Paper Mario & Dimentio Upgrade

Alright. So, yes, I know I did this before, but it was honestly a mess. So, I'm here again, but with a different set of feats. And, well, let's get started, shall we?

Alright, I'm gonna start with the Dimentio portion. So, in Super Paper Mario, specifically the beginning, Merlon recites a line from the Light Prognosticus that states something important: "And in the end, it will swallow all existence... All worlds, all dimensions..."

Now, Merlon also states that it's a rip in the dimensional fabric of Space, so, when he states it will swallow all dimensions, he's talking about all spatial dimensions. Plus, the most common and, only, at least to my knoeledge, differing definition of dimension is 'universe.' Well, 'worlds,' in that sentence refers to universes, since, and I qoute, "the tower utilizes dimensional energy to beam people to other worlds." And each Chapter is it's own universe. Whenever dimension is mentioned in this game, it's spatial, the only exception being Dimentio's Dimension D. So, the dark one (Dimentio) and the Chaos Heart can desttoy all Spatial Dimensions, so, based off of this (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1BvKt4pRWmE), our world has 11 Dimensions, which Scientists already believe... for the most part.

Regardless, so Super Dimentio has enough power to completely obliterate the 11th Dimension. That's either REALLY powerful 11th Dimensional Beings, or 12th Dimensional Beings. So, that's powerful. However, I'm not finished yet. Both Prognosticus, Light and Dark, state that nothing and no one can stop the dark one (Dimentio), and the Chaos Heart. This includes characters like Queen Jaydes, who has power over life and death in the Marioverse. So, Dimentio's above life and death hax, which likely gives him Immortality on some scale, and all four of the Sages, most notably Merloo. Why? Well...

"This stained-glass window depicts one of the ancient sages, Merloo. This sage was very wise and was even said to have written the Light Prognosticus... He was also a great magician who could control dimensions..."

But hey, there's one last thing. Dimentio likely wrote the Dark Prognosticus which competes with the Light Prognosticus throughout the game. And both say that Luigi determines which Prognosticus pulls through. And at the end of the game, Luigi chose Dark...

So... How did Light win? That'll be explained now, and it ties into Paper Mario's upgrade.

So, Mario. All the info needed for Mario's upgrade you get from the underground bartender in Flipside. So, the first bit I'd like you guys to know is this: "(to Mario, talking about the Sages) They were, like, a thousand times smarter than you or me."

So the ancients were thousands of times smarter than Mario and co. who conquered and solved the Whoa Zone, which was practically stated outright to be an impossible labyrinth. Keep that in mind while reading this next story, Restoring Pure Hearts.

"So yeah, the Pure Hearts are powerful treasures created by the Ancients. The secret of that power is the ability to detect and amplify love energy. Some among the Ancients believed strongly that the power of love was infinite. They believed this power to be so great that no forces could ever defeat it... They believed it would last and survive unchanged for the 1,500 prophesied years... This is what they believed about the power of love. The power of the Pure Hearts. As long as there's love in the world, the Pure Hearts can overcome any setback."

So, infinite power. Now, I"m not saying Paper Mario should be Tier 0, heavens no. But, he should be infinitely superior to Super Dimentio, at least. This backs that up (Super Dimentio's card description): This monstrous clown was created by Dimrntio. He used Luigi and the Chaos Heart to create it. In the end, it was no match for the power of love."

So, damn... After all that, may we upgrade them? Also, I am willing to answer anyone's questions if there are any.

We can't assume that the universe is 11-dimensional because ours is.

Good one, except... Well, the Mario is connected in some way. The planet he lives on always resembles Earth (heck, in Color Splash, that Earth actually shows our continents), and in Galaxy 2, the second eorld? Our solar system..

Also, there are humans in Mario, my most notable example being Mario Golf.

This is like saying Palkia is Low 1-B because it created the concept of spatial dimensions in the Pokemon verse, and our multiverse possibly runs on String Theory, therefore the Pokemon verse is 11-D. It involves too many assumptions to be usable in the slightest.

Except the difference is the video I linked explains much more than String Theory does. And I'm saying that Mario lives in our universe, therefore abides by our rules. There's not much implying that the Pokemonverse is our universe, while that deffers from the Marioverse, which DOES have connections to our own, which I mentioned.

You linked a song remix. You also assume the Mario universe is our universe, which isn't even confirmed to abide by String Theory. It's just the most prominent theory. Unless a verse is stated to abide by String Theory or hints towards it are given, we cannot make the assumption, especially not from things as loose as this.

Oh, sorry for the last part. Here's the ACTUAL video I wanted to link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1BvKt4pRWmE

Anyway, alright. Say, Dimentio's portion is wrong. What about Mario's?

It's still linking to the song, for me.

Mario and co. with the Pure Hearts should definitely be superior to Super Dimentio, but I don't think enough so to justify a whole tier jump.

Well, that's... Stupid. Go on YouTube and search TEDxBoulder - Thad Roberts - Visualizing Dlevdn Dimensions. I'm sorry, my phone's being really stupid.

Anyway, I would like to say that because of the power of love they did defy a precognitive prophecy that was correct the whole time otherwise. And plus, there's not anything saying otherwise. But, hey, no upgrade is fine by me. I'm just showing the results of my own research and verifying it with you guys... mostly...

Will do.

Indeed. The Pure Hearts and Super Dimentio are definitely some of Nintendo's most powerful artifacts and characters, there's no denying that.

I agree with Azathoth and Promestein.

Well, I have already proved that dimension was referring to the space-time in first and second discussions did here, but anyway...

After all, you can prove that the String Theory applies to Marioverse? For part of our Multiverse does not prove that, since String Theory isn't a scientific unanimity. I do not agree with take it as Tier 1, unless you have proof.

As for the other powers as Immortality to be beyond life and death, I got also already thinking about it and asked @Ant here. In fact Jaydes would not be able to stop it, but that does not justify much if not explicit statements that, or at least, that's what I understood.

If the power of the Pure Hearts was infinitely greater than the Chaos Heart, Paper Mario would have defeated Super Dimentio in a single hit. The Purity Heart and the Chaos Heart are very close, if the power of the infinite is the other will also be. Well, have infinite power would mean an upgrade for him in any way? IDK for sure...

That depends on how much time you spend grinding. You could one-shot Super Dimentio if you spent days grinding your level, so I don't think that's a valid argument.

Regardless, we've all settled on Super Dimentio staying 2-B, but I still think Paper Mario deserves an upgrade to "Possibly 2-A."

The reasons for that being that it was stated by extremely intelligent and precognitive sages fron the Marioverse and strongly held as fact by them. Nothing conflicts it since the Purity Heart is unmatched in the Marioverse, stated by both Prognosticus to be the only hope, and it pulled through. Plus, Super Dimentio's card description backs the entire thing up by saying Super Dimentio stood no chance against the Purity Heart to begin with.

Anyone with me on this one? Not definite 2-A, but Possibly 2-A.

As well "grinding"? I do not understand your point...

2-B to 2-A is a large gap, you can be stronger than a 2-B and still be 2-B, it's not like Mario stomped Dimentio.

I agree with Talon. Paper Mario could've annihilated a trillion Dimentios with a mere blink and still qualify for 2-B due to how huge the gap is. Which is far from what he actually did. Whether you consider game mechanics or the story. His tier is completely fine where it is.

According to the tier system, the gap is practically infinite, but this upgrade implies Paper Mario to be infinitely superior to Super Dimentio, which would check all the boxes perfectly.

Also, by grinding I mean defeating countless enemies to get Experience to level up.

Ryu, Ant, Cross. With all due respect, can you please close this thread? This is the fifth time someone brought up a topic like this despite the fact I constantly keep explaining that the concept of flipping btw the 2D and 3D dimensions is nothing more than a pun on the figure of a paper. I'm getting tired of these assumptions that SPM verse might have 11 dimension over the mere concept of flipping btw 2D and 3D despite the game never going beyond that. And I ask not to touch on this topic again when someone else brings it up. Thank you.

@Dino

Do not you think best to put some kind of warning or note on their profiles as this kind of thread?

Metal Mario875 said:

According to the tier system, the gap is practically infinite, but this upgrade implies Paper Mario to be infinitely superior to Super Dimentio, which would check all the boxes perfectly.

Also, by grinding I mean defeating countless enemies to get Experience to level up.

Click to expand...

If Mario was infinitely above Dimentio, it wouldn't have been a fight at all.

Not all 2-As can destroy infinite universes.

@Talon: Just like how Paper Mario should reasonably stomp everything from normal Mario in Paper Jam... But didn't.

No game is going to just, let you destroy everything in your path, because then it's boring. Also, realistically, you CAN stomp Super Dimentio. Just level up alot...

See? This argument based off of game mechanics goes two ways, then we listen to the story and, surprise surprise, it shows that Paper Mario realistically stomped Super Dimentio.

"In the end, it was no match for the power of love."

"Some among the ancients believed strongly that the power of love was infinite."

Having no match essentially means your in a tier of your own, no one can match you, which backs up Paper Mario being infinitely superior to Super Dimentio, which puts him at infinite universes, 2-A.

Metal Mario875 said:

Having no match essentially means your in a tier of your own, no one can match you

Click to expand...

No.

There can be massive differences in AP without moving up a tier, as the differences between the low ends and high ends of a tier can be immense. This keeps on being said. And "believed strongly" doesn't really mean much.

Closing this thread.