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Ben 10: Alien X tiering

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Hop Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer said:
Other than that, Ant has a strong point. Other universe/timelines are what's explored, not what seems like a universe.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by this, and why does this matter?

There exist only 1 Ben in each timeline, each timeline has 2 universes and dozens of dimensions. Timeline =Multiverse.

Celestialsapiens are stated to be the reason to why the art/ animation of the series changes, meaning they affected and know of every timeline. They didn't correct Ben when he said "The universe is everything". Like in Dragon Ball Super where the word "Sekai" can mean both "the world" as in Earth and the multiverse, in Ben 10 "the universe" can mean a universe or "all of existence".


" this entire "multi-multiverse/omniverse" thing is just a creative way of writing in new timelines into the show, not making a massively grand scale of timelines/dimensions/universes for the sake of making the characters overpowered."

They never use the word multiverse, multi-universe or omniverse when referring to the destruction of anything, so not sure what your point is? Are you saying the Anihilaarg and the timebomb didn't destroy every timeline, despite us seeing it do so and it getting confirmed? We see it happen on screen. parallel timelines has been in Ben 10 since the original series, and appeared in every other Ben 10 series several times. it is not something that only appears on Ben 10 Omniverse.


" Most are below Tier 3, and only a few are Tier 3-A or above. Logically a writer would not make, even in the show's finale, such a power character that's Tier 2-A ."

Alien X has been Tier 2-A ever since it tanked the Anihilaarg, or after the introduction of the timebomb/ chrono navigator, which none are at the series finale. Alien X was stated to be omnipotent when first introduced, and also in other episodes, and also from interviews/ comments from the author.

Now I'm not saying he is omnipotent, ( Omnipotence is above logic, basically it proves nothing) but clearly the author always intended for Alien X to be more powerful than anything else in the series, including tier 2-a multiversal weapons. Him being considered tier 2-a by the author is more than likely, since the author believes he is omnipotent.
 
Alien X is confirmed to be Ben's most powerful Alien upgrade from the alien profile in your link, so no Atomic X is not as strong as alien x.
 
Eroij said:
Alien X is confirmed to be Ben's most powerful Alien upgrade from the alien profile in your link, so no Atomic X is not as strong as alien x.
Click to expand...
A. Atomic-X is not one of Ben's aliens, it's the alien of one of Ben's alternate selves.

B. I'm not even sure Atomic-X existed when the statement was made.

C. It was confirmed by one of the creators that Alien X isn't Ben's strongest alien.
 
The Everlasting said:
Eroij said:
Alien X is confirmed to be Ben's most powerful Alien upgrade from the alien profile in your link, so no Atomic X is not as strong as alien x.
Click to expand...
A. Atomic-X is not one of Ben's aliens, it's the alien of one of Ben's alternate selves.
B. I'm not even sure Atomic-X existed when the statement was made.

C. It was confirmed by one of the creators that Alien X isn't Ben's strongest alien.
Click to expand...
1st. Not Ben's alternative selves as I've said multiple times now. Adult Ben is the main Ben's future self.

Click on the link to see the statements

http://www.tomfreelance.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/P06-7_BEN10.jpg

2nd He did

3rd Proof? The author clearly states alien x is his most powerful alien.
 
Alright I like to address the first feat/statement for Destructive Capacity. The Anihilaarg dose not support a 2-A Alien X why? Because the Anihilaarg only destroys a universe and the 100 dimension. This would still make Alien X low 2-C unless you can prove all of those dimensions possess their own space-time and that their each the size of a universe. Even if they do have different space-time and are universe in size this would only make Alien X 2-C since 1001 universes is where 2-B begins so this doesn't support a 2-A Alien X
 
Different timelines are simply considered as different universal space-time continuums within this wiki.

The offhanded questions and answers reply has to be considered as unreliable.

The term "Omniverse" is meaningless.

What is relevant in this context is whether or not we can scale Alien X from the weapon that was going to destroy all timelines.
 
From my knowledge Alien X has tanked the destruction of the universe effortlessly, created a universe effortlessly, tanked and contained the Anihilaarg explosion which was going to create a new universe. He is absolutely Low 2-C but since Atomic X who is part Alien X and should be no weaker then Alien x could not survive the destruction of all timelines neither should Alien X. Now even if we discard Atomic X then Alien X would only be 2-C possible higher scaling from the time Bomb since Vilgax says the Bomb would destroy all timelines and we see their where at least like ten Bens their but unless their is a clear statement that their are infinite timelines he should not be rated 2-A.

The are two ways two rate him

If we take into account Atomic X and go off feats Low 2-C(effortlessly created a universe) Alien X's current tier

If we disregard Atomic X and scale him from the time bomb At least 2-C possible much higher(Alien X is stated to be the most powerful alien in the Omnitrix which is in tern stated to be the most powerful weapon in the universe even more then the Cronosapian Time Bomb which is capable of destroying all timelines which contains at least 10 or how ever many Bens where their but it is unknown how many timelines are actually in the Ben 10 universe) Obviously this needs to be simplified but this is the best I could do.
 
Lordgriffin1000, Paradox states there are infinite timelines

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3ilitb

9:30 "Ad infinitum", which means "continue forever, without limit"

For the last time, Atomic X is not as strong as Alien X.

http://www.tomfreelance.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/P06-7_BEN10.jpg

Alien X>>> Maltruent>>> Atomic X.

@Antvasima

"Different timelines are simply considered as different universal space-time continuums within this wiki." So what is required for something to be a multiverse? Nevertheless, each universe has 100 dimensions/ universes so not seeing how timelines aren't multiverses? Paradox says only 1 universe has normal physics in each timeline, you can't travel to another timeline, only teleport there.
 
Even if each timeline actually has 100 universes, it makes no difference to a sufficiently high rating. 2-B means any finite number of universes higher than 1000, and 2-A means an infinite number of universes.
 
Lordgriffin1000

The word universe doesn't always mean a single universe, just like the word "world" doesn't always mean a single planet. The Anihilaarg didn't destroy 1 universe, it destroyed " everything there is".

The Anihilaarg destroyed every universe, everything, not just a single universe. Unless you can prove "everything there is" meant only 1 universe, it destroyed them all. Keep in mind Ben has been to other universes+ timeline etc, Serena and Bellicus come from another universe etc, yet he still said "everything there is". Serena and Bellicus didn't correct him on his wording "it destroyed everything there is", other than the tense is to was. Clearly The Anihilaarg destroyed all of existence.


The word "universe" is not really important, it's the context behind the word.


Otherwise you're saying Zeno only destroyed a single planet, when he destroyed "the world".
 
Also forgot to mention that Clockwork recreated all the timelines, after Vilgax destroyed, Alien X >>>>> Clockwork.
 
As far as I remember, the anihilaarg was shown and stated to have only destroyed a single universe, and this is also what was referred to in the the official Alien X character bio, linked to earlier. As such, any mentions of "all there is" must be taken as hyperbole.

How did Clockwork recreate timelines? If it was via time travel to prevent the event from happening in the first place, it obviously doesn't count.
 
Wrong thread, but it has been established that there are an infinite number of higher dimensions in DC. Also, Multiversity established that there are an infinite number of multiversal clusters with 52 universes in each of them.
 
Antvasima said:
Even if each timeline actually has 100 universes, it makes no difference to a sufficiently high rating. 2-B means any finite number of universes higher than 1000, and 2-A means an infinite number of universes.
Click to expand...
There are infinite timelines, i've linked the timestamp and the episode in my previous posts. Ther are a hundred universes/ dimensions in each universe, but there are 2 universes in infinite timelines. It's in my post above yours.


Clockwork recreates all the timelines:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3z4971_ben-10-omniverse-s06e02-and-then-there-was-ben_fu

it happens at 15:50

He recreates all the multiverse, not by time traveling, but similarly to how Alien X recreated the universe.

" 'As far as I remember, the' 'anihilaarg' was shown and stated to have only destroyed a single universe, and this is also what was referred to in the 'the official' Alien X character bio, linked to earlier. As such, any mentions of "all there is" must be taken as hyperbole."


It was never shown or stated it only destroyed 1, this is not what is referred in Alien X character profile neither. In fact, the opposite is stated in both the episode and his bio. Watch the clip, we never see the Anihilaarg destroy more than 2 planets.

By that logic that " we didn't see it destroy more than a universe, thus it only destroyed 1", The Anihilaarg should be multi-planet level actually, as that is all that we saw.


We never saw Goku and Beerusdestroy more than planets in their fist bumps, by the same logic, all the universal destruction being said was just hyperbole. We never see it happen.


It says in Alien X's profile that he can create and destroy universes, in plural, meaning he did recreate universes in plural. It says Alien X's profile that Ben doesn't want to use Alien X because he knows it can destroy and recreate universes, in plural.

Answer this to me, do you believe Zeno from Dragon Ball Super destroyed all universes in future Trunk's timeline or just a single planet? After all he only mentioned he would destroy the "world", and we didn't actually see him destroy anything more than the Earth.
 
I started watching the episode at 15:15, and did not notice Clockwork restoring any timelines. It simply seemed to unfreeze time, by being attuned to other Chronosapien technology.

As far as I remember, it was explicitly stated that the Annihilaarg destroyed a single universe, in both this episode and later ones.

Stating that he can destroy and create universes does not necessarily mean several at once, when we only have proof of one at a time.

Obfuscating the issue by mixing in different fictions, and using false equivalences, is irrelevant to this issue, and not appreciated.

I am also starting to get extremely tired of humoring your relentlessly argumentative unreasonability, as I am extremely busy with lots of different tasks at once. I should probably close this thread unless somebody else in the staff wishes to join in.
 
It did not unfreeze time, time was not frozen in the first place. You clearly see Clockwork recreating every Ben that were erased, if time was frozen, why would they get erased in the first place if time was frozen? This never happens when Maltruent freezes and unfreezes time, nor does it happen when Clockwork does it. The timebomb didn't stop time, it erases timelines and people from the timelines. Vilgax cannot move in stopped time, yet he clearly moves before Ben uses Clockwork.


What Vilgax meant with "lost in time" is the fact that Ben and Paradox went in a "placeless" and "timeless" dimension as said by Paradox :

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3z4930

21:10 They were hiding in one of the previous timelines, destroyed by the timebomb hence the "lost in time".

What's the point of stating several universe, if it is only 1 at a time? There's no concrete proof it was just 1 universe, all that was said is " the universe, which is everything, was destroyed". That's it. We don't see anything other than 2 planets getting destroyed and that statement.

But whatever, let's agree to disagree.

Do you agree to scale Alien X to the timebomb ?' If so then I see no reason to not put Alien X at tier '2-a .


Keep in mind Azmuth and Paradox, who both know of the power of the Chrono Navigator( which is tier 2-a multiversal), still believes the omnitrx is the most powerful weapon in the universe, due to Alien X.
 
I do not know if Alien X scales to the timebomb, or if Clockwork was simply able to rewind time due to being attuned to the technology of its own species via plot convenience hax, as it mentioned itself. If Chronosapiens were able to destroy and create timelines on their own, the final main enemy of the series would have been a lot more dangerous.

I would appreciate more input from the rest of the staff, as this is a very speculative, and not at all straightforward issue.
 
The chronosapiens cannot destroy timelines easily on their own, but can recreate them farily easily as shown by Clockwork. no other alien has shown to easily attune to their species technology, so don't see why it would be the case here. Ben is very uncredible, he does not know anything about Clockwork at all, literally. Attuned or not, it recreated something that didn't exist. Clockwork and Maltruent, despite both being Chronosapien don't have the exact same power and abilities.

Also, like with Alien X after the Anihilaarg was detonated, what Clockwork did is not really plot convenience hax, their power centers around space-time manipulation.


The Omnitrix is the most powerful weapon stated several times by very credible characters, 2 other less powerful weapons are tier 2-a Multiversal. Both Azmuth and Paradox know the power behind both weapons.

Alien X is the most powerful alien in the Omnitrix and universe. The forge of creation is the greatest source of power in the universe( only Celestialsapiens are there, nothing else). Alien X is stated to be "omnipotent" . How is saying Alien X scales to both weapons speculative and not straightforward?
 
You do have a point, but we nevertheless need more staff input.
 
Allright, fair enough, I will wait to see what the other staff member will have to say about this.
 
I don't really see any major problems with 2-A Alien X from what I can recall. Anything beyond that is far too speculative, though.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
I don't really see any major problems with 2-A Alien X from what I can recall. Anything beyond that is far too speculative, though.
Click to expand...
Not sure if you saw this but...

"I should mention that Atomic-X (A half-Celestialsapien) got utterly obliterated by the Chronosapien Time Bomb. Alien X being 2-A is impossible."

And while that is Atomic-X, I don't see why that Ben would hybrid Alien X if it made him so much weaker.
 
@Ever

Wasn't that about it being too dangerous or something? Also, is there confirmation for Atomic-X being stronger than Alien X? I genuinely can't remember.
 
Alien X had a massive weakness which was reduced by fusing him with the second strongest alien Ben had.
 
Split personalities, Ben fused the two so that he wouldn't have to convince the others into making a decision. He did it to make Atomix stronger, not Alien X weaker.
 
@Eroij, I wouldn't waste my time arguing about the true power of Alien X on this site if I were you. Well, I at least wouldn't try arguing about making him Tier 0.

Even though you, possibly other users, and I know Alien X is truly up there, the people on this site refuse to accept WoG even though in Ben 10's case they're actually reliable since they make sense with what's canon.

I even got into an argument with someone about: Celestialsapiens being able to do anything as long as their personalities agree on it. We both know this has been shown and proven in the show, but if people are going to argue about something like that, I wouldn't waste my time trying to argue about something that Alien X hasn't shown.

(I do support Alien X being a higher tier btw if that wasn't clear.)
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
@Ever

Wasn't that about it being too dangerous or something? Also, is there confirmation for Atomic-X being stronger than Alien X? I genuinely can't remember.
Click to expand...
What do you mean? And I don't think there's a statement about Atomic-X's power in relation to Alien X, but I doubt Ben would make his aliens so unfathomably weaker with a fusion.
 
What do you mean? And I don't think there's a statement about Atomic-X's power in relation to Alien X, but I doubt Ben would make his aliens so unfathomably weaker with a fusion.

well the other guy have an exclamation already
 
@Dontae i'm not arguing whether alien x is omnipotent or not. You can NEVER prove someone is or isn't omnipotent, omnipotence is above logic. You can't have an omnipotent in a debate or argue about it, it is pointless, and please do not talk about that stuff here. If you truly believe Alien X is omnipotent, you also believe he can create a rock so heavy he can't lift it, yes or no?

Do you believe, if he wanted, that he could literally jump out of the TV-screen and become real? This is something a true omnipotent could do, fictional or not. Never use omnipotence to prove that a character is above another, Omnipotence>>>>>>> logic, without logic you can't debate.


@Theverlasting Regarding Atomic X:

1st:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3zwcfb

At 15:39: Ben easily gets knocked out of his Atomic X form by Maltruent,.

Notice how at 15:15 how little effect his punch had against Maltruent, also keep in mind how Atomic X is unable to defeat Maltruent despite it being 3 vs 1.

2nd: http://*******************.eu/watch/ben-10-omniverse-s8-ep10-a-new-dawn/

Maltruent gets destroyed easily, by the Anihilaarg. Alien X tanks the Anihilaarg with NO damage at all.

Alien X>>>> The Anihilaarg>>> Maltruent>>>> Atomic X. Ben's strongest alien is stated by the author and Paradox who knows of future Ben and his aliens, and in the alien character profile to be Alien X.

"Why does Ben use Atomic X if Alien x is stronger?" Pricelessly because Atomic X is weaker, is why he uses it and other aliens and not Alien X.

http://www.tomfreelance.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/P06-7_BEN10.jpg

Ben doesn't wanna use Alien X because it is too strong, as shown above, why would he then combine Alien x with another alien to make a stronger/ just as strong alien? He doesn't wanna use Alien X because the risk of destroying the universe is too great, yet he uses an alien equally as powerful? That makes no sense and is never stated or backed up by anything in the series. Many of Ben's hybrid aliens, including Atomic X are weaker than the original aliens.
 
@Eroij, True. But I think whatever superpower is considered "logically above all," Alien X can classify as whatever that is.
 
@Everyone who is wondering about Atomic-X being weaker than Alien X,


I seriously can't find post, but I am 100% sure that I once saw a post by Wyatt saying something like "Atomic-X has limits, but they are very high up."

Which would imply that he is weaker considering that the show tries to make Alien X limitless in terms of power.
 
Dontae123000 said:
@Everyone who is wondering about Atomic-X being weaker than Alien X,


I seriously can't find post, but I am 100% sure that I once saw a post by Wyatt saying something like "Atomic-X has limits, but they are very high up."

Which would imply that he is weaker considering that the show tries to make Alien X limitless in terms of power.
Click to expand...
the other guy alredy explaned this better then you.
 
it should be noted that seanse the creator the one who made that post reffers to alien X as omnipotent him calling Atomic X finite should further the idea that alien X is stronger then Atomic X
 
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