Immeasurable Speed Sonic, time to PERISH

[Duedate8898]

This is an argument from ignorance, because it's literally show in the game Chaos Control time travel works by creating a portal, therefore this would be straight up incorrect

About your second paragraph you are straight up not understading what is being argued in the favor side, Sonic and company are constantly travelling in time during the fight because they need to hit him in all time periods and I still don't understand your obssesion with temporal dimensions if that was never an argument

Solaris attacks being temporal onmipresent means that a finite speed character would always be hit by it, Sonic not being hit is proof of immesurable, you are literally not understading how this works

There's no circular debating, we argued for two posts, but hopefully Greenshifter's post makes you understand better

I would also like to mention that we're not shown how they got to the past and future. All they did was fly up together into the ball of white light where they battle Solaris, so once again, instead of just assuming they started traveling time through a means in which they've never done before (unless there are other instances that can be provided) then it seems most plausible that they did it through the normal means.

The hedgehogs didn't exist on the battlefield before Solaris formed the rift so at the moment of the beginning of the fight they have no past and they stay in that moment due to immeasurable speed, otherwise as you said, they'd get hit.

Yes they do have a past. And we're also ignoring that they have a future as well. As long as they are ever in those spaces, at any point in time in that fight, they will get hit if the meteor's path ever crosses over it.

 

[Greenshifter]

Yes they do have a past. And we're also ignoring that they have a future as well. As long as they are ever in those spaces, at any point in time in that fight, they will get hit if the meteor's path ever crosses over it.

They don't have a past version of themselves in that rift (where Solaris fights them) the moment that the fight starts (and even if they did I think User's argument of being able to react after you've been hit is possible for immeasurable speed beings) and they only have a future in that rift without immeasurable speed (since time needs to pass to have a future version of yourself), which as you said would mean they get hit regardless, thus the only option for the hedgehogs to defeat Solaris is immeasurable speed.

Also even if they had acausality type 2 then Solaris would know where the hedgehogs currently are and shoot his meteor in their direction, which as you said would make it undodgeable.

 

[Theuser789]

I would also like to mention that we're not shown how they got to the past and future. All they did was fly up together into the ball of white light where they battle Solaris, so once again, instead of just assuming they started traveling time through a means in which they've never done before (unless there are other instances that can be provided) then it seems most plausible that they did

You are the one assuming they used an ability in a way they never done IN THE SAME GAME, Mephiles does it via portal, double Chaos Control creates a portal, but we are supposed to assume they used it completely different way JUST for the sake of lowballing, not because it makes sense, not because it's consistant, but JUST to lowball because they can't be fast, plus it was already explained IN THIS THREAD why this is the only immesurable feat and Sonic has time travelled via running in CD and Generations, those aren't even immesurable feats because of other circunstances

Stop making arguments like this when you barely know the franchise you are arguing against, the same game debunks your points, and stop arguing for lowball's sake

 

[Rikimarox2]

All right my drawing is finished.

=D

Picasso has nothing on this

 

[Greenshifter]

=D

Picasso has nothing on this

It's more abstract than his stuff. Not even joking since temporal omnipresence is abstract AF.

 

[Theuser789]

Look, Sonic 06 portrays Chaos Control as portals in total of:

3 times via Mephiles (When bringing Silver to the past, Shadow to the future and fleeing)

1 time via Eggman's machine

A total of 4 times via double Chaos Control portal

This is a total of eight times, and we are supposed to argue they used this an ability in a different way in the same game just because?

 

[Duedate8898]

They don't have a past version of themselves in that rift (where Solaris fights them) the moment that the fight starts (and even if they did I think User's argument of being able to react after you've been hit is possible for immeasurable speed beings) and they only have a future in that rift without immeasurable speed (since time needs to pass to have a future version of yourself), which as you said would mean they get hit regardless, thus the only option for the hedgehogs to defeat Solaris is immeasurable speed.

The fault in User's argument is that they are not shown reacting after getting hit and then avoiding any form of damage, they either don't get hit in the fight or get hit. Nothing else.

And sure, they weren't there before, so they didn't have a past there, but once they got there they had a past there. And as long as they inhabit that space, they will also have past and future there. Immeasurable speed doesn't mean you don't create a future, I don't know where this idea comes from but its wrong. And another thing is, they're still located within time. So yes, they're making a past and future even if they have immeasurable speed.

You are the one assuming they used an ability in a way they never done IN THE SAME GAME, Mephiles does it via portal, double Chaos Control creates a portal, but we are supposed to assume they used it completely different way JUST for the sake of lowballing, not because it makes sense, not because it's consistant, but JUST to lowball because they can't be fast, plus it was already explained IN THIS THREAD why this is the only immesurable feat and Sonic has time travelled via running in CD and Generations, those aren't even immesurable feats because of other circunstances

Stop making arguments like this when you barely know the franchise you are arguing against, the same game debunks your points, and stop arguing for lowball's sake

In Sonic CD, Sonic uses Time Warp signs, not just speed to travel through time. So yeah, it's not an immeasurable feat, don't know why you're bringing it up. So it's not pertinent to this discussion. Generations, they don't time travel without the active help of Time Eater so also not pertinent to this discussion. And they got to Solaris off screen, so just saying they traveled through Time with sheer speed is a bigger assumption then saying they used a known means (especially since they had the Chaos Emeralds at the time). Once again, we never see how they all arrive to those separate points in time in the final fight so it seems like we should just assume they did so through the means that we've been shown before.

And I'm not arguing just for the sake of lowballing, I'm arguing because the evidence that's been provided is poor. And until you find something I think is solid, I'm going to disagree.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

In Sonic CD, Sonic uses Time Warp signs, not just speed to travel through time. So yeah, it's not an immeasurable feat, don't know why you're bringing it up. So it's not pertinent to this discussion. Generations, they don't time travel without the active help of Time Eater so also not pertinent to this discussion. And they got to Solaris off screen, so just saying they traveled through Time with sheer speed is a bigger assumption then saying they used a known means (especially since they had the Chaos Emeralds at the time). Once again, we never see how they all arrive to those separate points in time in the final fight so it seems like we should just assume they did so through the means that we've been shown before.

And I'm not arguing just for the sake of lowballing, I'm arguing because the evidence that's been provided is poor. And until you find something I think is solid, I'm going to disagree.

Why are you just assuming they made a portal to get there when that was never implied anywhere in neither the game, dialouge or manual that they used portals just for the sake of lowballing the feat? Normally, the most logical assumption of just seeing them flying to the area would be... that they flied to the area, by themselves. The reason why your portal argument doesn't work is because what you are suggestion was never even remotely implied to be the case

The portals were also a result of them using Chaos Control in Sonic 06, and in no part in the story it was mentioned they needed to use the ability to reach Solaris's area, we also never see them do it, and we never hear commentary that they did it from other characters

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Here’s the deal with Solaris’s attacks. If they exist in the past, present, and future, they would be impossible to dodge conventionally. If we take Sonic for example and he’s in the present, even if he dodges the attack there, as the attack is also in the past, Sonic would have still been in that position in the past, therefore he would’ve gotten hit. Sonic can only get around this is he has the means to dodge it at all points in time. No finite speed value would allow for dodging the attack as they are limited by time passing in a linear fashion, from past to present to future. The only speed value that can accomplish this is one that doesn’t abide by this rule, and that is immeasurable.

 

[Theuser789]

And until you find something I think is solid, I'm going to disagree.

Honestly and no offense intender but what your standards for these feats are pretty fricking bad, you very clearly have show you you don't know the series or immesurable based on the arguments, staff or not staff

I literally said they weren't immesurable feats and why I brought them, to show this happened before, basic reading comprehension, also ANOTHER objectively incorrect fact, Sonic restoring time and space is ALL him, STOP making claims about shit you DON'T KNOW

And they got to Solaris off screen, so just saying they traveled through Time with sheer speed is a bigger assumption then saying they used a known means (especially since they had the Chaos Emeralds at the time). Once again, we never see how they all arrive to those separate points in time in the final fight so it seems like we should just assume they did so through the means that we've been shown before.

You are literally making the biggest assumption of them all that Sonic used this ability in a completely different way with 0 proof when Sonic uses it 8 times in a completely different way, your assumption goes against EVERYTHING, the plot, the characters, how a power works, yet you dare to say MINE is the biggest assumption? Bullcrap, my assumption is just pointing out what we are seeing on screen, yours is literally making shit up because immesurable is a "high" feat and we MUST lowball and make literal excuses because a character cannot have a high feat unless it does several times or the person likes the series

Your evidence is the poor one, based on logical fallacies nonstop, sheer ignorance of what you are arguing and gigantic amounts of projection, you keep making stuff up on what's immesurable to the point of making up character actions to fit your headcanon

 

[Duedate8898]

Honestly and no offense intender but what your standards for these feats are pretty fricking bad, you very clearly have show you you don't know the series or immesurable based on the arguments, staff or not staff

I literally said they weren't immesurable feats and why I brought them, to show this happened before, basic reading comprehension, also ANOTHER objectively incorrect fact, Sonic restoring time and space is ALL him, STOP making claims about shit you DON'T KNOW

Simply put, don't bring them up in that case. I responded to them, because you brought them up and in my response I said they're not important to the discussion as well.

You are literally making the biggest assumption of them all that Sonic used this ability in a completely different way with 0 proof when Sonic uses it 8 times in a completely different way, your assumption goes against EVERYTHING, the plot, the characters, how a power works, yet you dare to say MINE is the biggest assumption? Bullcrap, my assumption is just pointing out what we are seeing on screen, yours is literally making shit up because immesurable is a "high" feat and we MUST lowball and make literal excuses because a character cannot have a high feat unless it does several times or the person likes the series

Your evidence is the poor one, based on logical fallacies nonstop, sheer ignorance of what you are arguing and gigantic amounts of projection, you keep making stuff up on what's immesurable to the point of making up character actions to fit your headcanon

And my assumption is that since we didn't see them reach Solaris and travel through time on screen, that a previously none method of time travel that is should be accessible to them at the time is a valid means in which they did so. You have no instances before this of Sonic or the others time traveling through time with sheer speed (at least you have provided none), so there you are making the biggest assumption.

Also, here's my formal warning for you once again: stop the hostility.
At this point, you're starting back up again from the last thread we were in together. You've grown heated and have turned to attacking me, so I'd advise you to pause for a bit and come back later. Next time, you will be reported.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

And my assumption is that since we didn't see them reach Solaris and travel through time on screen, that a previously none method of time travel that is should be accessible to them at the time is a valid means in which they did so. You have no instances before this of Sonic or the others time traveling through time with sheer speed (at least you have provided none), so there you are making the biggest assumption.

Your assumption still doesn't work because nothing in the game suggest they used it, or needed to use this in the slightest, not a single word or referrence in the entirety of the story, nor the dialogue or the manual for the game suggested in the slightest that the three hedgehogs needed to use these portals to reach Solaris's area. You are basically assuming stuff out of thin air, while providing no evidence to support your claims. You want to prove Sonic used some elaborate ability during the cutscene they traveled to Solaris's area? Then prove it. Like show actual links, pieces of dialouges that support your claims and screenshots from the manual. Until then, it takes far less assumptions just to assume they flew to there. Simple as that

When the Hedgehogs fly toward Solaris's area, they were just flying, not using any abilities whatsoever to get to the area, and nothing in the entire boss fight even remotely mentioned they used it to get to Solaris. Even while in the intersection before they fought Solaris, nothing in their dialouge suggest they would need any special ability to reach that area

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Not even sure why there’s arguing about a supposed portal being used to get to Solaris when the dynamics of the fight itself is what suggests immeasurable speed.

 

[Duedate8898]

Your assumption still doesn't work because nothing in the game suggest they used it, or needed to use this in the slightest, not a single word or referrence in the entirety of the story, nor the dialogue or the manual for the game suggested in the slightest that the three hedgehogs needed to use these portals to reach Solaris's area. You are basically assuming stuff out of thin air, while providing no evidence to support your claims. You want to prove Sonic used some elaborate ability during the cutscene they traveled to Solaris's area? Then prove it. Like show actual links, pieces of dialouges that support your claims and screenshots from the manual. Until then, it takes far less assumptions just to assume they flew to there. Simple as that

When the Hedgehogs fly toward Solaris's area, they were just flying, not using any abilities whatsoever to get to the area, and nothing in the entire boss fight even remotely mentioned they used it to get to Solaris. Even while in the intersection before they fought Solaris, nothing in their dialouge suggest they would need any special ability to reach that area

I never said they did it during the cutscene. What I said was that we don't see how Silver and Shadow get to the past and future, we're never shown them actually getting there. So, since we don't see them ever actually traveling through time, we're going to have to assume something here.

I'm going with the assumption that they used an ability they all possess and items they are currently using to get to these points in time, because that's the only known means they currently have to time travel.

What evidence is there that Silver and Shadow just started moving through time with sheer speed to reach the past and the future? None has been provided.

Not even sure why there’s arguing about a supposed portal being used to get to Solaris when the dynamics of the fight itself is what suggests immeasurable speed.

They do not. I have said why in previous post.

 

[Arcker123]

Is there a video of the feat

 

[Theuser789]

Simply put, don't bring them up in that case. I responded to them, because you brought them up and in my response I said they're not important to the discussion as well.

I literally explained why it was relevant since it was debunking a direct point of yours

And my assumption is that since we didn't see them reach Solaris and travel through time on screen, that a previously none method of time travel that is should be accessible to them at the time is a valid means in which they did so. You have no instances before this of Sonic or the others time traveling through time with sheer speed (at least you have provided none), so there you are making the biggest assumption.

And this is why the previous point is important, because I did, then you said it was "irrelevant"

Even then Sonic not using it before doesn't mean anything, nor does give you permission to literally say Sonic used an ability with zero proof

Give proof that they used Chaos Control to open a portal, otherwise your point will ALWAYS be wrong, because we are arguing what we see on screen, not what ifs

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

They do not. I have said why in previous post.

You said it’s not immeasurable because Solaris’s attacks are shown moving across a distance, which sounds like a lack of understanding of how immeasurable speed works. From the perspective of an immeasurable speed character, objects that travel through time will appear as if they’re normal because time is just another direction they can travel in.

 

[Theuser789]

This, nobody is being hostile or attacking you by saying you lack knowelege, we are saying because you do lack the knowelege on what you are arguing making your posts worse in response, we are trying to help

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I'm going with the assumption that they used an ability they all possess and items they are currently using to get to these points in time, because that's the only known means they currently have to time travel.

Then show me evidence to them using that ability. This is the third time I request you to show evidence for your claims.

The Hedgehog trio flying by themselves with just speed is the safest thing to assume because this requires no extraordinary assumptions. We see the hedgehogs fly normally while not using any abilities to get into Solaris' area, and in no point in the game we see anyone saying that they needed any kind of elaborate ability to get to Solaris

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Duedate didn't multi-post; he was commenting on Elixer Blue's post, but I feel bad for Elixer tbh that he decided to remove all his posts. Also on a minor note, @ShadowWarrior1999 long time no see. It's good to see you again.

But anyway, back to the main topic at hand. I pretty much tried to debate on a general standpoint; the temporal omnipresent stuff was something for general cases; on fighting characters or dodging attacks that have temporal omnipresence. I still don't see how it qualifies as Immeasurable speed and that the general feat for it sounds more like other things. As for other details, Duedate pretty much said my thoughts on the matter mostly. I been trying to get more neutral staff which thankfully AKM Sama and Duedate contributed, but not many others despite the pings.

 

[Duedate8898]

I've said my piece and have personally grown exhausted of this thread. So, I will be taking a break and returning at some later time. Before I go however I will say this last thing:

This, nobody is being hostile or attacking you by saying you lack knowelege, we are saying because you do lack the knowelege on what you are arguing making your posts worse in response, we are trying to help

You spent an entire post actively yelling and telling me that I should just stop. That comes off only as hostile and you should know that, because I've warned you of this before. You don't have to apologize but at least own up to it.

 

[Theuser789]

Yeah, I told you to stop making objective claims about things you don't know, there's literally nothing wrong with that, I have made more edits and been here longer than you, all I am saying is that you should realize you don't know much about the topic and thus be more open minded, there's nothing to apologize, staff or no staff

I didn't yell lol, I only capitalized because I couldn't bold my words in mobile, chill

 

[Theuser789]

I still don't see how it qualifies as Immeasurable speed and that the general feat for it sounds more like other things.

I honestly only see type 2 acasuality if it's not immesurable, that's the only thing that could make sense, and I could settle for it if there was no other options, although I still disagree with it

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Type 2 acausality means not having a past or future, which wouldn’t fit at all in this scenario.

 

[Greenshifter]

Type 2 acausality means not having a past or future, which wouldn’t fit at all in this scenario.

Yeah see my drawing, present Sonic also get affected.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Sonic 06's plot's, as well as Sonic Generations' plot, directly contradict type 2 Acausality

 

[Mister6ame6]

Correct me if i wrong, but would giving the hedgehog trio acausality type 2 would make no sense? Sonic have a past in Sonic Generations, which means that acausality type 2 is contradicted

We don't have acausality specific for characters that are unaffected by changes in the past and future, which means a CTR for acausality would have to be made for that if Immeasurable speed is going to be nuked for the hedgehog trio

 

[Causalist]

If those exist, then they should be provided here.

We're in for a ride. Let's start with the base form feats.

https://media.**********.net/attachments/778763045622382623/780500148689305610/image0.jpg

This translates to "Time travel and move through the present, past and future. Sonic has finally surpassed the speed of sound and even time and it's barriers as well."
There are many possible outcomes to the translation of kanjis so here's another way you can translate it. "Time travel through the present, past and future. Sonic has finally surpassed the speed of sound and crossed the time barrier as well." Either way, this is a feat of immeasurable speed.

With enough acceleration, Sonic's boost creates a dimensional distortion that allows him to travel to a special stage. According the the Sonic cosmology page, special stages are seperate timelines, which mages this another immeasurable speed feat.

https://pm1.narvii.com/6877/321166b1a8a86af9cb62ec3a77a220cb9387f7aar1-795-756v2_hq.jpg

This isn't a one time thing either, as he infamously did the same thing in Forces by doing a "double boost" with the rookie who can't even boost to begin with. I believe the feat of breaking free from null space was mostly Sonic's doing, but even if it wasn't, half of immeasurable is still immeasurable.

Null Space is comfirmed to be sperate from all other dimensions in the Japanese dub of the game and Sonic even states that it goes on forever if that helps.

This one is an infinite speed feat rather than an immeasurable one, but it's still worth pointing out. Sonic travels through an infinite space in a finite time frame. https://pm1.narvii.com/6877/4fa030747a1a17b7c13ce14d52e0140f0e130b4ar1-750-930v2_hq.jpg
By the end of the same game, Sonic managed to return to his home dimension by running.

Even more infamously, he restores erased time by running fast enough in Generations. The English version of this feat has good reasons not to be accepted, but I'm not sure how many people are aware that the Japanese version makes it clear that the Sonics are in fact doing that with raw speed.
(10:18)

For another infinite speed feat that's admittedly slightly more dubious than the previous one, Sonic moved in tandem with Shadow's instantaneous warp, somehow being able to see him move between his starting point and his arrival point despite that fact that it's teleportation. He even thought he was doing it with raw speed before realizing that it had to be teleportation.
(0:35)

Takashi Izuka also said in an interview that Sonic can achieve the speed of infinity or something along those lines, but I can find the interview for the life of me. I understand that it can't be used until I manage to find the link, but I swear I'm not making it up. It was an official translation.

Before I go into Super Sonic's feats, I'd like to point out that the number 1 reason the base form immeasurable speed feats aren't accepted is because he's usually threated as far inferior to his Super form so it wouldn't make sense for him to be able to replicate his Super form feats in base when his base form couldn't hold a candle to the Time Eater, Solaris and a few other beings of 4D power (although he did defeat Void, Erazor Jinn, and Imperator Ix in base, I still consider those outliers or instances of the vilain possibly using hax). All of that is to say that if Super Sonic's immeasurable speed ranking gets denied just because temporal omnipresence sandards were changed and that affected Solaris, then the base form feats suddenly become alot more important. Now let's look at the Super form feats.

Super Sonic could move normally in a dimension that constantly shifts time.

The timer is an indicator of the passage of time, so I don't see how they could make time being distorted any clearer than that.

Super Sonic was still able to move after Time Eaterms had erased time and space


Finally, can someone send me a link to the revision thread made to characters with temporal omnipresence? The only explenation for it that I saw is that characters with temporal omnipresence aren't necessarily Immeasurable in the same way that a character of a massive size isn't necessarily really fast. That comparison makes no sense. Large characters aren't necessarily fast because the basic laws of physics make it increasingly harder to move thier own mass the bigger they get. Solaris's time omnipresence is nothing like that. It's a state of being that allows him to basically see everything that has happened or will happen to him EVER from his own eyes. If Super Sonic didn't have immeasurable speed, he wouldn't even be able to interact with Solaris, let alone hit his core REPEATIDLY too quickly for Solaris to block his assault with a simple arm swing.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Acausality type 1 is more so, you can survive without a past and/or altered pasts don't harm or weaken your present your weakened self; not so much that you lack one at all. Same with Type 2, it just means your Future is not set in stone thus cannot be predicted through typical levels of precognition or controlled by Fate Manipulation. I should have clarified that sooner. But there's also some Acausality discussions planned by the looks of it...

Edit: I looked up the big list of Pepto's scans, and none of those are Immeasurable. It's just time travel/dimensional travel for some of those statements. The "Traveling through infinite space" I believe was brought up and considered hyperbolic not to mention it would be an outlier if base Sonic did that. And traveling through distorted space was agreed multiple times to not be infinite let alone immeasurable. We also avoid interview statements if they're prone to hyperboles and authors intent conflictions.

 

[Theuser789]

Type 2 acausality means not having a past or future, which wouldn’t fit at all in this scenario.

True, but that's the only other thing that would justify finite speed, since staff seem adamant to say "it doesn't meet the standards", even though they themselves don't seem to have one, since all of them are arguing different things

 

[Greenshifter]

Same with Type 2

Incorrect, with type 2 you explicitly lack a past or present. Alien X who has no preferred reference point for which version of Ben transforms into him says hi (he’s the guy on the acausality page at type 2). Hunter Zolomon who exists in a single moment of time says even more hi (even though he doesn’t have acausality yet)

 

[Theuser789]

Acausality type 1 is more so, you can survive without a past and/or altered pasts don't harm or weaken your present your weakened self; not so much that you lack one at all. Same with Type 2, it just means your Future is not set in stone thus cannot be predicted through typical levels of precognition or controlled by Fate Manipulation. I should have clarified that sooner. But there's also some Acausality discussions planned by the looks of it...

More revisions? This way we are never reaching a conclusions people can accept it...

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Lacking a past or future does qualify as type 2, but so does simply having the ability to be unaffected by changes in the past or future. But yes, I'm afraid there appears to be too much going on all at once, and I agree that this isn't going to end anytime soon... We should probably post pone this thread for now since it keeps going all over the place.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Until those "acausality revisions" happen, we can continue this one. Hell, are we even sure what those revisions are?

 

[Arcker123]

but so does simply having the ability to be unaffected by changes in the past or future

Isn’t this just type 1

 

[Mister6ame6]

Isn’t this just type 1

Nope that is type 1 Acausality:

Type 1: Time Paradox Immunity: Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes, but remain just as vulnerable in the present and can be affected by normal Causality Manipulation and similar abilities.

And also going to mention that Type 2 don't cover being unaffected by changes in the past and future:

Type 2: Temporal Singularity: Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present. This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past, while also making them resistant to Precognition that works by viewing the future, as they do not exist within it, and Fate Manipulation, for the same reason. In essence, they are able to choose their own fates, but they remain just as vulnerable at the point in time in which they do exist.

A CTR will have to made if we are going to nuke Immeasurable speed for the hedgehog trio regardless.

 

[Greenshifter]

not so much that you lack one at all. Same with Type 2

Type 2: Temporal Singularity: Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present.

I mean that quite literally contradicts the page DDM, I doubt this is gonna be changed by literally any revision ever.

 

[ShrekAnakin]

Can someone give me a quick tldr with Acasuality on Hedgehogs? I saw someone bring up issues with type 2 already, but what are counters against the other types.

 

[Causalist]

Acausality type 1 is more so, you can survive without a past and/or altered pasts don't harm or weaken your present your weakened self; not so much that you lack one at all. Same with Type 2, it just means your Future is not set in stone thus cannot be predicted through typical levels of precognition or controlled by Fate Manipulation. I should have clarified that sooner. But there's also some Acausality discussions planned by the looks of it...

Edit: I looked up the big list of Pepto's scans, and none of those are Immeasurable. It's just time travel/dimensional travel for some of those statements. The "Traveling through infinite space" I believe was brought up and considered hyperbolic not to mention it would be an outlier if base Sonic did that. And traveling through distorted space was agreed multiple times to not be infinite let alone immeasurable. We also avoid interview statements if they're prone to hyperboles and authors intent conflictions.

I disagree with the idea that Sonic's dimensional travel is just hax for many reasons, but I won't open that can of worms unless it's absolutely necessary because this thread is already complex enough as it is. Why is the distorted time feat not acceptable? It's really similar to the Solaris feat in the sense that it'should only possible with type 2 acausality or immeasurable speed. Generations debunked type 2 acausality being a thing, so it has to be immeasurable. Also, what about the other feats I mentionned?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This is still derailment, and their may still be a discussion. There may be clarified context and it actually was discussed and pretty much agreed with other staff members on a High-Godly regeneration thread for instance when people were confusing with Type 2 Acausality. And there just might be a new category for Temporal nonexistence.

@Peptocoptr27 we just had a bunch of long discussions about what Immeasurable speed is, and we had countless discussions about why none of that apply as Infinite or Immeasurable. All Timeless voids feats were axed last year for similar reasons. But this isn't the place to discuss all of that all at once.