki so far in the series.

This is a valid approach that I have no issue with, since it's at least 86 Paramecia and Logia fruits that will end up being resisted.

The issue with this is that there's statements that make it known that the majority of them that won't be canonically shown will be resisted.

For example, Haki would most definitely resist a Mera2 fireball, but we most likely won't see the fireball canonically get blocked by Haki. Are we gonna say "we don't see it, so we don't apply it"?

I feel like the statements and current feats should be enough.

 

[Damage3245]

For example, Haki would most definitely resist a Mera2 fireball, but we most likely won't see the fireball canonically get blocked by Haki. Are we gonna say "we don't see it, so we don't apply it"?

I wouldn't apply it, personally speaking.

Blackbeard is currently accepted to be an Armament Haki user yet he was burned by Ace without any sign of resisting his flames and had to use his Devil Fruit to absorb it.

Of course one could say that Blackbeard didn't have Armament Haki at the time, or maybe Ace's flames were too good - but the same applies to Sabo vs. Jesus Burgess too. Jesus has Armamement Haki, Jesus ended up being fried by Sabo.

So based on the showings we have so far from Armament Haki users vs. Flame-Flame fruit users, I am not convinced that Armament Haki allows them to resist fire.

 

[KingTempest]

Blackbeard is currently accepted to be an Armament Haki user yet he was burned by Ace without any sign of resisting his flames and had to use his Devil Fruit to absorb it.

Of course one could say that Blackbeard didn't have Armament Haki at the time, or maybe Ace's flames were too good

I quote myself in the previous thread.

My next example is a statement from a Haki user, Smoker, talking to his protégée about how her Haki can't stand up to Trafalgar Law's, a Haki user, ability.
"Your Haki can't stand up to his ability!" Showing that there is certain haki that can stand up to his ability, which is from a greater Haki user.

And we know for a fact that Ace has Haki via his novel, where he's a very good user.

I'd take the guy trained by Whitebeard over the guy who sat on his ass to abuse a Devil Fruit power any day.

but the same applies to Sabo vs. Jesus Burgess too. Jesus has Armamement Haki, Jesus ended up being fried by Sabo.

Sabo has Haki and he's already showed superiority via their clash even before he got a devil fruit.

Not including the fact that we don't see him using Armament every time he's burned.

 

[KingTempest]

Also, Blackbeard is a horrible example.

We don't even know his proficiency with Haki. So he shouldn't be an example at all.

 

[Damage3245]

I'd still prefer to avoid speculation like whether or not Sabo using Haki on his flames to overpower Jesus' Haki, or whether or not Ace did the same with Blackbeard. Pre-Timeskip Haki feats are difficult to ascertain at times.

But still, by statements I mean direct statements for the ability in question not a general "all Devil Fruit abilities/attacks" statement.

 

[joshpiece]

Looks good and is supported by the narrative I agree.

But still, by statements I mean direct statements for the ability in question not a general "all Devil Fruit abilities/attacks" statement.

I mean can we cut Oda some slack here? He’s not going to throw a statement like that for every DF user. We have multiple statements saying all DF with nothing that really contradicts it why are we not taking the general statement at face value?

 

[KingTempest]

I'd still prefer to avoid speculation like whether or not Sabo using Haki on his flames to overpower Jesus' Haki, or whether or not Ace did the same with Blackbeard. Pre-Timeskip Haki feats are difficult to ascertain at times.

The same goes for assuming that they used Haki to defend. Pre Timeskip falls under this

Also, Blackbeard is a horrible example.

We don't even know his proficiency with Haki. So he shouldn't be an example at all.

Which was the exact same reason why that Admiral being 1/3 WB scaling off of Haki was dropped, because we can't assume how good people are with Haki if we don't see it.

Trafalgar Law fought Smoker, a Haki user, and could not spatially cut him at all until he caught him off guard w/out Haki.
Burgess never defended w/ Haki, as well as Blackbeard.

But still, by statements I mean direct statements for the ability in question not a general "all Devil Fruit abilities/attacks" statement.

You want a direct statement for a hundred devil fruits+ that they all get resisted by Haki?
Isn't

Busoshoku (武装色) is Haki that strengthens one's offense and defense like armor. With it, it can defend them against a Devil Fruit users (悪魔の実) abilities while also allowing them to potentially strike back!

Good enough?

We won't see every Devil Fruit along the way. The current arc is full of Zoans. We won't get a statement for all of those abilities.

I mean, it's a reasonable perspective, it's just extremely unrealistic that it'll ever come to pass.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I agree with tempest, I find it unreasonable AF that we need to show statements for all devil fruits, the statement tempest gave should be way more than enough.

 

[Eminiteable]

I agree with the proposals, I'll reply later with my thoughts on the sandbox and abilities I believe to be offensive (and as such be resisted).

 

[Damage3245]

We won't see every Devil Fruit along the way. The current arc is full of Zoans. We won't get a statement for all of those abilities.

What do you mean by this? That we assume Haki can resist Zoans too?

Busoshoku (武装色) is Haki that strengthens one's offense and defense like armor. With it, it can defend them against a Devil Fruit users (悪魔の実) abilities while also allowing them to potentially strike back!

Defend doesn't necessarily mean resistance. It mentions "strengthening one's defense like armor". If a Haki user survives an explosion thanks to coating themselves in Armament Haki, does that mean they resisted the explosion or they tanked the explosion thanks to their durability increasing?

 

[DastardlyDangerousDracoga]

Man, this is one large sandbox I shall read later. In the meantime...

 

[KingTempest]

What do you mean by this? That we assume Haki can resist Zoans too?

No. Literally the opposite.
A Zoan transformation is not an offensive ability. You cannot transform somebody else.

I mean that we won't see Paramecia and Logia abilities for the entire series to say "ok, this gets resisted, that gets resisted" no. We're in an arc where I can count on my one hand the number of DF abilities that could possibly be resisted. Oda doesn't have time for that.

Defend doesn't necessarily mean resistance. It mentions "strengthening one's defense like armor". If a Haki user survives an explosion thanks to coating themselves in Armament Haki, does that mean they resisted the explosion or they tanked the explosion thanks to their durability increasing?

I quote the previous thread.

About the databook statement it mentions defending/blocking against attacks, sure, but that does not necessarily mean a resistance to every type of ability. It mentions blocking Devil Fruit attacks at the same moment that it mentions blocking physical attacks. It could simply refer to increasing durability in general.

We don't assume Haki gives a Resistance to Physical Strikes. So I wouldn't automatically assume that every time a Haki user blocks an attack from a Devil Fruit user that they're automatically resisting it and not just tanking it - unless it was specifically something that bypassed durability like Law.

The second picture for the databook scan showed a Haki user deflecting an attack from a rubber man.

The point could be taken as what you said, but the other instances of Haki > Devil Fruits, it shows that it's not just amped durability.

Physical Strikes isn't a devil fruit ability. It can be amped by Devil Fruit abilities, but it's not a devil fruit ability. and it's cause we don't get that many offensive devil fruit abilities. Bellamy's fruit can amp his strikes, but we're not saying "resistance to body control" because of it.

Law's fruit is an example, it's clearly an offensive technique which gets resisted.

 

[Dr.Fix]

We've discussed that Haki doesn't just shut down every devil fruit ability, but it shuts down offensive devil fruit abilities (abilities that directly affect others).
The Bari Bari no Mi (Barrier) is not an offensive ability, it's pure defense, so it does not bypass barriers/forcefields.
The Spatial Slashes of the Ope Ope no Mi are offensive abilities, which have been stated on canon to be resisted.

Nah, this was already addressed as a mistranslation. "abilities" rather than attacks or offensive is the correct translation.

I haven't stated this yet, but it should be a thing that we don't accept byproducts of Devil Fruit abilities to be resisted.
For example, Existence Erasure from Moria's fruit, the Kage Kage no Mi, is a byproduct of not having your shadow. Not having your shadow is Moria's effect, but existence erasure is verse mechanic which we tie to his fruit.

This needs more explanation because I'm not sure if EE is not related to said fruit but there are other abilities like Big Mom's which are definite byproducts.

Now, this thread is just to accept/decline the resistance of all the offensive abilities in the sandbox, and when the sandbox is done, it'll be applied.

As I said before this is over-kill. Strictyly resistance to abilities from devil fruits is fine. If it comes from a devil fruit is gets resisted (to some extent) by haki, If it does not come from a Devil fruit, the haki resistance does not apply.

This thread should instead focus on active character profiles, not ones which do not exist.

Example: Jinbei's profile we can remove Heat resistance since that came from a devil fruit it automatically falls under his haki power without having to be specified or said twice.

Personally I would only count the ones that have been directly shown or stated to interact with Haki so far in the series.

I don't think that is required since no one said only "some" devil fruits.

Also, Blackbeard is a horrible example.

We don't even know his proficiency with Haki. So he shouldn't be an example at all.

IIRC you stated this applies to everyone with BH regardless of feats.

 

[KingTempest]

Nah, this was already addressed as a mistranslation. "abilities" rather than attacks or offensive is the correct translation.

I explained why it was offensive in the other thread.
The translation says "abilities", but the resistance only works on offensive abilities.

This needs more explanation because I'm not sure if EE is not related to said fruit but there are other abilities like Big Mom's which are definite byproducts.

Moria takes someone's shadow. If they stand in the sunlight without their shadow, their existence gets erased.
Moria is not erasing someone's existence. He's the cause of it, but he's not directly doing it.

As I said before this is over-kill. Strictyly resistance to abilities from devil fruits is fine. If it comes from a devil fruit is gets resisted (to some extent) by haki, If it does not come from a Devil fruit, the haki resistance does not apply.

Like I've explained in many threads.
Devil Fruit abilities and regular abilities have no differentiation.
A Devil Fruit ability counts as a regular ability.

This is like another verse saying "I can absorb all Ki/Chakra/Nen/Reiatsu" and saying "only abilities tied to that power system. If it doesn't come from that power system, then it doesn't count". No.

IIRC you stated this applies to everyone with BH regardless of feats.

That's not what I mean Fix. That statement was because the resistance of Devil Fruits was called a basic ability.

We don't see him using Haki pre timeskip, so we can't assume that he used it at that moment without proof.

In many threads, those who we don't see using Busoshoku: Kuko pre timeskip don't get the luxury of being assumed to use Haki.
There's no proof Blackbeard used Haki to defend himself.
So because we have no proof of him using Haki in that instance, we don't assume he used it in that instance.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I explained why it was offensive in the other thread.
The translation says "abilities", but the resistance only works on offensive abilities.

I still don't understand why it needs to be only offensive abilities when haki has resisted abilities like teleportation and stuff which isn't offensive... And offensive can mean alot of stuff... People are so creative in One piece that they make something that is not offensive at all to something that is

 

[Eminiteable]

I still don't understand why it needs to be only offensive abilities when haki has resisted abilities like teleportation and stuff which isn't offensive... And offensive can mean alot of stuff... People are so creative in One piece that they make something that is not offensive at all to something that is

Forcibly moving someone is offensive.

 

[KingTempest]

I still don't understand why it needs to be only offensive abilities when haki has resisted abilities like teleportation and stuff which isn't offensive...

Law is forcibly teleporting somebody else, which means he's offensively teleporting you.

And offensive can mean alot of stuff... People are so creative in One piece that they make something that is not offensive at all to something that is

Things that are offensive in nature get resisted.

For example. The bari bari pistol is not offensive in nature, it's just a devil fruit that is meant for forcefields.
He can wrap it around his fist to increase striking power, but that's not the purpose of the barrier.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Forcibly moving someone is offensive.

What about the Awa Awa no Mi anything she touches turn into bubbles which isn't offensive... Would haki not work sine it isn't offensive?

 

[Eminiteable]

What about the Awa Awa no Mi anything she touches turn into bubbles which isn't offensive...

Forcibly changing someone is offensive as well, similar to how law's spatial cuts forcibly split people despite doing no damage.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Forcibly changing someone is offensive as well, similar to how law's spatial cuts forcibly split people despite doing no damage.

I still think armament haki resists other abilities not just offensive ones...

 

[KingTempest]

What about the Awa Awa no Mi anything she touches turn into bubbles which isn't offensive... Would haki not work sine it isn't offensive?

Anything that is meant to affect somebody is offensive.

You're accidentally mistaking "offensive" with "attack", which I take fault for not clarifying.

Anything that affects the enemy is offensive.

I still think armament haki resists other abilities not just offensive ones...

It can't resist "defensive" abilities.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Anything that is meant to affect somebody is offensive.

You're accidentally mistaking "offensive" with "attack", which I take fault for not clarifying.

Anything that affects the enemy is offensive.

It can't resist "defensive" abilities.

Well what about logia... Armament haki resist their element kinda or luffy he is made of rubber and haki resist him

 

[KingTempest]

Well what about logia... Armament haki resist their element kinda or luffy he is made of rubber and haki resist him

That's not resisting, that's negation, which is a different portion of it.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

That's not resisting, that's negation, which is a different portion of it.

Ok but what if we see haki resisting a normal ability that isn't offensive? Which should mean that it's not just offensive abilities... Ill see if I found any

 

[KingTempest]

Ok but what if we see haki resisting a normal ability that isn't offensive? Which should mean that it's not just offensive abilities...

Can you give me some examples of non-offensive Devil Fruits that can get resisted?

 

[Dr.Fix]

I explained why it was offensive in the other thread.

And I told you it was abilities, which was confirmed witht he right translation.

It can't resist "defensive" abilities.

Anything that affects the enemy is offensive.

You're speaking of the cuff rather than using the manga which is why I am against "offensive abilities." you are leaving it up to head canon what is what and there by up to head canon what can and cannot be resisted.

Like I've explained in many threads.
Devil Fruit abilities and regular abilities have no differentiation.
A Devil Fruit ability counts as a regular ability.

I don't know or care about other threads. I only care about facts. Facts are Haki clearly rsists Devil fruits. This was explored just yesterday.
You want Haki to resistance non-devil fruit abilities make a CRT showing why from the manga.

That's not what I mean Fix. That statement was because the resistance of Devil Fruits was called a basic ability.

Ie it goes to everyone, even if they haven't show a great level. That was the point.

We don't see him using Haki pre timeskip, so we can't assume that he used it at that moment without proof.

You can say the same thing about Garp.

There's no proof Blackbeard used Haki to defend himself.
So because we have no proof of him using Haki in that instance, we don't assume he used it in that instance.

He resisted Ace's flames which was more than Garp demonstrated. Enough said.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Can you give me some examples of non-offensive Devil Fruits that can get resisted?

Suke Suke no Mi what ever they touch becomes invisible is that offensive?

 

[Eminiteable]

Suke Suke no Mi what ever they touch becomes invisible is that offensive?

Both would still count as offensive since they're effecting someone's body against their will.

 

[KingTempest]

And I told you it was abilities, which was confirmed witht he right translation.

You're speaking of the cuff rather than using the manga which is why I am against "offensive abilities." you are leaving it up to head canon what is what and there by up to head canon what can and cannot be resisted.

You consistently do not understand the point.

Can you resist a defensive ability?
Can you resist a barrier?
Can you resist a shield?
Can you resist someone else teleporting themselves?
Can you resist someone else disappearing?
Can you resist someone else amping themselves?
Can you resist someone else doing anything to themselves?

No. Why? Because those are not offensive abilities. You cannot resist something that is not happening to you.

Nobody except YOU is referring to the translation. I'm referring to the basic definition of resist.

I don't know or care about other threads. I only care about facts. Facts are Haki clearly resists Devil fruits. This was explored just yesterday.
You want Haki to resistance non-devil fruit abilities make a CRT showing why from the manga.

I don't need to make a CRT for it.

A CRT is to revise content that is accepted on the wiki.
Your point isn't on the wiki. I don't need to CRT something that isn't accepted.

Ie it goes to everyone, even if they haven't show a great level. That was the point.

You're not understanding, at all.

Damage said that he didn't resist it using Haki. I said he didn't even show Haki.

I don't understand how you twisted it to your own argument of this..

You can say the same thing about Garp.

Can you bring up anything revolving Garp relevant in this discussion?
Did I say Garp at all? No.

He resisted Ace's flames which was more than Garp demonstrated. Enough said.

Proof that he resisted it? He got burned and complained. What are you even talking about?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Both would still count as offensive since they're effecting someone's body against their will.

Well what is not an offensive ability then? Because otherwise any ability that they user can hurt or affect someone will be an offensive ability... Anything can be offensive but not an offensive ability im getting confused

 

[Damage3245]

Both would still count as offensive since they're effecting someone's body against their will.

I feel like this is a generous interpretation of the statements from the databook or the manga.

To now mean "anything that affects someone in any way against their will is resisted".

 

[KingTempest]

Well what is not an offensive ability then? Because otherwise any ability that they user can hurt or affect someone will be an offensive ability...

That's the point.

Anything can be offensive but not an offensive ability im getting confused

Can you resist a barrier?
Can you resist a shield?
Can you resist someone else teleporting themselves?
Can you resist someone else disappearing?
Can you resist someone else amping themselves?
Can you resist someone else doing anything to themselves?

No. Why? Because those are not offensive abilities. You cannot resist something that is not happening to you.

 

[Eminiteable]

I feel like this is a generous interpretation of the statements from the databook or the manga.

To now mean "anything that affects someone in any way against their will is resisted".

I'm using law's fruit as a basis which does exactly that.

 

[KingTempest]

You sure haki can't resist the Bari Bari no Mi?

Resist definition

withstand the action or effect of.

Can you explain to me how you withstand a barrier?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Resist definition

Can you explain to me how you withstand a barrier?

Well if someone creates a portal would that mean haki can't resist it?

 

[Eminiteable]

Can you explain to me how you withstand a barrier?

I think the barriers have attack reflection if he means that.