Two Questions about Tatsuya Shiba

DontTalk

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261

• Feb 6, 2017

• #1

1. Lina adressed some possible problem regarding the reasoning for his reaction speed rating some time ago. Did that ever went on anywhere?
2. He has "seeing through concepts" (whatever that is supposed to mean) and "some degree of conceptual manipulation" listed. Does someone know which application of his abilities this refers to?

 

Lina_Shields

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• Feb 10, 2017

• #2

1. So, reading from the Mahouka wiki in the article "Meteor line", it reads that:

2. His main ability that deals with concepts, especially decomposition, basically "removes" the fact that the said object existed in the first place. It is similar to how one would delete a file in your computer; although in this case, these "files" would be real-life objects.

Regrowth would be the opposite of decomposition. Instead of deleting said "file", it is being restored to a previous state in this case, similar to the "undo" button.

 

DontTalk

2,512

261

• Feb 10, 2017

• Thread starter
• #3

For the 1. point I think something went missing?

To 2.: Decomposition usually just disassembles things into molecules or if he goes really further into energy, no?

I don't think it literally makes it so that the object really never existed?

That aside both of that wouldn't be conceptual manipulation, I believe, as not the concept of the objects are affected (as in: one can rebuild the things that are destroyed this way and not all identical things are destroyed together with the destroyed thing, because the concept of the thing existing still is there), but just the objects themself.


Another thing: Shouldn't basically all Mahouka characters have Information Manipulation? It is more or less the mechanism behind all of their spells, no?

 

Lina_Shields

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• Feb 10, 2017

• #4

Whoops.

For point 1, to refer to this quote here:

And once the magic has been activated, even if interference is spread in the area of effect, the phenomena rewriting effect that 'light has moved' has already taken place.

This means that once Maya activates "Meteor line", it means that the beam of said light has already moved through the target. The only way that Maya's beam of light can be "dodged" is to stop said magic from being activated in the first place.

Tatsuya's Gram Demolition is strong enough for it to work in this case, as his Gram Demolition is specifically designed to prevent other magic from being activating. (and since Meteor line is a form of magic, this applies as well)

Here is the article.

 

Lucafriz

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• Apr 18, 2017

• #5

Out of random curiosity, doesn't this mean that any FTL character can dodge Meteor Line? If it funcitons by using beams of light to bore holes through targets, then wouldn't it be unable to affect any potential targets that can move faster than the beams of light (and any sort of light, for that matter) themselves?

 

Lina_Shields

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• Apr 18, 2017

• #6

Since Meteor Line is basically light concentrated and fired in a straight line, you can say that Meteor line is moving at lightspeed.

It's undodgeable in-universe because no one has reaction speed even close to lightspeed, meaning that once said Meteor Line is fired, you are gone.

But any character that is FTL in speed can dodge said attack, really.

 

Gemmysaur

VS Battles

Retired

6,850

1,499

• Apr 18, 2017

• #7

Probably yes considering it is described as light.

 

Lucafriz

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• Apr 18, 2017

• #8

Ah, ok, that makes sense. Considering the nature of the Mahouka universe and all that technical and theoretical stuff, I was wondering whether it was as straightforward as that or if there was some other weird "theroretical catch" to whether or not FTL characters can dodge Meteor Line. I suppose saying it is undodgeable in an actual matchup on this site (or anywhere else like Comicvine or Spacebattles) constitutes an NLF then.

 

Lina_Shields

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• Apr 18, 2017

• #9

Here is a different issue that came up recently.

Going by this page here, the description for Heavy Metal Burst states that heavy metals are basically ionized/transformed into plasma.

the magic disseminates amplified solar ions over a wide area by creating gas, an electromagnetic repulsive force, and increased high pressure

Basically, it means that said metal is ionized, turned into a beam, and fired at the opponent.

As for the speed of the beam, it reads that

The speed of the beam is about a hundred times the speed of sound.

This is stated in Volume 11, Chapter 13 from the novel.


As for what this means, since the beam/light, in this case, is explicitly stated to be only 100 times the speed of sound instead of moving at the speed of light, it means that Tatsuya/Naotsugu's reaction speed gets downgraded.

However, the statement that comes after the previous paragraph says that 60 meters were covered in under 2 milliseconds. As for how fast this is, we calculate the value of this to be

• Velocity = [60 m] / [0.002 seconds] = 30,000 m/s. Mach 88.16

As for the speed of the characters related to this, Naotsugu barely deflected this incoming beam, and Tatsuya was having serious concerns about whether he could even dodge said beam or not.

 

Cronut

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18

• Apr 18, 2017

• #10

I would accept this downgrade if it wasn't for the fact that Tatsuya has the Baryon Lance.



10000 km/s is aprox. 0.033c. That's Sub-Relativistic in our world, but in the Mahouka-verse that would be "FTL".

 

Lina_Shields

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• Apr 18, 2017

• #11

The actual value of 10,000 km/s would take priority over the FTL assumption, as the speed of light is generally 300,000 km/s.

Baryon Lance would still be classified as Sub-Relativistic according to our speed system. Not to mention nowhere it is stated that the Baryon Lance even comes close to the speed of Meteor Line, which is basiscally a line of light being fired at the opponent (thus moving at actual lightspeed).

No one can even dodge Baryon Lance btw, so it only applies to attack speed.

 

Cronut

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• Apr 18, 2017

• #12

Well, that settles it, I guess.

Oh, btw, I did not find the Baryon Lance in his profile. Can we add it?

 

Lina_Shields

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• Apr 24, 2017

• #13

Feel free do add Baryon Lance to his profile. You also need to add in

• A description for what Baryon Lance is, and how it works.
• Its speed [moving at 10% lightspeed]

 

Lucafriz

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3

• Apr 24, 2017

• #14

Eclar said:

I would accept this downgrade if it wasn't for the fact that Tatsuya has the Baryon Lance.

Click to expand...

10000 km/s is aprox. 0.033c. That's Sub-Relativistic in our world, but in the Mahouka-verse that would be "FTL".

How can a given speed be Sub-Relativistic in a given universe and FTL somewhere else? Sub-Relativistic is Sub-Relativistic and FTL is FTL, regardless. To suggest otherwise would be to say that a value equals 5 in one world and 94 in another, which doesn't make sense to me.

 

Cronut

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18

• Apr 24, 2017

• #15

That's why I put "" in FTL, because it is inconsistent with RL. I apologize if I did not input that inconsistency properly.

 

Gemmysaur

VS Battles

Retired

6,850

1,499

• Apr 24, 2017

• #16

Except the Mahouka-verse's definition of lightspeed is explicitly different from ours.

How can one universe have hypersonic humans while the other has normal ones?


Surely humans can't be that fast right? Perhaps it was the bullets that were moving slowly?
See what I'm getting at? Not to be sarcastic but that's the best I can think of in this sleep-deprived state of happiness I'm in at the moment.

Not everything that applies in one verse applies in another, same with laws or fundamentals or other big words of reality. Especially when we're given explicit evidence.

Not to say the whole thing is correct though. I'm gonna have to ask who said the words, "the speed of light is probably hundreds of times faster than the speed of sound" and is his/her words credible enough to be taken seriously, as there are those characters who have varying degrees of stupid.

I'm also questioning the validity of the translation, and whether or not it is the official one and is without errors. It's extremely varying in speeds, which to summarize the thread:

However in the present interval, the distance of sixty meters was spanned in less than two milliseconds. Which is the same as being instantaneous.

Mach 88

The beam just now was as fast as the speed of light.

SoL

The speed of light is probably about a hundred times the speed of sound.

Sub-rel

 

Lucafriz

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• Apr 24, 2017

• #17

Oh, I'm not questioning one universe having Relativistic speed humans and another universe not having them, because fiction. But given that consistent measurements of speed and whatnot is such a fundamental concept (and frankly, that's practically a requirement when pitting a character against another), I find that bit harder to swallow than one place having "mutants" and another not.

 

Lina_Shields

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• Apr 24, 2017

• #18

When the novel said "speed of light", the light in question was an ionized plasma beam, thus the speed value of the beam =/= actually lightspeed in this case.

There was one attack that is considered in the novels to be true light, and the attack is described to be basically undodgeable when it is fired. Meteor Stream it is called...

 

Lucafriz

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• Apr 24, 2017

• #19

Lina Shields said:

When the novel said "speed of light", the light in question was an ionized plasma beam, thus the speed value of the beam =/= actually lightspeed in this case.
There was one attack that is considered in the novels to be true light, and the attack is described to be basically undodgeable when it is fired. Meteor Stream it is called...

Click to expand...

So essentially, it's not "true light". Yeah, that would have made sense. If it was actual light and it's somehow faster or not as fast as actual light in other universes, something's wrong, in my mind.

I suppose these "statements of absolutes", like Meteror Stram being "undodgeable" are only applicable in-universe, since saying that characters from franchises outside Mahouka being unable to dodge it is a NLF.