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Dragon Ball Speed Downgrade

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AppleLord

AppleLord

11,540
3,093
There are no calc links to support their speed feats after Piccolo's Moon Bust feat.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:SomebodyData/Toeiverse_-_Piccolo's_Moon_Beam_Speed

I would be eternal thankful if someone could provide some.

I don't know if this calc is still accepted or not, but the death beam calc is using calc stalking:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FanofRPGs/Goku's_Freeza_Saga_Speed_Feats

Using an assume size to determine a characters speed AND use said speed to get speed from another character? Namek Speed feats should be provided, or scale them backwards to Piccolo's Relativistic feat.

I read somewhere that Toriyama said that the distance between the Earth and the Moon is 380,000 km and was supported by the scan in dragon ball when Goku takes the Rabbit to the Moon. The Moon is closer to the Earth when compare with ours. I try to find such statement from Toriyama, but found nothing, all links providing this statement were deleted from the Internet. I want to know why do you use an assume size to get a speed feat when the author gave another?

Fallacy Scaling to FTL: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FanofRPGs/Goku_swats_away_the_Death_Beams

Assuming Planet Namek unknown sky rotation speed to Venus, assume FTL space pods, unknown distance, calc stalking an assume speed AND using same speed for another calc, using a statement "haz de luz" which translate to "Beam" not Light Beam.
 
As someone who knows spanish (first language), "haz de luz" is "beam of light". About the other arguments, I won't take position, but will follow the thread.
 
Darkmon cns said:
If anything scaling alone should get Goku FTL as a Super Saiyan.
Click to expand...
Scaling from what? Mulipliers aren't accepted anymore. IIRC please someone correct me on this.
 
>338000 m between Earth and Moon, but that is impossible, there's no way that they are so close to each other. In the other hand, the planets in DB universe seems to be pretty close to each other, but I always consider that an artist mistake, and even tho 338 km is still pretty close.

Guess that "haz de luz" is an ambiguos, could mean laser or beam; and I noticed that was assumed 1 m in that calc, Frieza seems to be pretty far to be at one 1 m.
 
They don"t scale from SSJ multipliers, they scale from Kaioken. And since SSJ > Kaioken x20, Goku would be FTL+ in reactions shot burst speeds, even if he was Relativistic+ in base.
 
Scaling from what? Mulipliers aren't accepted anymore. IIRC please someone correct me on this.

A how much above everyone else they are

B frize using 2% agenst base Goku and SS Goku being able to fight 100% frize
 
Antoniofer said:
>338000 m between Earth and Moon, but that is impossible, there's no way that they are so close to each other. In the other hand, the planets in DB universe seems to be pretty close to each other, but I always consider that an artist mistake, and even tho 338 km is still pretty close.
Guess that "haz de luz" is an ambiguos, could mean laser or beam; and I noticed that was assumed 1 m in that calc, Frieza seems to be pretty far to be at one 1 m.
Click to expand...
Yes, the moon is closer to DBZ Earth than ours.

http://thedaoofdragonball.com/wp-co...ragon-ball-making-mochi-cakes-on-the-moon.png

I found the Interview. 380,000 km

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8518813/1/
 
Sidali891 said:
They don"t scale from SSJ multipliers, they scale from Kaioken. And since SSJ > Kaioken x20, Goku would be FTL+ in reactions shot burst speeds, even if he was Relativistic+ in base.
Click to expand...
That's still using multiplers and assumptions.
 
Darkmon cns said:
Scaling from what? Mulipliers aren't accepted anymore. IIRC please someone correct me on this.
Click to expand...
A how much above everyone else they are
B frize using 2% agenst base Goku and SS Goku being able to fight 100% frize

Gives you unknown results.
 
Fixed the link, also even using the standard assumption of 60 seconds the moon feat is still Sub-Rel.
 
RadicalMrR said:
Here
Click to expand...
There's no source for the time frame it says error and I would assume that it's a new cinematic timing, instead of the 3 second originally use for the other calc, Am I right?
 
The Calc should be redo with the actual size 380,000 km and a 60 seconds time frame.

Reasons:

A. Is straight forward.

B. Low-Ball instead of assumption.

C. Evidence on Old Cals are using assumptions and links are broken.
 
Heh, guess that was just a bad typo, welp, that is just 98.9% the real distance between Earth and Moon, wouldn't change much the calc.

It sounds more like toryama was rounding it's probably safe if it that close the the real distance to just use the real distance
 
From there we can scale Namek saga characters without having to use calc stalking or assume speed numbers a.k.a. mulipliers.
 
@AppleLord That's still using multiplers and assumptions.

SSJ> Kaioken x20 is not an assumption. Kaioken increases speed, strength and all stats by X times, as stated by Goku himself. SSJ is not stated or said to multiply stats (50x is an assumption by the fans), but it is established that it's higher than the highest Kaioken multiplier (x20). Hence, why they uses Kaioken multipliers and not SSJ's.
 
AppleLord said:
From there we can scale Namek saga characters without having to use calc stalking or assume speed numbers a.k.a. mulipliers.
Click to expand...
No Kaioken is an esepted multiplier it cab be used for these
 
AppleLord said:
The Calc should be redo with the actual size 380,000 km and a 60 seconds time frame.

Reasons:

A. Is straight forward.

B. Low-Ball instead of assumption.

C. Evidence on Old Cals are using assumptions and links are broken.
Click to expand...
No toryama was clearly rounding when he said that there's no reason to not use the real distance
 
Darkmon cns said:
.
It sounds more like toryama was rounding it's probably safe if it that close the the real distance to just use the real distance
Click to expand...
Impossible. Reasons:

-If he knows the real distance he would had given it or say its the same as ours.

-He drew the DBZ Moon closer to the Earth when compare to ours.
 
Sidali891 said:
@AppleLord That's still using multiplers and assumptions.

SSJ> Kaioken x20 is not an assumption. Kaioken increases speed, strength and all stats by X times, as stated by Goku himself. SSJ is not stated or said to multiply stats (50x is an assumption by the fans), but it is established that it's higher than the highest Kaioken multiplier (x20). Hence, why they uses Kaioken multipliers and not SSJ's.
Click to expand...
Actually the times 50 for Super Saiyan is from the guide books
 
Sidali891 said:
@AppleLord
That's still using multiplers and assumptions.

SSJ> Kaioken x20 is not an assumption. Kaioken increases speed, strength and all stats by X times, as stated by Goku himself. SSJ is not stated or said to multiply stats (50x is an assumption by the fans), but it is established that it's higher than the highest Kaioken multiplier (x20). Hence, why they uses Kaioken multipliers and not SSJ's.
Click to expand...
You're right about Kaio-ken, I was talking about SSJ which isn't accepted. Sorry about that However, Kaio-ken is calc stalking an already calculated speed feat to get another characters speed.
 
"Uknown sky rotation to venus"

What?

That was to prove a point, it was claimed that people could visibly see FTE objects in space moving. However, such thing cannot apply to tiny spacepods.

Namek is a cosmic backwater in the middle of nowhere. The Ginyus should be several light years away AT LEAST.


Even so, Goku escaped the light orb explosion, a relativistic feat.
 
Darkmon cns said:
AppleLord said:
From there we can scale Namek saga characters without having to use calc stalking or assume speed numbers a.k.a. mulipliers.
Click to expand...
No Kaioken is an esepted multiplier it cab be used for these
Click to expand...
Calc stalking
 
Impossible. Reasons:

-If he knows the real distance he would had given it or say its the same as ours.

-He drew the DBZ Moon closer to the Earth when compare to ours.

No the nomber is so close it's more convenient to say the rounded part then the whole thing and how would he know the exact comparesent of the earth from the moon? It was a gag seane he wouldn't go researching it.
 
Kaioken is a direct multiplier with direct statements of it multiplying speed.

Which was AT more likely meaning when he said "multiplies speed": The KaioKen x3 multiplies by 3, or by 1.235242524?
 
Darkmon cns said:
No toryama was clearly rounding when "he said that there's no reason to not use the real distance"
Click to expand...
False Claim, Toriyama never said that. Link?
 
False Claim, Toriyama never said that. Link?

I said toryama was rounding becues it's convenient it's common sense
 
@AppleLord

Kaio-ken is calc stalking an already calculated speed feat to get another characters speed.

Actually, no. This is not calc stacking. Clac stacking is taking a claculation and using its high-end results (for example) to form another calculation.

The case you're talking about here is using multipliers of a technique in a calculation. Which is, by definition, not calc stacking.
 
FanofRPGs said:
"Uknown sky rotation to venus"
What?

That was to prove a point, it was claimed that people could visibly see FTE objects in space moving. However, such thing cannot apply to tiny spacepods.

Namek is a cosmic backwater in the middle of nowhere. The Ginyus should be several light years away AT LEAST.


Even so, Goku escaped the light orb explosion, a relativistic feat.
Click to expand...
That's still an assumption, and the light orb feat is calc stalking.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1psjxTAddZVxu7uH8XYgwurViuxkjITdNjtyYGacDvjY/edit

Calculating the SIZE then using said size to calc the detonation to get the Speed.
 
Darkmon cns said:
Impossible. Reasons:
-If he knows the real distance he would had given it or say its the same as ours.

-He drew the DBZ Moon closer to the Earth when compare to ours.
Click to expand...
No the nomber is so close it's more convenient to say the rounded part then the whole thing and how would he know the exact comparesent of the earth from the moon? It was a gag seane he wouldn't go researching it.
Convenient equals an opinion which equals an assumption. We should use the official number.
 
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