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1) useless against temporal omnipresent beings like 2. (Base Sonic already has it though)
3) Sonic isn’t Solaris nor Lavos
4) Too broken and probably irrelevant
5) Yeah no
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Immeasurable Speed Sonic, time to PERISH
- Thread starter liluzivert
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3) Sonic isn’t Solaris nor Lavos
4) Too broken and probably irrelevant
5) Yeah no
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Except you also ignored some feats about moving in tandem with teleportion and breaking the time barrier. Not only are timeless void feats in need of a revision, but the feat about distorted time isn't even a timeless void. Time does exist in that dimension, it's just unstable and constantly switching between time periods. This is simply irrelevant to Super Sonic because characters with immeasurable speed can just travel through time in an instant like any other direction
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Moving in a Tandem with teleportation is not infinite, and breaking the time barrier is not Immeasurable either. People are just going to say "You're beating a dead horse" if we're going back to the Timeless voids feats. You could try making another thread for that, but doubt it's going to get. Also, Time Travel is a very fast ability with a lot of methods and there's a huge project that's removing Immeasurable speed from a lot of characters; simple time travel is not enough for Immeasurable; reason Pre-Crisis Superman is getting downgraded. Also, the character needs to specifically be faster than instant to be Immeasurable; not just instant.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Sonic's immeasurable feats doesn't come from Time Travel though, so this argument is moot anyways.
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Unstable space-time is not an immeasurable speed feat. At most it would make the character resistant to space-time manipulation. That’s enough going off-topic though.
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It's not just unstable. It leaps from one time period to another. Constantly switching between past, future and anything in between (since the creation of the realm itself obviously)
MysticMania
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Hey there. So, this is my first time commenting on this thread, and really VS Battles as a whole mostly, but I've been keeping watch of this one in particular for a while.
I genuinely really enjoy VS Debating, and I'd say Sonic is one of the franchises I'm most familiar with ( with JoJo being my other one ), VS wise. I'm sorry if I shouldn't be asking this, but essentially, the game Super forms would be immeasurable due to dodging attacks that should be hitting them at every point in time, all at once, I think?
I genuinely really enjoy VS Debating, and I'd say Sonic is one of the franchises I'm most familiar with ( with JoJo being my other one ), VS wise. I'm sorry if I shouldn't be asking this, but essentially, the game Super forms would be immeasurable due to dodging attacks that should be hitting them at every point in time, all at once, I think?
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Yeah
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Also, how is moving in tandem with teleportion not infinite speed? He saw Shadow move between point A and point B even though by definition, he should have arrived at point B in a litteral instant. Sonic saw and moved in tandem with something that happened instantly
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Because teleportation is instantaneous, and an instant is a measure of time greater than zero.
And that is what is currently up for debate. I've said previously that even immeasurable speed wouldn't allow you to avoid omnipresent attacks of this vein because if one was to ever intersect with that space at any point in time, as they would be even with immeasurable speed, you'd still be hit.
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I mean they can just finish the job before a non-immeasurable speed Solaris moves right. If Solaris scales then I don’t think this changes anything since his attacks would be faster than the causality of his temporal omnipresence. They’d essentially fight him each in a single point of time (or multiple but not by time passing, but rather physically moving to another point of time) and the effect of them intersecting with a space where Solaris’ attacks crossed would only take place after the fight is over. At which point it doesn’t matter anymore since the rift is gone.
Also for the record how do you believe the hedgehogs defeated Solaris? Since we already addressed acausality type 2 with finite speed not being enough and outranging Solaris is contradicted by the guide, gameplay and probably even the cutscene before the fight.
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The issue is, even if Solaris is also immeasurable, as long as their attacks are considered temporally omnipresent the issue I bring up still stands. There would be no way for them not to get hit, unless the hedgehogs somehow never intersect any of these spaces.
They have no way to avoid getting hit.
They have no way to avoid getting hit.
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The blue meteors I drew only instantly appear tho. And as you said in this thread, instant is still a measure of time, with immeasurable being able to blitz instantaneous stuff as said by DDM earlier in this thread.
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You also avoided Greenshifter's question, what is the solution you propose for this thread?
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The opposing side has the biggest bruh moment arguments that I've ever seen 
. They don’t even sound like they know what immeasurable speed means. No surprise considering the wiki doesn’t even know what inaccessible is and defines "instant" as a qualification for infinite speed. I'm very tempted to join everyone else and yeet myself from the wiki.
. They don’t even sound like they know what immeasurable speed means. No surprise considering the wiki doesn’t even know what inaccessible is and defines "instant" as a qualification for infinite speed. I'm very tempted to join everyone else and yeet myself from the wiki.
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On what side of the argument are you?The opposing side has the biggest bruh moment arguments that I've ever seen
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I gave a look at this after leaving the wiki, but I feel like this I just too much
If I can be honest, it seems like the against side is completely ignoring the arguments of the pro side as Theuser and other people pointed out before in this thread. This already tells me everything
I'm still on the pro side
If I can be honest, it seems like the against side is completely ignoring the arguments of the pro side as Theuser and other people pointed out before in this thread. This already tells me everything
I'm still on the pro side
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Ok, sorry to butt in as I haven't read all the thread, but Super Sonic is 2006 is amped right? If he is, immeasurable isn't an outlier
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I don't really see him being amped per se.
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As his own page points out, he was amped by positive energy or something. If he wasn't, the feat would be just an outlier, as a single immeasurable feat with his next best being like FTL+
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@Da_Lunge_Fish We haven’t even gotten to the outlier argument. Opposition is saying that to dodge a temporal omnipresent beings’ temporal omnipresent attacks you don’t need immeasurable speed and that immeasurable speed is useless to dodge those type of attacks.
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Super Sonic has a variable tier, this is just the upper echelon of his power.
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Except, why variable? There needs to be a purpose of being variable, not just to hide outliers.
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His next best feat being FTL+ already makes it an outlier. The difference is too high
Arcker123
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This is arbitrary, at what point does this difference become too high (Also they have MFTL feats iirc)
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Because the amount of power one can draw from the Chaos Emeralds depends on their aptitude, thoughts, and emotions. Strong aptitude along with positive emotions will draw out the most power.
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This is just a biased and such an incorrect take that makes you say automatically wrong
Can we stop derrailing every single time the pro side makes any progress in the thread?
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I avoided it because it wasn't in there when I originally responded. But to answer that, I will actually say that in the end it sounds like these attacks aren't temporally omnipresent.
The hedgehogs clearly have a past and a future (sonic for sure at least, the others could potentially but that honestly sounds like reaching), so Type 2 isn't plausible to define this for at least one of the parties involved.
Immeasurable also fails because if the attacks are truly omnipresent throughout all of time, well I'm just repeating myself at this point
In all honesty, I just think Solaris on-screen showings are just too confusing to have anything really awarded to it.
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They are temporaly onmipresent through time, it's stated Solaris is by several characters, it's a major plot point, you are only arguing this because you realize immesurable is the best option, so you have to deny an on screen fact
As I said Solaris exists in all of time because of his physiology, his attacks (the lasers) are attached to him, therefore they are onmipresent through time
As I said Solaris exists in all of time because of his physiology, his attacks (the lasers) are attached to him, therefore they are onmipresent through time
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You do know that Solaris has the capacity to make his attacks temporally omnipresent by attacking in every point in time simultaneously right? AKM’s one and only counter to this was PIS/CIS, despite Solaris being composed of Mephiles, who is a genius and is known for making optimal moves. None of this even touches upon gameplay.
We have also adressed your argument of Solaris’ attacks being undodgeable for people with immeasurable speed several times now. It’s time to explain why our interpretation is supposedly wrong.
We have also adressed your argument of Solaris’ attacks being undodgeable for people with immeasurable speed several times now. It’s time to explain why our interpretation is supposedly wrong.
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No because immeasurable doesn't solve the problem. I don't know how many times I have to say this:
As long as they ever overlap in the path of the attacks, if they're omnipresent throughout time, then they'll get hit. And throughout gameplay, it is shown that you can just dodge out of the way of meteors which spits in the face of that if they're just immeasurable.
As long as they ever overlap in the path of the attacks, if they're omnipresent throughout time, then they'll get hit. And throughout gameplay, it is shown that you can just dodge out of the way of meteors which spits in the face of that if they're just immeasurable.
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But immeasurable speed is quite literally faster than Solaris’ attack’s omnipresence. You can essentially see it as the meteors moving from one moment to the next while their position stays constant. Something like this is instantly fast for a non-immeasurable being, but not for an immeasurable being, being faster than this kind of stuff is their shtick.
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I meant the attacks, not the hedgehog.
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No, they would have to be outside of time in order to avoid those attacks. If they're moving through it, they're still liable to be hit due to the omnipresence.
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Ah, ok
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The feat
is
about
immeasurable
Sonic
in
general
so
it's
not
derailing
Plus some arguments would be appreciated.
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Since Dude has absolutely zero ideas of a solution to this thread at all that doesn't involve stating he doesn't have an ability that's explicitly stated for Solaris to have I propose we should do this:
We should do what DDM said and postpone this thread, more revisions will come and the people arguing here don't even know what they want with how disorganized this thread is
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YOU brought Super Sonic only being FTL+, a claim with zero proof and that is objectively derrailing based on sheer bias because YOU are the one who hasn't provided the argument for that claim, that is factualy incorrect
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