Lord Boros Speed Issue still hasn't been resolved.

[Kachon123]

I am not dragging it forever, only for 2 pages so far because I feel like my arguments weren't fully addressed, and I know current rating isn't supported by scans presented on the profile, links in the profile say one thing, statements in the scans of those links say another thing. Current rating is the result of adding your own interpretation of whatever happened in the manga and using out of context statements just for the sole purpose of getting Relativistic+.
And you can't shut down some two page discussion where there are CRTs going on for 10 pages.

You kinda have. We have already had a CRT where we talked about this and agreed to something. Now, since you didn't get what you wanted, you made this. THats not how things go. It's not about one person, it's about the general people and how they agree. We gave you your chance to make your statement and we still all disagree. Please stop wasting our time so we can get to more important things.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Like stated earlier.

As I've said before, that's more indicative of super strength rather than super speed. It would only really apply of the series itself followed physics semi-consistently but it doesn't.

As for the rest of you.... what? How is one person disagreeing with a profile for a total of one and half pages something notable? I made 4 500 comment threads before to remove the old 7-B MHS+ BoS Genos scaling and that was far more radical that what Slac is proposing.

 

[Slacjow]

Rel+ due to the calc like it always has been. This shouldn't be an argument. The lack of friction made it easier of Saitama to move at the speed. The speed being 75% SOL, though we changed it to 90% SOL.

There's no friction in space, the atmosphere of the Earth extends to max 100km above the surface. The distance between the Moon and the Earth as per google is 380,000 km. So, Saitama was susceptible to friction only in 1/3800th of the way to the Moon. What about the other 3800th (379,900 km) of the whole distance to the Moon that doesn't have any friction? Boros's energy is useless in there and it can't reduce something that doesn't exist, therefore it can't boost Saitama's speed via reducing friction, therefore your current bold statement is incorrect.

Boros' leg logically moved faster than the speed launched, so we could upscale to possible higher, or possibly SOL

We won't use this method most likely, The Moon kick was the result of super strength, not speed.
You'll need this method only if my downgrade proposal goes through. In that case you'll have to create a new fresh thread and propose it.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. My apologies if I misinterpreted the situation.

Should I ask some more staff members to evaluate this?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I don't see why not

 

[Antvasima]

@Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Andytrenom @Wokistan @MrKingOfNegativity @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @ByAsura

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this discussion please?

 

[Slacjow]

As I've said before, that's more indicative of super strength rather than super speed. It would only really apply of the series itself followed physics semi-consistently but it doesn't.

As for the rest of you.... what? How is one person disagreeing with a profile for a total of one and half pages something notable? I made 4 500 comment threads before to remove the old 7-B MHS+ BoS Genos scaling and that was far more radical that what Slac is proposing.

Did you see my latest reply to you, what do you think?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Slacjow's argument is based on him believing that Boros' energy only acts as a propulsive force for his own body, which isn't right. The existence of Boros' energy beams completely contradicts it, which is why I don't believe this thread needs to go on.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Did you see my latest reply to you, what do you think?

If we're doing the leg thing then Boros would be kicking Saitama at like 0.99c due to relativistic mass increase slowing him down.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

can I get a quick rundown of what I'm being asked to evaluate? I'd rather not parse through two pages to get the gist of this.

 

[Qawsedf234]

can I get a quick rundown of what I'm being asked to evaluate?

These two comments basically sum up everything: 1 2

 

[Slacjow]

Slacjow's argument is based on him believing that Boros' energy only acts as a propulsive force for his own body, which isn't right. The existence of Boros' energy beams completely contradicts it, which is why I don't believe this thread needs to go on.

I believe in what was stated in the manga and author.
I don't add my own interpretation.
I don't know how the existence of Boros's enregy beams support your opinion though, elaborate.

If we're doing the leg thing then Boros would be kicking Saitama at like 0.99c due to relativistic mass increase slowing him down.

We probably won't do that, especially in this thread. This one is about the energy moving stuff. If someone wishes to do a leg thing they can create a fresh CRT.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Because his beams are logically the same energy, and therefore, he can use his energy to propel other people. Unless you want to claim his beams only apply a frictionless affect to what they hit.

Also, stop with this "I believe in what the author says" stuff. What you're doing is purposefully choosing to only use part of what the story/author says, even when it gets contradicted. It states he uses his energy as a propulsive force. It ALSO states he used his energy to remove friction. You can't just dismiss one statement because it doesn't fit your point.

 

[Slacjow]

Because his beams are logically the same energy, and therefore, he can use his energy to propel other people.

What do his energy beams have to do with the speed discussion we are having? How do those beams prove that Boros can be scaled to near-light speed? I don't see a correlation, you didn't answer my reply with this.
You said " The existence of Boros' energy beams completely contradicts it" , there's no connection between Boros's energy beams and what we are discussing in here, speed.
I don't see any consistency in what you are talking about.

Unless you want to claim his beams only apply a frictionless affect to what they hit.

His "energy beams" don't have any properties so far. But if you are referring to his energy then yes, it only reduces the friction, everything else is your addition to the story, aka non canon.
You can't prove his energy moves things at SOL, I already debunked it many times in here.
The sad thing with this whole discussion is that I am trying to debunk something that doesn't exist, the CRT should've been you actually trying to prove that his energy moves things.

It states he uses his energy as a propulsive force.

I never denied it, his energy is a propulsive force for Boros.

It ALSO states he used his energy to remove friction.

I never denied that either.

You can't just dismiss one statement because it doesn't fit your point.

I never dismissed any official statements, don't lie.
If I did dismiss official statements, quote those statements and prove how I dismissed those.

I think so far I have given enough proof to remove the current justification and the speed rating.

 

[Axxtentacle]

You are literally cherry picking the statements you take at face value. It states he uses his energy as a propulsive force, not just for his body. That's your interpretation which is backed by virtually nothing.

The beams prove it because they're the same energy, they blatantly prove that he can use his energy to affect others, there's no reason to say he can't use his energy as a propulsive force on others when that's very blatantly portrayed.

There is a discussion between his energy beam and speed. It's the fact that he uses the same energy for his beams as he does to amplify himself. The beams clearly have physical force to them, meaning he can propel things with his beams. The scene where he kicks leads me to believe he even used a beam to do this, as we see the same "aura" on him that we did the other times he used beams.

Your point is the equivalent of saying that a sword can't be used to stab someone because it's stated to cut things.

 

[Antvasima]

Axxtentacle seems to make good points to me. What do you think Qawsedf234?

 

[Slacjow]

You are literally cherry picking the statements you take at face value. It states he uses his energy as a propulsive force, not just for his body. That's your interpretation which is backed by virtually nothing.

Excuse me? You are the one who have to prove that his energy speeds up other things its wrapped in to near SOL. Why are you acting like it's blatantly stated and I have to disprove it?

The beams prove it because they're the same energy, they blatantly prove that he can use his energy to affect others, there's no reason to say he can't use his energy as a propulsive force on others when that's very blatantly portrayed.

How? Elaborate, explain everything you said right now.

There is a discussion between his energy beam and speed. It's the fact that he uses the same energy for his beams as he does to amplify himself. The beams clearly have physical force to them, meaning he can propel things with his beams. The scene where he kicks leads me to believe he even used a beam to do this, as we see the same "aura" on him that we did the other times he used beams.

And what is the proof that the energy he coats Saitama in speeds him to near SOL? He didn't use a beam to send Saitama to the Moon, it was the energy Murata put on Saitama intentionally to reduce friction so that Saitama's clothes don't burn in the atmosphere, it's literally stated. The energy didn't boost Saitama, nowhere stated, nowhere implied.

I am tired repeating the same old arguments. The whole reason he got Relativistic+ via Energy is using a statement about friction out of context.
Nowhere is it stated that Boros's energy moves things at near SOL, why no one has ever linked that statement?

This discussion is just ridiculous, it's me trying to disprove something that doesn't exist because a fan doesn't want a downgrade.
I would appreciate if we had staff members here, unbiased, maybe then we could debate.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Excuse me? You are the one who have to prove that his energy speeds up other things its wrapped in to near SOL. Why are you acting like it's blatantly stated and I have to disprove it?

The kick was calced to move him at Relativistic+ speeds, and the manga blatantly shows that he kicked and there was energy used there in a similar manner to how he shoots his beams. I never claimed the energy itself speeds other things up, and i've already told you this before. Stop strawmanning and stonewalling.

How? Elaborate, explain everything you said right now.

I already did, in the comment you ignored after the thread got reopened.

And what is the proof that the energy he coats Saitama in speeds him to near SOL? He didn't use a beam to send Saitama to the Moon, it was the energy Murata put on Saitama intentionally to reduce friction so that Saitama's clothes don't burn in the atmosphere, it's literally stated. The energy didn't boost Saitama, nowhere stated, nowhere implied.

The calculation that came up with Rel+. It's literally stated that his energy is used as a propulsive force, AND it's stated that he did it to reduce friction. It doesn't have to be one way or the other, it can be both, which is the most likely scenario here.

I am tired repeating the same old arguments. The whole reason he got Relativistic+ via Energy is using a statement about friction out of context.
Nowhere is it stated that Boros's energy moves things at near SOL, why no one has ever linked that statement?

Stop strawmanning. Nobody is claiming that Boros' energy itself moves things at near SOL, that's completely you misrepresenting the arguments. The kick done by a powered up Boros, using the energy to power himself up, moved Saitama at Rel+ speeds. We additionally see the aura he has when he shoots a beams as he kicks Saitama. The Author's statement doesn't say he ONLY uses the energy to remove friction, that's an unwarranted assumption.

This discussion is just ridiculous, it's me trying to disprove something that doesn't exist because a fan doesn't want a downgrade.
I would appreciate if we had staff members here, unbiased, maybe then we could debate.

No, you're literally not disproving anything. You're strawmanning, asking me to repeat points I already made which you ignored, and claiming bias.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I seriously don't see this thread going anywhere. He's ignoring points then asking me to repeat them, he's misrepresenting my points, and taking the 2 statements like it has to be one way or the other, and claiming i'm just some "fan" in order to dismiss me.

 

[Antvasima]

@Qawsedf234 @Mr._Bambu

Would you be willing to help out with evaluating their arguments please?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Would you be willing to help out with evaluating their arguments please?

I already said that Slac is right. There's no hard evidence that Boros' aura moves him Rel+ speeds. Personally I think the secondary evidence is enough, but its admittedly weak and as Slac has shown a lot of it can be considered baseless to the point where presenting it as straightforward isn't a good idea.

The part where I'd disagree with him is that we would need a new CRT for Boros' speed. Everything can just be solved here without a new CRT.

If we're keeping Rel+ it's because we're using Saitama's launch speed as Boros' attacking speed. If we aren't keeping it Boros drops to Sub-Rel, possibly Rel like in his secondary key (well like his secondary key when the new Garou thing is applied).

 

[USklaverei]

So, I hadn't seen Uragik answer me, and I asked if Boros kicking Saitama at that speed would make him increase his speed, and he said no, but because he thought Boros didn't just do it with his leg, but, according to him, he it is clearly relativistic.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

this is a very weird thread to read, but having tried to piece together what I can...

so this is basically just removing Boros' justification, but not denying the fact that he does indeed move at that speed, correct? If that's the case, I personally find implicit evidence (from my understanding) to be fine enough, but I don't think it actually harms the profile if people really must remove it as they feel it is too far removed from explicit things. So I have no issue with the revision, I guess?

 

[Qawsedf234]

so this is basically just removing Boros' justification, but not denying the fact that he does indeed move at that speed, correct?

Slac is saying the kick is a strength feat. Meaning the entire speed rating would be removed and replaced with something else.

Though apparently I guess just "Kicks someone at near-lightspeed" might be good enough to keep the rating with a change in wording going by USk.

 

[USklaverei]

We can put something like (Kicked Saitama to the moon close to the speed of light, as he did with only one leg, his combat speed must be close to or even greater than that)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean if the kick moves at said speed I don't see why it would require a removal of the rating, even if we also take it to be a Strength feat.

 

[Slacjow]

Though apparently I guess just "Kicks someone at near-lightspeed" might be good enough to keep the rating with a change in wording going by USk.

I mean if the kick moves at said speed I don't see why it would require a removal of the rating, even if we also take it to be a Strength feat.

I agree with this only if make it exclusive to the Moon Kick and not his overall speed.

I don't feel like it's a good idea to scale Boros's Regular speed to the Moon kick he performed only once, which is also more of a strength feat than a speed feat.
And it's visibly his best striking/speed feat in the manga that was performed only once, nothing of this magnitude was ever displayed by him later.

1. It is the only kick that created an energy orb around both Boros and Saitama indicating that kick released more energy than his regular punches.
If we can use anime as supporting evidence, the Moon Kick was charged, created the same energy field around both Saitama and Boros and released massive lightning.
This further supports the fact that it's much more impressive than his other kicks and punches, meaning he can't move his legs or hands at that speed all the time, at least we don't have feats or statements that support it.
2. Boros was visibly out of breath, meaning the kick exhausted him. He stood and started fighting Saitama after this but non of his attacks even phased Saitama or created energy fields and lightning.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Boros was visibly out of breath,

I disagree with this one, as this one is more to show how using meteoric burst takes a toll on his body and is not about the moon kick itself.

 

[Slacjow]

I disagree with this one, as this one is more to show how using meteoric burst takes a toll on his body and is not about the moon kick itself.

I partially agree, I mean, after he entered MB, he performed only two moves, one punch and one Moon Kick.
It makes me to believe that the Moon Kick was the one that exhausted him seeing how it's portrayed as a better feat. It might've also been the combination of both of those attacks, still my points stands.

We can't seriously give a character an overall speed just because of a single strength/speed feat that exceeds everything he's ever done. It would be more fair to limit that speed to one attack, as per my points higher.

 

[Kin201]

I mean if he implied that he wasn't going all out when he kicked Saitama to the moon. Isn't it possible that he can be faster and stronger than even the moon kick, considering he knew that the moon kick didn't even faze Saitama? You're telling me that he was desperately attacking Saitama after he returned to Earth?

 

[Slacjow]

I mean if he implied that he wasn't going all out when he kicked Saitama to the moon. Isn't it possible that he can be faster and stronger than even the moon kick, considering he knew that the moon kick didn't even faze Saitama? You're telling me that he was desperately attacking Saitama after he returned to Earth?

He never implied or stated that he wasn't serious against Saitama, and if he wasn't serious he wouldn't have been out of breath.

 

[Kin201]

He did. He said "This guy makes me wanna hit him with all I've got" right after Saitama returned to Earth, and then proceeded to attack him.

 

[Slacjow]

He did. He said "This guy makes me wanna hit him with all I've got" right after Saitama returned to Earth, and then proceeded to attack him.

That doesn't mean the Moon kick before wasn't serious. Boros here is just admiring his strength and is saying how he wants to go all out against him.
So, if someone says "I want to fight this opponent with all I've got", doesn't mean he wasn't fighting serious before, its just that he so happens to say it in that moment.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with what Qawsedf234 and Mr._Bambu decide that we should do here.

Thank you for helping out.

 

[USklaverei]

We can put something like (Kicked Saitama to the moon close to the speed of light, as he did with only one leg, his combat speed must be close to or even greater than that)

Uragik agreed with that

 

[Slacjow]

^Ugarik might've agreed that the method is scientifically accurate, and no doubt to that but there's a context behind Boros's feat.
I think we should wait for Bambu and Qawsed to respond to my reply, if they still think it's fine to use this method for scaling Boros's overall speed then you can apply it.

 

[USklaverei]

it's all right

 

[Qawsedf234]

That doesn't mean the Moon kick before wasn't serious

It was serious, Kin is just saying that it wasn't him going 100%. Not going all out isn't the same as holding back.

 

[Slacjow]

It was serious, Kin is just saying that it wasn't him going 100%. Not going all out isn't the same as holding back.

What I wanted to say was that the Moon Kick was his most powerful kick he put all his strength into, at least that's how I see it, considering it's his best physical feat.

What do you think about this:

I agree with this only if make it exclusive to the Moon Kick and not his overall speed.

I don't feel like it's a good idea to scale Boros's Regular speed to the Moon kick he performed only once, which is also more of a strength feat than a speed feat.
And it's visibly his best striking/speed feat in the manga that was performed only once, nothing of this magnitude was ever displayed by him later.

1. It is the only kick that created an energy orb around both Boros and Saitama indicating that kick released more energy than his regular punches.
If we can use anime as supporting evidence, the Moon Kick was charged, created the same energy field around both Saitama and Boros and released massive lightning.
This further supports the fact that it's much more impressive than his other kicks and punches, meaning he can't move his legs or hands at that speed all the time, at least we don't have feats or statements that support it.
2. Boros was visibly out of breath, meaning the kick exhausted him. He stood and started fighting Saitama after this but non of his attacks even phased Saitama or created energy fields and lightning.

We can't seriously give a character an overall speed just because of a single strength/speed feat that exceeds everything he's ever done. It would be more fair to limit that speed to one attack, as per my points higher.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I personally believe (again, from my limited perspective of only having the information of this thread and never having touched the manga/anime/ln/vn/whatever) that the speed of the kick is fine enough to use for the character overall.