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John Egbert vs Frisk

So from what i saw,i think this is a stomp.

Frisk can one shot.

John can't use his windy powers (unless i missing something that says he could here)

John has no way past her immortality

She has a lot of abilities to use.

John's best advantage here that i saw is his time suspending hammer, if it can be spammed it could work, but how can he incap her?
 
Note: Nothing un the OP implies that I restricted John's 2-A attack. If my knowledge of how we treat Higher D AP is correct, this should allow him to bypass their Regenerationn.

What keeps this from being a stomp in John's favor is that his 2-A attack isn't something he can fully control and can only be activated if he feels overwhelmed. Frisk could kill him before he gets to that point. So, both have wincons.

Also, the gap is only 4x. Likely lower sense John gets stronger over the course of Acts 1 - 4 and his 9-A feats are done in the early game. AP needed to one-shot is 7.5x.
 
Higher D AP is no longer something that bypasses regen though.
 
When we did away with the old High-Godly. There's no logical reason for it to stop Low-Godly since it's just AP at the end of the day, being higher dimensional in scope doesn't mean that it can somehow harm one's non-corporeal essence through sheer power.
 
There are a few questions that could keep this fair however.

1. Under Frisk's Acasualty, it's mentioned that they can remember resets. Would John's Acausality grant him the same thing or is it a case by case "only if they show the ability too" thing?

The reason I ask is because I want to humor tge idea that John could force an inconclusive with sheer skill? I know it's a strectch but I want this to be fair dammit

If nit, I can just switch to Asgore.
 
I..don't think so? It comes down to who has more DT in Undertale, not sure that would apply to John. Even Asriel doesn't exactly remember what happens during your fight with him despite having Acausality himself. I'd have to ask around to be sure.
 
In that case, I think this is fair. So long as both can win.

I myself do have an opinion on this fight, but I'll wait for others to comment. I can provide answers if anyone has any questions on what John can do.
 
Hmm, well Frisk is around 3 to 4 times stronger than John so while she doesn't one-shot, she can deal some major damage with her attacks. Both have comparable stamina and range (normally) though John has an advantage in both. Personally, I see Frisk landing enough shots to put down John before she's knocked out.

Does he use the rocket pack often?
 
To be fair, John's summons can help wear them down.

John uses his rocket pack fairly often, mostly for traversal. He flippantly loves using it, though, so I can easily see him switching to it once he realizes the strength gap.
 
She has the stamina to fight hordes of monsters continuously after traversing a frigid and volcanic landscape without rest, add that onto her rather massive AP advantage and I don't think the summons will be of much issue. Especially considering how she's used to dealing with unconventional enemies.

If he doesn't use the rocket pack from the get-go then Frisk can injure him pretty early on, considering that he'd have no reason to assume that Frisk is particularly strong. Of course, once John gets away on his pack then she's pretty limited in what she can do to hurt him. In this case, it becomes a stamina competition since Frisk can't reach him unless he comes close and he can't really land a hit with her agility considering how she's used to Danmaku.
 
I mean, so can John and his summons. Hell, John has tanked being eaten alive and fought through an entire planet's worth of imps in the span of a day.
 
Difference is that Frisk can put them down in two or three blows at best, especially if this her at her peak in 9-A. The stamina was mostly to show that she isn't worried about being worn down by far weaker opponents for the course of the fight, I'm well aware that John surpasses her in that regard. Speaking off, he'll already be at a disadvantage in that regard at the beginning of the fight considering that Frisk would have gotten a shot in and injured him.
 
Granted. Although John can heal himself or have his summons heal him to try and compensate. Although, Frisk can do the same, extending the stamina bout further.
 
Do you mind if I give my personal in depth analysis tomorrow? I'm rather enjoying this debate and I can respect your thinking.
 
Would incapacitation even be considered a win if after Frisk just rewinded time to before they were incapacitated? And that's assuming the incap lasts one hour, when even their nightly sleep lasts a few minutes.

If he somehow remembered resets, I'd argue he simply loses his will to fight eventually. Frisk's whole character revolves around being so determinated to do everything that they will keep dying over and over to kill everyone they loved just to see what happens, multiple times on top of it to see if anything changes.
 
Under SBA, it should count. As for how long it would take, I'm not sure if you can compare their normal sleep with actually being knocked unconscious though I could be wrong.
 
Planck69 said:
Under SBA, it should count. As for how long it would take, I'm not sure if you can compare their normal sleep with actually being knocked unconscious though I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
I count of disagree with that.

Why would incapacitation count if it never actually happens? We don't count win on death if the character rewinds time, so why would win by incap be different?
 
Thelastmlg said:
I thought it was 10^8 joules while the baseline was 10^7 joules?
Click to expand...
Baseline is .005 Tons of TNT (don't remember the joule count). Frisk is above .024 Tons.
 
Baseline is .005 Tons of TNT (don't remember the joule count). Frisk is above .024 Tons.

Okay then, 4.8x higher.
 
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