Naruto Part II Revisions (Multipliers/Calculations)

[LordTracer]

Okay, I may have been wrong actually..... Well, I'm not sure at least.
So Itachi might need an extra key, if this is as it seems.
He was noted two times by Zetsu to be much weaker than usual, which we know is due to the sickness. He was getting overpowered by CS1/2 Sasuke's Katon as well. Though it should be noted that Itachi's katon also caused burns on Sasuke's wing.
This might mean that at Itachi's lowest point, when he was about to die, he was slightly below Sasuke.
Normally though, his regular "Above Orochimaru and Kisame" scaling applies.
You guys think maybe Itachi needs 3 keys instead?

Alive | Sick/Deathbed | Edo Tensei
Something like this perhaps?

I agree with this, that means Itachi’s keys would be High 7-A | At least 7-A, High 7-A with Susano’o | [whatever tier KCM and EMS are]

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

High 7-A | At least 7-A | [whatever tier KCM and EMS are]

Well, Sick Itachi's Susano'o is still High 7-A for tanking Kirin and easily beating Hydra Orochimaru, his strongest form.

 

[M3X_2.0]

MS/Taka Sasuke should be 7-A in base and High 7-A with Susano. I disagree with Itachi getting another key

 

[Damage3245]

Well, Sick Itachi's Susano'o is still High 7-A for tanking Kirin and easily beating Hydra Orochimaru, his strongest form.

Hydra Orocimaru is sort of featless though. There's no telling how strong it is aside from it being sliced to pieces by Itachi's Susano'o.

And it is possible that Itachi used the Yata Mirror to block the Kirin which IIRC can counter elemental attacks from the databook.

 

[LordTracer]

Hydra Orocimaru is sort of featless though. There's no telling how strong it is aside from it being sliced to pieces by Itachi's Susano'o.

And it is possible that Itachi used the Yata Mirror to block the Kirin which IIRC can counter elemental attacks from the databook.

Itachi’s Susano’o wasn’t holding the Yata Mirror when it first manifested though.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Hydra Orocimaru is sort of featless though. There's no telling how strong it is aside from it being sliced to pieces by Itachi's Susano'o.

And it is possible that Itachi used the Yata Mirror to block the Kirin which IIRC can counter elemental attacks from the databook.

No, it was stated to have surpassed Orochimaru entirely.

 

[LordTracer]

As you can see here, the Yata Mirror only manifested with the completed Susano’o, not the ribcage Itachi used to survive Kirin.

 

[M3X_2.0]

It's still 7-A

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

No, it was stated to have surpassed Orochimaru entirely.

Yeah, that's pretty blatant.

 

[Damage3245]

As you can see here, the Yata Mirror only manifested with the completed Susano’o, not the ribcage Itachi used to survive Kirin.

We don't see Itachi using the ribcage to block Kirin.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

It's still 7-A

Not if we take the Suigetsu and Sasuke statements that Sasuke only beat Orochimaru due to him being weakened, which would make Orochimaru at his prime stronger than CS2 Sasuke.

 

[M3X_2.0]

We don't see Itachi using the ribcage to block Kirin.

And we don't see him using Yata Mirror to block Kirin.

 

[Damage3245]

And we don't see him using Yata Mirror to block Kirin.

I know that. That's why I said:

> And it is possible that Itachi used the Yata Mirror to block the Kirin which IIRC can counter elemental attacks from the databook.

 

[LordTracer]

Itachi, while only having the ribcage up, says that it’s what he used.

 

[M3X_2.0]

That's a possibility, but we should work with facts and less assumptions.

 

[Damage3245]

Itachi, while only having the ribcage up, says that it’s what he used.

That doesn't mean he's referring to only that form of Susano'o. He's likely referring to the jutsu overall.

That's a possibility, but we should work with facts and less assumptions.

I agree.

But listing something as a possibility doesn't mean making a baseless assumption that something had to happen a certain way.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

It couldn't have been the Yata mirror because it completely nullifies physical and spiritual attacks, so Kirin wouldn't have done any damage to him, but we see that he has minor burns and his cloak is gone. So clearly Kirin wasn't "nullified", it was withstood.

 

[Damage3245]

It couldn't have been the Yata mirror because it completely nullifies physical and spiritual attacks, so Kirin wouldn't have done any damage to him, but we see that he has minor burns and his cloak is gone. So clearly Kirin wasn't "nullified", it was withstood.

So that means that Susano'o doesn't scale to Kirin because it was destroyed?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So that means that Susano'o doesn't scale to Kirin because it was destroyed?

I doubt he managed to manifest his Full Body Susano'o in time. It was more than likely at best his Skeletal One since it gets more Durable the more stages it goes through.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

No, that means the ribcage can barely survive Kirin. We know that the full Susano'o takes time to manifest fully.

 

[Damage3245]

No, that means the ribcage can barely survive Kirin. We know that the full Susano'o takes time to manifest fully.

We shouldn't be assuming that only the ribcage was used to block Kirin - or that the full Susano'o scales fully to it.

And even if we rated Itachi's Susano'o's durability to it, that woudln't grant it equal AP.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Ribcage or full Susano'o, it doesn't really matter. We are scaling "High 7-A with Susano'o", not "Ribcage Susano" or "Full Susano'o".

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

It's AP is for slicing Hydra Orochimaru.

 

[LordTracer]

We shouldn't be assuming that only the ribcage was used to block Kirin - or that the full Susano'o scales fully to it.

And even if we rated Itachi's Susano'o's durability to it, that woudln't grant it equal AP.

It having High 7-A AP doesn’t come from blocking Kirin anyways, so...

 

[Damage3245]

It having High 7-A AP doesn’t come from blocking Kirin anyways, so...

Sorry. I think I got that impression from somebody's post further up, but fair enough.

 

[Metalija]

Susanoo cut hydra so its AP is High 7-A considering that even Base Orochi is High 7-A when not sick

 

[LordTracer]

So are you fine with Itachi getting a new key for when he fought Sasuke?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Then where the High 7-A AP comes from? Because one shotting Orochimaru's new form isn't a High 7-A feat.

 

[LordTracer]

Then where the High 7-A AP comes from? Because one shotting Orochimaru's new form isn't a High 7-A feat.

It is. We established that Prime Orochimaru is High 7-A, Hydra Orochimaru is stronger than that.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So are you fine with Itachi getting a new key for when he fought Sasuke?

UchihaSlayer96 and I are. Not sure about everyone else.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Getting a new key would be fine imo.

 

[Metalija]

Then where the High 7-A AP comes from? Because one shotting Orochimaru's new form isn't a High 7-A feat.

Read my post above, both Sasuke and Suigetsu admit that the only reason Sasuke defeated Orochimaru was because Orochimaru was weakened. Orochimaru himself knows how strong CM2 Sasuke is since he trained him, so why do you think Sasuke waited until Orochimaru was on his deathbed in order to defeat him? Oro didn't have his arms even before that event and Sasuke STILL waited until Orochi was dying and he still used his CM2 (The full one, not 1.5 one like against Itachi), so it makes logical and narative sense for Prime Orochi to be High 7-A.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

So, guys, I think we really should zone in on a topic and keep at it until it's concluded. We need to keep this organized, or else this will never end.

So after we finish the Itachi/Orochimaru discussion, we should probably go back and get through the Akatsuki suppression arc, since it wasn't really discussed all that much. Though I agree with LordTracer's sandbox in regards to Kakuzu and Hidan.

 

[LordTracer]

Is there much else to discuss for that arc?

 

[Metalija]

Shikamaru should have 7-A AP with his shadow possession since he pierced Hidan with it. Not sure about his physical AP and Dura.

 

[LordTracer]

He restrained Kakuzu too.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Shikamaru should have 7-A AP with his shadow possession since he pierced Hidan with it. Not sure about his physical AP and Dura.

prob Unknown for Physical AP

 

[LordTracer]

prob Unknown for Physical AP

Why wouldn’t it just be 8-B like his Chūnin Exam self...?

 

[Metalija]

I think we already went over most stuff in the Itachi Pursuit and Pain arc, should we start talking about 5 kage summit arc?

 

[Damage3245]

Why wouldn’t it just be 8-B like his Chūnin Exam self...?

Could put him as "At least 8-B, 7-A with Shadow Possession jutsu"