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Madara Uchiha vs Sosuke Aizen

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I personally think Aizen takes this based on pure BS. Kyoka Suigetsu is so damn hax it can even work against a god who can see the future. Not to mention that he merged with it now and you're under his hypnosis just by looking at him as shown with Yhwach. He also is still the greatest Kido user in bleach, fast enough to make Yhwach think he was fighting 3 people at once, AND it's possible that he's still transcendent, but that's a story for another time. All in all, Aizen is smarter than Madara from what I've seen and since this is fresh off the chair Aizen, he's even stronger than his previous transcendent power with hax, BFR doesn't work on him, he's a Soul and can sense spirit energ so Madara's clones wouldn't do much and they can both regenerate, although Aizen is actually immortal just to back it all up
 
I just wanted to ask this: Which Tier 5 Madara is this? The one that's "Low 5-B" or "At least Low 5-B"?
 
@Riptide: Yeah i'm just really curious considering Madara has like two Tier 5 stats whereas Aizen has one...
 
Hmm interesting two of my favorite characters from each verse.

Aizen would likely take this though since he can actually seal Madara with a Kido or his kyoka Suigetsu will get the job done either way.

Madara Regenerationn isn't a problem here and TSB won't take Aizen down due to immortality. Teleportation would give Aizen an advantage also.

Aizen 7/10 difficulties.
 
Madara has impressive Regenerationn, but he can be hurt pretty easily tbh. They can both regen but Aizen has so many Kidos he can just seal him. He doesn't neccesarily need to hurt him, he's also smarter
 
Madara hasn't impressive Regenerationn but he has durability at moon level + . Yeah , i forgets about kido seal , if aizen seals madara instead of trying to hurt madara , i gives this for Aizen
 
Oh okay. Then Madara's Limbo clones should be of some use here. And since they exist on a different plane, Aizen wont be able to put them under KS's control or use Hado on them, or even sense them.
 
strongest version of Madara wins. He can even cast Mugen Tsukoyomi (which is not your regular genjutsu), the TSB cannot be easily destroyed by aizen, and maybe they can bypass Aizen's regen. The limbo clones would give gim a run for his money evem if KS is casted because madara can sense Aizen thanks to the Sage Chakra and being Juubi jinchuriki. And this is forgetting the chibaku tensei ge can use to seal aizen if needed. About the sealing kido, I dont remember him using it to seal anyone as strong as him, so Idk if it would work on Madara.
 
I'm not saying Madara will use Izanagi to get out of KS, he can sense Aizen's energy and pinpoint his location. I was just correcting the statement.
 
ScarletFirefly said:
I'm not saying Madara will use Izanagi to get out of KS, he can sense Aizen's energy and pinpoint his location. I was just correcting the statement.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure it's not that easy, especially since nobody else has ever done it in bleach manga, even when they know they are under KS. It is complete hypnosis after all, not just your typical illusion or genjutsu or whatever.
 
Yamamoto was able to sense Aizen's energy coming from his sword. And Madara also has the Sharingan which grants very enhanced perception and the user can easily recognize when he's under an illusion.
 
As I said already aswell as this being stated already, KS isn't an illusion, also I said even when you know you are under it's spell theres not much you can do about it as shown in the manga.
 
Perilouss said:
As I said already aswell as this being stated already, KS isn't an illusio
Click to expand...
Really? He manipulates your senses by making you see/hear things that aren't there. How does it not classify as an illusion? Genjutsu in Naruto can do the exact same thing.
 
I could say that since the Rinnengan is the only way to resist the Mugen Tsukoyomi, a genjutsu with pretty much the same effects of KS and that cannot be escaped by any conventional means (if only being a jinchuriky would free you from that, sasuke wouldnt protect Naruto with the susanoo), Madara could resist the effects of KS because its starting to sound nlf to me.
 
Mugen Tsukuyomi is fundamentally different from KS. With Tsukuyomi, you're rendered immobile, into a sleep that lasts as long as you're under it's effect and start dreaming about your greatest desires. Plus you still need the moon to cast it.

With Kyoka Suigetsu, you can still move, think and fight. However, you're perception of reality is distorted due to the manipualting of the 5 senses. Aizen merely leads victims to the desired actions, the judgement is still their own.
 
Well, you are put into your desired dreams because thats what madara wants you to see, its not like he doesnt have control over the illusions. The point was that both have been shown as unbreakab├▒e illusions, doesnt matter if you can or cannot interact with the outside since every contact you have will be manipulated by the illusion caster. The moon part I thought was for the planetary range, I think that he should be able to cast it with that third eye.
 
ScarletFirefly said:
Perilouss said:
As I said already aswell as this being stated already, KS isn't an illusio
Click to expand...
Really? He manipulates your senses by making you see/hear things that aren't there. How does it not classify as an illusion? Genjutsu in Naruto can do the exact same thing.
Click to expand...
Genjutsu isn't the same scale as KS, Genjutsu can be snapped out of, KS cannot, KS lasts until Aizen wills it to stop, Genjutsu eventually wears off (bar infinite tsukuyomi), experiencing actual pain rather than illusionary pain stops Genjutsu, this doesn't happen with KS, etc
 
Perilouss said:
Genjutsu isn't the same scale as KS, Genjutsu can be snapped out of, KS cannot, KS lasts until Aizen wills it to stop, Genjutsu eventually wears off (bar infinite tsukuyomi), experiencing actual pain rather than illusionary pain stops Genjutsu, this doesn't happen with KS, etc
Click to expand...
Yes Genjutsu can be snapped out of, with the help of someone to disrupt your chakra. However Aizen has no partner here so that's not an option. Yes Genjutsu eventually wears off, however if the user doesn't stop using chakra, it won't, unless countered by outside events.

Also experiencing pain can snap you out of some Genjutsu, not all. During the battle with Danzo, Sasuke was able to put a low-level Genjutsu on Danzo even though Danzo was in immense pain by his wounds.
 
I could agree that Aizen's KS would affect Madara's senses bar eyesight thanks to those beautiful Rinnengans and the third no so beautiful one. Given rinnengan gives a very strong resistance to visual illusions (like Mugen tsukoyomi).
 
@Scarletfirefly

Shinigami logically should be able to snap out of genjutsu, as they have their Zanpakuto spirit, which should let them know, similar to how jinchurikis have their tailed beast spirit to snap them out. Think about vasto lorde ichigo. Aizen even has hogyoku too.
 
@Perilouss

Hogyoku doesn't have a will of it's own. It's just a tool for achieving what you desire and is not affected by will, but desire.

The Zanpakuto is different from a Bijuu as it is an extension of the Shinigami's soul, not a completely different one. Further reinforcing this is the fact that Asauchis take a different form according to each Shinigami.

If that were the case, the sword could just guide the ones affected by KS by telling them where to strike.
 
@ScarletFirefly

Zanpakuto is not an extention of the shinigami's soul. It has a mind and body of its own. It even has thoughts and feelings of its own, evedince is with Yumichika's zanpakuto. Further implications lie in chapter 111 and 112. In chapter 118 Renji is literally speaking to his zanpakuto and they have a clear information gap, which wouldn't be the case if Zabimaru was just an extension of his soul. To achieve bankai, one must even learn who their zanpakuto really is for many years. I believe there is more evidence to suggest that they are seperate souls rather than just an extension.

Even if they were extension (which I think it's safe to say they're not), hypothetically if they were an extension genjutsu has shown no signs of spiritual manipulation.

And I'm not gonna say how KS is a complete hypnosis AGAIN, I'm beginning to sound like a broken record.
 
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