Tying Up Bleach Speed Stuffs

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’m not the only one fed up with damage, I’m just the meanest person fed up with damage.

Damage is gonna send you to the gulag

Lol I’m surprised he hasn’t already. I’d place money on him waiting til I got banned and then just ignoring this topic once I can’t respond

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

u were a threat to his plan

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This thread has become toxic for no reason...

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Still waiting on a argument as to why the Bankai multiplier all of a sudden doesn’t apply to Gin.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

This thread has become toxic for no reason...

and this is just page one lol

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

they should apply, idk who is saying they should not.

 

[Ovy7]

Jesus Christ.........

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

they should apply, idk who is saying they should not.

Who = damage

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Bleach gets away with pretty much everything

Name 3 things

 

[LightReinh12345]

Renji is accepted for getting 5-10x stronger for displaying a power increase in Bankai, Ichigo is accepted for getting 5-10x stronger and faster for displaying such in Bankai, Kenpachi is accepted as getting 5-10x stronger and faster for displaying such in Bankai. So if Gin is displayed as getting faster in Bankai than it’s by 5-10x. Have some ******* consistency for once in your life or remove all multipliers from Bleach.

In Bleach When A Character Displays A Stat Increase In Bankai We Rate Them As Having Increased Said Stat By 5-10 Times.

You have yet to give a reason why Gin is special and has no multiplier. Like damn you really do need to be spoon fed by the author it’s pathetic.

I personally rate as 10x who has better control, full mastery over & devlop their bankai a lot after achieving bankai
Like Ichigo, Byakuya, Post Royal Training Renji after learning his zanpakuto Name
Who has less control & newly adapt bankai or has less mastery over bankai should be 5x like Soul Society Arc Ichigo, Ikkaku, Pre Royal Training Renji, Pre timeskip toshiro maybe
I add 7.5 x for those who has full mastery over their bankai but didnt show as efficient use
Like Sui Feng, Komamura & most of the Captains
This is just Personal evaluation by me it has maybe nothing to do with this but it sounds convincing for me

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Who = damage

ah

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Sigh.........

 

[Slacjow]

Name 3 things

Soul Crush, 5-A, MFTL from SOL solely on multiplers.
You will obviously disagree and try to defend it, but don't. It will lead to pointless derailing.

 

[Ovy7]

I though the multipliers are only for the Captains who's Bankai give a stats increase? Sui-Feng's is literally a nuke, for example, so I don't see why she would get a boost with Bankai.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I though the multipliers are only for the Captains who's Bankai give a stats increase? Sui-Feng's is literally a nuke, for example, so I don't see why she would get a boost with Bankai.

That is how we do things yes, and Gin’s Bankai is a speed amp to its extension speed. Thus it should be rated that his Shikai is 5-10x slower at extending.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I though the multipliers are only for the Captains who's Bankai give a stats increase? Sui-Feng's is literally a nuke, for example, so I don't see why she would get a boost with Bankai.

They’re only for characters that shows an explicit increase in whatever stat.

 

[Ovy7]

That is how we do things yes, and Gin’s Bankai is a speed amp to its extension speed. Thus it should be rated that his Shikai is 5-10x slower at extending.

I wasn't commenting on that, but on someone else mentioning Sui Feng.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Soul Crush, 5-A, MFTL from SOL solely on multiplers.
You will obviously disagree and try to defend it, but don't. It will lead to pointless derailing.

Soul Crush is restricted in every vs match up, 5-A is wrong, there’s a blatant SoL feat in CFYOW (Hikone moves so fast time appears to stop, which is a product of something moving at or near light speeds)

I wasn't commenting on that, but on someone else mentioning Sui Feng.

my b, thought you were

 

[00potato]

I mean that makes sense.

If it’s more focused on damage it’s a 5-10 times damage boost, vice versa with speed.
That makes sense with the general-ness of the statement (though gin’s power would need to be discussed for a certain reason.)

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Personally I think the amp should just apply to his speed, since we only know his extension speed increased.

 

[Ovy7]

I don't get why something like Soul Crush is so controversial when it's a legit ability in the verse, and Bleach isn't even the only verse on the wiki that has similar stuff. There's also Shinra Bansho which has soul crush, HxH has Nen Crush, Umineko has it, One Piece has CoC (tho I'm not sure if this one is implemented), and those are from the verses I've actively read and know. There could be others I have no knowledge of.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Soul Crush, 5-A, MFTL from SOL solely on multiplers.
You will obviously disagree and try to defend it, but don't. It will lead to pointless derailing.

soul crush is a legit thing on the verse and it gets restricted in 99% of vs

MFTL comes from a LS attack and renji casually reacting to it, then multipliers which are also a thing on bleach

 

[AppleLord]

I wish someone could screenshot all my premonitions into a compilation of when my friend lends me The Almighty and I predict every single thing in the up coming months correctly.

 

[Damage3245]

Even ignoring the issue of whether the Bankai multiplier is applicable, I think there are logical flaws in what you're proposing.

You're arguing that everyone should be getting a 7.5x multiplier for their Bankai, but you're saying to use a 10x multiplier for Gin's Bankai.

USklaverei's calc is also somewhat flawed - but even if it wasn't, you're getting result that is at least Mach 1377.99 with 10x or Mach 1837.32 with 7.5x. You want to upgrade Toshiro's speed so that he's overall around thirty times faster than Gin's attack that he only narrowly survived? If he was thirty times faster than Gin, why would he struggle so much? Why would Gin try to attack him with something dozens of times slower than himself?

Why would Gin boast that his Bankai is the fastest Zanpakuto there is if Captains like Toshiro were multiple times faster than it?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Your “A” is better than mine lol I would’ve never guessed someone would say “we shouldn’t use the multipliers the author directly gave us, but only for this specific character, it’s fine for the other ones that don’t upgrade the verse”

 

[00potato]

Ok, wouldn’t an object moving 5-10 times faster (gins benki.) do more damage anyway?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

You're arguing that everyone should be getting a 7.5x multiplier for their Bankai, but you're saying to use a 10x multiplier for Gin's Bankai.

I used 10x to lowball the calc, but as I’ve already said if it’s more acceptable then by all means I support using 7.5x for Gin.

USklaverei's calc is also somewhat flawed - but even if it wasn't, you're getting result that is at least Mach 1377.99 with 10x or Mach 1837.32 with 7.5x. You want to upgrade Toshiro's speed so that he's overall around thirty times faster than Gin's attack that he only narrowly survived? If he was thirty times faster than Gin, why would he struggle so much? Why would Gin try to attack him with something dozens of times slower than himself?

We already don’t rate Gin’s Zanpakuto as the fastest, we have Chojiro’s Bankai as having the highest attack speed. Also fastest Zanpakuto doesn’t mean PEOPLE can’t be faster than it. The reason Toshiro struggled was because the attack was point blank and a surprise attack. And finally your arguments are all questions and not arguments. Nothing says Gin has to be relative to his zanpakutos speed.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Gin doesn’t have the fastest Zanpakuto. It’s only rated like this because his is the only one that expands and contracts like that which isn’t even its true power.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; my main argument is still on what I've quoted for the multipliers page.

The reasons why we apply the multipliers to all of the stats for Ichigo, Kenpachi and Renji is because all of their physical stats have shown an increase.

The expansion/retraction speed of Gin's Bankai is not his own statistic unlike the others. Just as his Bankai gets many times bigger, there in is no reason why the expansion/contraction speed can't be many times bigger.

You haven't actually point out in your OP the flaw of this. You've just said:

However, we have never applied the Bankai multiplier to physical characteristics of the Zanpakuto, that would be like saying Mayuri's Bankai is a 100 times multiplier because Ashisogi Jizo gets 100 times bigger, or Sajin's Bankai is a 50 times multiplier because his Bankai is just himself but 50 times bigger (those numbers being arbitrary just for the sake of my point). Ichigo's original Tensa Zangetsu is smaller than his Shikai but that doesn't mean his Bankai is a decrease to stats, the point is that physical characteristics of a Zanpakuto (ie their size) hold no barring on the multiplier.

This isn't actually proof. This is just you saying we don't use the multiplier figure for these other sizes increases.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The expansion/retraction speed of Gin's Bankai is not his own statistic unlike the others. Just as his Bankai gets many times bigger, there in is no reason why the expansion/contraction speed can't be many times bigger.

In Bleach your Zanpakuto is you, better put the Zanpakuto is the extension of one’s own soul.

Ive went over the size thing in the OP.

Gin’s Bankai speed is a combat ability, Bankai increases combat ability by 5-10x. Bankai is a transformation of the Zanpakuto, there’s no reason to say the multiplier wouldn’t apply. And again you saying “maybe Gin’s multiplier is more than 10x” is not an argument at all.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

This isn't actually proof. This is just you saying we don't use the multiplier figure for these other sizes increases.

It’s infinitely more evidence than you’ve provided for saying we should use size to judge the multiplier...

 

[Damage3245]

It’s infinitely more evidence than you’ve provided for saying we should use size to judge the multiplier...

I'm not saying we use the size to decide how big the multiplier is.

What I'm pointing out is that one prominant characteristic of Gin's Zanpakuto is unaffected by the multiplier. Gin's Bankai length increases from one hundred sword lengths to 13 Kilometers. That can easily be described as a "combat ability" too.

There is no reason why Gin's Bankai speed cannot be equally as unaffected by the multiplier as the other characteristic of his Zanpakuto.

You're just being selective on what you want the multiplier to apply to here, because the speed of it can be used in other calcs.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

There is a reason tho. It’s a speed amp from a Bankai, to which Bankai increase by generally 5-10x. Everyone but you sees that. Unless you’re suggesting that Gin’s Zanpakuto speed doesn’t change from Shikai to Bankai.

Also regarding Gin’s Bankai size change. It goes from being able to extend 100 sword lengths to 13 km. In Bleach 100 sword lengths can vary greatly. So we can’t with certain confidence apply a multiplier to his extension size increase. Thus the only thing we are left with is the 5-10x multiplier.

 

[Damage3245]

There is a reason tho. It’s a speed amp from a Bankai, to which Bankai increase by generally 5-10x. Everyone but you sees that. Unless you’re suggesting that Gin’s Zanpakuto speed doesn’t change from Shikai to Bankai.

No, I'm just saying the generalized multiplier figure should be treated as irrelevant. If we had a specific statement saying his speed increases X amount of times, that'd be one thing. But we don't.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

No, I'm just saying the generalized multiplier figure should be treated as irrelevant. If we had a specific statement saying his speed increases X amount of times, that'd be one thing. But we don't.

Kubo isn’t going to go to every Bankai and say “Ichigo’s speed, AP, and dura increase by 10x” “Renji’s AP and dura increase by 10x” etc etc etc. we don’t need this constant spoon feeding, we are told Bankai increases combat ability by 5-10x. So when we see Gin’s Bankai get a speed amp we assume it’s 5-10x as per the author’s statement.

It’d be like saying that when we are told the SSJ multipliers it’s over a picture of Goku so those multipliers only apply to Goku.

We don’t have statements that say Ichigo’s speed increases 5-10x but we are shown so in the manga and can then use common sense. Same with Gin.

 

[SilentBob34]

@Arc7Kuroi, I'm leaning towards agreeing with you but there are some issues I have with the power scaling both pre and post timeskip.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Shoot the ***** my guy, this thread is also for discussing any issues with the sandboxes.

 

[SilentBob34]

My first question is why are we assuming that people like ss arc Byakuya and Ichigo only scale to a 20% Hitsugaya based off what Shunsui said about him taking a hundred years to pass him? I could understand other captains like Mayuri or maybe Komamura, but Byakuya is one of the captains that's known for his speed right? So why wouldn't they scale to a full power Toshiro ?

 

[Zoro21043]

this thread is also for discussing any issues with the sandboxes.

this is what uryu said when ulquiorra went into his second release and he had previously felt ulquiorras cero oscuras which was used in his 1st release few chapters ago

and cero oscuras has a confirmed multiplier of x10
so ulquiorras second release should have a at least x10 multiplier (also supports many characters bankais being above x5 as ressurrection=bankai)

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

My first question is why are we assuming that people like ss arc Byakuya and Ichigo only scale to a 20% Hitsugaya based off what Shunsui said about him taking a hundred years to pass him? I could understand other captains like Mayuri or maybe Komamura, but Byakuya is one of the captains that's known for his speed right? So why wouldn't they scale to a full power Toshiro ?

So the reason I defaulted everyone to 20% Toshiro was because I felt that would be easiest to accept as a basis for scaling. Like it’s not at all controversial to say “all the captains scale to a newbie captain at 20%” and I didn’t want to assert who should scale above 100% Toshiro without further consulting. That being said I scaled Shunsui above 100% Toshiro based on his statement, Jushiro scales to Shunsui, and Gin scales to Toshiro for fighting him. Then people like Aizen and Yamamoto scale much higher anyhow. So the people who scale to or higher than Toshiro that I have are Shunsui, Jushiro, Gin, Aizen, and Yama. Personally I think Byakuya, Yoruichi for outpacing Byakuya, Soifon by extension, Kenpachi, and Sajin and Tosen by extension of fighting Kenny should scale fully too.