Do Skeletons Have Shadows?--Sans vs Gengar

• Shrugs

Idk. I was gonna do Sans vs Samus, but I realized that's already a match, and I can just bump it. So let's place Sans against another opponent, this time against another undead monster. The OG Ghost Type Pokemon squares off against the nihilistic, pun-telling skeleton. Speed equalized


Guess you like doing things the hard way.


There is no escape. Give up.

Why is there so much Sans threads right now aaaaaaaaaaa

I'd say inconclusive. Sans' attacks likely counting as Souls attack puts Gengar at quite a disadvantage, and he has little ways to counter teleport spam (Unless he's mega), though Sucker Punch could still take Sans out if Gengar's lucky enough.

Shoot. Forgot to Mega Evolve Gengar...

Mean Look and there goes the teleportation.

Not voting yet, though.

(For the summary/TL;DR/end of post, search for "To summarize:" on this page, without the quotes.)

Hoo boy. THAT Skeleton vs Shadow Ghost.

I was gonna bring up what Lepyr said about Mean Look. But yeah. Mega Gengar? Okay. Well, so much for the possibility of Gengar being immune to Sans's bones because Levitate & precedent of Bone-attacks in Pokemon being Ground-type....

ANYWAY.... In my understanding, Sans is a very lazy, often joking & often somewhat dispassionate opponent; He fought Chara so fiercely because Chara had killed most everyone in the underground & he wanted to keep Chara from advancing -making the anomaly/player give up- for as long as possible.


I doubt Mega Gengar killed everyone Sans loves.

So it's questionable if Sans is at his most motivated to win this. Gengar often isn't very serious either, as its Pokedex entries & our page note its love of mischeif, which may lead to it fooling around too much....

HOWEVER. I doubt this Gengar was BORN a Gengar. Gastly is known to Poison & suffocate prey, Haunter's touch & life-draining lick cause shuddering until the victim's demise, & Gengar itself....

Moo	It apparently wishes for a traveling companion. Since it was once human itself, it tries to create one by taking the lives of other humans.

Gengar is probably taking A LOT of damage from soul attacks, & Karmic Retribution means each attack will be adding extra damage.


Does Sans need to be able to know where Gengar is to attack it? Can Soul attacks be dodged? I'd like to think so, but both are big factors here; Gengar probably will last a while, even with extra damage, thanks to its City Level durability vs Sans's Wall or Unknown level offenses.

Not to mention, as per Sans's own profile here:

"Sans is incredibly lazy, and will not fight or use the full extent of his abilities unless absolutely necessary"


So what can Gengar do that can seal the deal?

Well, obviously, there's Mean Look. I doubt lazy, unenthusiastic Sans will think to dodge what appears to be just an unpleasant gaze, before the fight starts, or midway through; What would cue him in that it's more than a nasty stare, & it has some effects, as opposed to just being a chance to rest?

If Mean Look does hit, Sans likely can't Teleport.


There's also the possibility of Mega Gengar's Shadow Tag reducing Sans's mobility.

Failing that, Gengar has:

1. Disable: If Disable hits, it could interfere with Sans using his hax -like teleportation, gravity manipulation, or his soul attacks- and such.

2. Confuse Ray .

Stad	A sinister flash of light makes the target confused. A special Ghost-type technique.

If we count Confuse Ray as light speed, it might cause Sans issues; He scales to someone who dodged sunlight apparently, but he's still Unknown, & it is Speed Equalized against someone with a known rating of At Least Transonic. If it did hit, Sans failing to dodge or hitting himself in confusion could doom him.

3. Hypnosis .

DPPtHGSS PBR BWB2W2 XYORAS SM

The user employs hypnotic suggestion to make the target fall into a deep sleep.

Yes, Sans HAS dodged while asleep after falling asleep during inactivity while fatigued... but he was also serious, fighting his mortal enemy to keep them from advancing for as long as possible. I'd think he'd be less alert here than against Chara, who killed most everyone he cares about & wanted to keep in combat as long as possible.

Also, he might be less ABLE &/or WILLING to dodge when put into a "deep sleep" via hypnotic suggestion.

If Hypnosis works anyway.

4. Shadow Sneak .

BWB2W2 XYORAS SM

The user extends its shadow and attacks the target from behind. This move always goes first.

Between Gengar's other attacks -Ex: Shadow Ball, Dark Pulse, Sucker Punch, Shadow Punch- etc. Sans having to pay attention to the surfaces of the arena in the event that Gengar's extended shadow kills him while he's dealing with other attacks would tax Sans's endurance & focus here.

5. Spite: Spite can severely deplete Sans's stamina after Sans's attacks, which is just another way Gengar can challenge it.


Lastly, Gengar is known to hide in Shadows, which may be able to confuse Sans.


To summarize:

Sans is either Wall level or Unknown via Soul Hax according to his profile. He'll be dealing double damage via Gengar's typing -unless Bones=Ground & Gengar has Levitate- & more thanks to Karmic Retribution, as all of Gengar's line is known or strongly implied to kill.

Against roughly City Level durability with some level of durability ignoring attacks, Sans might be able to kill Gengar....


But Sans is likely to be dispassionate, lazy, & unmotivated during this fight, being that it's unlikely he knows Gengar & not necessarily cares about its victims or sins.

Between that & not knowing of Gengar's hax like rays of confusion-inducing light, psychically hypnotizing him into deep sleep, Shadow Tag & Mean Look impeding his mobility, & Shadow Sneak possibly killing Sans while his attention is unfocused & on other attacks....


There are A LOT of things that can go wrong for Sans here.

Both fighters have a risk of goofing around too much in the fight, but Gengar isn't as lazy, & if Gengar can dodge enough or last long enough & realize to use its hax, it can screw over Sans in many ways.


I vote (Mega) Gengar, Medium-High Difficulty.

Gengar for reasons above

@Imag. Sans is assumed to always be bloodlusted in his matches, otherwise he wouldn't be attacking at all. Also, speed is equalized, so Confuse Ray wouldn't be lightspeed or anything. About the Bones, Pokemon things like that are one-way, given that the mechanics aren't the same in other verses, and this is a neutral setting. Bone attacks are only ground if used by say, Marowak or Lucario. Another example is that while say, Juvia Lockser from Fairy Tail would be doing double damage to say, Charizard, Charizard wouldn't be doing half damage to Juvia.

@Imagyne.

Finally i see you in a match, and i think you said enough to my vote for gengar.

Nice to see you.

3 Gengar, 0 Sans, 1 inconclusive

The real cal howard said:

@Imag. Sans is assumed to always be bloodlusted in his matches, otherwise he wouldn't be attacking at all. Also, speed is equalized, so Confuse Ray wouldn't be lightspeed or anything. About the Bones, Pokemon things like that are one-way, given that the mechanics aren't the same in other verses, and this is a neutral setting. Bone attacks are only ground if used by say, Marowak or Lucario. Another example is that while say, Juvia Lockser from Fairy Tail would be doing double damage to say, Charizard, Charizard wouldn't be doing half damage to Juvia.

Click to expand...

I thought Attack Speed DIDN'T get equalized by Speed Equalization? https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/695295

Not to mention Sans is currently rated at Unknown Speed, albeit, scaled to someone who dodged sunlight, but Gengar is At Least Transonic. One has a non-Unknown speed value, the other doesn't.

Also, isn't our ruling on Speed Equalization to equalize dow ?

Besides that, I know Pokemon type match-ups are one way. Gengar's Shadow Ball for example, doesn't have a "Ghost" type, nor the capacity to be SE/NVE against non-Pokemon opponents, as far as I understand.

But are you saying Sans soul bones are effectively typeless against Gengar? Or that Gengar having Levitate if it did wouldn't grant it immunity to Ground-type stuff like "Soul Bones" possibly?

Nonetheless, I can accept Gengar RECEIVING such attacks as though they were Ghost type, but I just want to be certain, we're considering them to have a definite type in this case. I don't consider type match-ups to apply to a non-Pokemon opponent, & don't think I did before.


Lastly, regarding Sans being bloodlusted, I checked his profile. I saw no notes of him being assumed to be Bloodlusted by default in matches, unless you count:

"Weaknesses: Incredibly lazy, Won't fight unless absolutely necessary (only fought in the genocide route, where he believes you to be a threat to all other timelines)"

You also didn't mention Bloodlusted in the opening post, & a character being bloodlusted by default with no notes indicating such isn't part of Standard Battle Assumptions either unless we count:

State of mind: In character, but willing to kill. The characters will employ their usual battle strategies, including flaws such as being casual, however, must be willing to kill the opponent even if they usually won't.


I apologize if those are, in fact, meant to indicate general bloodlusted-ness by default.

Regardless, even if Confuse Ray can't hit, in Speed Equalized, Gengar still has a variety of hax, & SBA supports that Sans at the very least, isn't knowledgeable about Gengar or its hax from the start.

He stands to lose his ability to teleport from Mean Look, &/or other stuff with Disable, have his mobility impaired, be hypnotized into deep sleep, killed from behind by Gengar's extending shadow, & many other issues.

My vote remains for Gengar.

I'm not trying to change your vote at all. Just stating something. It's just Sans, being Sans, is literally incapable of putting up a fight unless bloodlusted [or being told to fight, as he would've killed all grounded humans if he didn't meet Toriel, as that was his job (though that might've just been dark humor)]

Alright then. Although, technically, new information like what you brought up can stand to change my vote. But I get that isn't the purpose of your post.

And as for the other points brought up?

They're still legit, you're arguments, along with your new arguments (though Confuse Ray isn't SoL). I'm remaining impartial, and I don't mind who winds up being the victor. I like both of the opponents.

Gengar for reasons above.

Gengar for above reasons.

Gengar for reasons above.

Surprised no one has come to give their reasoning for Sans to win. Oh, well. There isn't truly much more to say for Gengar, really. So imma go and say "for reasons above".

I vote for Gengar for reasons above.