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Undertale revisions 3 but please god let these be accepted so i can make more profiles

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I'm still calling Frisk a she.


Undyne

She should have Weapon Mastery as she is both an expert with her signature spears and with other weapons, to the point where she uses them as silverware like you would forks or knives

She should also have Limited Telekinesis for her spears

Minor Power Nullification, can passively keep someone from selling something



Toriel

Can erase energy constructs such as Flowey's

Heat Manipulation, her fire magic can replace the power and functions of an ove

Alphys upgraded Toriel's phone just like she did with Frisk's, meaning she now gets all the hax that Frisk does with the upgraded phone, giving her Flight (via jetpack), Dimensional Storage, a bomb defusal function, and most importantly, a keychai.

She also needs a better Intelligence description based on these feats:

Has read every book in her house many times, including history books, plant encyclopedias, etc

So smart that she prepared an entire school curriculum in the time it takes a child to have a short nap

Has been alive for the same amount of time as Asgore, who has been alive and fighting for thousands of years, maybe even before written history even bega, meanwhile written history itself began over 5000 years ago

I would also like to point out that Toriel doesn't hold back against just anyone, only Frisk because they were a child.



Asgore

Better description for AP and Durability: While I'm not looking for a tier change at this moment, including these in the explanations would make the profile look better.

Undyne explains that even her killing Frisk would be mercy compared to what Asgore could do

Is among the small group of people that fought against Undertale humans and survived

Flowey states that he would never have been able to defeat Asgore, in a situation where he didn't have LOVE

It should also be mentioned that Frisk had better items as well as stronger Determination during their fight.

Otherwise:

Heat Manipulation, fire magic can passively light things on fire and keep them on fire for hours

It should be mentioned that when Asgore crossed Hotland, he did it before the place even had elevators.

Resistance to cold weather, Asgore is Santa Claus, meaning he has inevitably survived the cold of Snowdin due to being well known there, Snowdin is so cold that even Undyne herself finds it significantly cold, and it's snow is so cold it can withstand the middle of Hotland (How did you miss this, you even said Asgore is Santa Claus on Resistance to Heat Manipulation)


• Papyrus

On this CRT, it was agreed that Papyrus's Intelligence should be changed to make him sound less, well, stupid, but it was never implemented to the page… still.



• Alphys


Athletic Human Lifting Strength, easily strong enough to carry both Papyrus and Undyne on her head at the same time

Limited Magnetism Manipulation, can immobilize people using EM fields, even if they are swifter than people on Frisk's level

Healing via Instant Noodles

Alphys needs MUCH better Intelligence description, based on these feats and the ones already present:

The person who previously held Alphys's position invented the CORE, which turns thermal heat into magical electricity and serves as a power plant for the entire Underground, and she reportedly works faster than he did

Figures out a highly complicated math problem in 2 seconds flat, correctly guesses the number of flies in a jar with a glance, and perfectly guesses the number of n's in Mettaton's name in a situation where the number of n's was rapidly growing, all in a row

Was able to operate and help Frisk under Mettaton's nose even when he was standing right next to her



• Frisk


My blog on why Frisk should scale to the higher tiers.

Frisk's moves such as Draw, Flex, and Clear Mind need to be added to their Notable Attacks/Techniques and not just chill out in her hax.

Durability Negation, the game explains that Frisk could have used SAVE and LOAD to "SAVE over" Asriel's existence thus defeating him, despite Asriel being unaffected by paradoxes. It is undisclosed whether this would kill Asriel or simply incapacitate him.

For the love of God, would someone please fix the typo in, "Flight (With they jet-pack)". It's been there for YEARS.

Frisk can also regenerate health by SAVEing.

Invulnerability, As all STATs are canon, INV also exists. The Cloudy Glasses and the Torn Notebook amplify this ability, they don't give it in the first place.

Immortality (Type 1) as a SOUL, when UT humans are killed they leave behind their SOUL, which stays alive for millennia at least (as Asgore had all 6 SOULs he'd collected over the past few thousand years); SOULs retain their mind and sapience, such as when they responded to Frisk's calls for help.

Empathic Manipulation:

Can affect people emotionally with her words even if they have no idea what she said

Frisk has the ability to ACT, which can calm dow even the most violent enemies, and it is stated every enemy has a different way to be calmed dow

The Faded Ribbon makes her look cute enough to the point where even Bloodlusted opponents (such as Undyne or the Amalgamates) will hit her less hard

Dream Manipulation; Can use and hold dreams like solid objects and even sell them to vendors, can make dreams come true

Resistance to Absorption for the same reason she has Resistance to Soul Manipulation, Photoshop Flowey released a blast of light that absorbed all of the souls in the entire Underground, and Frisk was the only person who was unaffected by it, despite being in the epicenter of the attack

Resistance to Possession: In the event that Frisk were to kill enough people, Chara will possess Frisk, but Frisk will always break free unless her intentions exactly match that of Chara's.

Limited Immunity to Power Mimicry, SOUL power (including Determination) cannot be created artificially

Telepathy, seems to have the ability to read minds.

Clairvoyance (via this), can tell people's weaknesses by looking at them

Other evidence of Enhanced Senses includes sensing a door opening all the way from Snowdi and sensing a phone signal getting deflected (and could tell you exactly who did it), although this may be another example of Clairvoyance

Power Nullification, outside of healing her completely 3.25 times over(if no LOVE gained), the Hush Puppy nullifies all dog magic whatsoever, or will stop a dog from casting magic at all

Should at least scale to Pre-Flowey Asriel, stamina-wise, who walked from where Chara fell all the way to New Home on the opposite side of the Underground, which is 32,977 square meters (20.5 miles) long

Whoever writes the Intelligence sections for the Undertale profiles either, no offense, sucks at it, or didn't know these following feats existed.

Bested Asgore in a fight, who has been alive for at least 5,000 years(see Toriel), not to mention had been training specifically to fight humans for millennia, fought in the front lines in a war against humans and was one of the only survivors, and had killed 6 humans in the past

Was capable of dodging all of Mad Mew Mew's attacks absolutely flawlessly

Even when she lost her SAVE and LOAD, she's been shown to handle danmaku insanely well

Can recognize complex 3D shapes with a glance, even ones that Chara was unable to do the same with

Perfectly understands and uses a language spoken only by wiggling and has an entire conversation in that way, despite first seeing it only moments before (doubles as a Multilingualism feat)

Frisk was able to navigate the CORE even though Mettaton deliberately changed its layout to counter Frisk's deduction so that she would get lost and perish



• Vulki


Smoke Manipulation (via this)

Magma Manipulation, and Resistance to such (via this)

Durability Negation, can lower someone's natural Durability by touching them


• Sans

Telepathy, felt the presence of Frisk's mind in the back of her body despite being possessed almost completely by Chara

Invulnerability Negation, His attacks ignore Frisk's INV, which is explained above

Air Manipulation, created a self-sustaining tornado in his room

Possible Dimensional Travel explained here



• Muffet


Statistics Reduction, Muffet's Purple Mode (webs) automatically sets the opponent's speed down to a certain amount, and their speed cannot be increased in this state, even with Sea Tea (See Trivia)

Her webs are so strong that the same person that could cause over 21 thousand damage to Muffet(enough to oneshot her 17.4 times over) could not break out of the webs

Muffet's spider webs can also block any type of signal

More accurate stamina rating via these feats:

Feels almost nothing from being injured, in fact it seems to please her

Has the stamina to fight against Frisk for 17 turns in a row, and would have been enthusiastic to go even longer if she hadn't received a telegram

The Intelligence description on Muffet is actually good, but it lacks her fighting skills.

Muffet reveals that Mettaton went out of his way to hire her , and for a great amount of money, meaning he knew Muffet would have the best shot at fighting Frisk other than himself



• Annoying Dog


Regardless of his tier, WoG states that the Annoying Dog got ten times more powerful as of 2018

Power Bestowal, gave Frisk infinite health as part of the test to see if she was fit to enter his room

Acausality (Type 1), when Frisk passes his test, the door to his room opens. Frisk may then LOAD her SAVE and go to his house in Snowdin, where the door is still open. Frisk would have LOADed to before the test itself started and thus before the door was ever opened, but the door was still open. (The game makes no mention of the door having to be re-opened, which Frisk would have also sensed.)

Transmutation , turns himself into a living bomb and his tail into a fuse

Sealing, sealed the Donation Box so Frisk couldn't put any more GOLD into it, sealed a room so Frisk couldn't enter it (and, quite possibly, so Mad Mew Mew couldn't leave)

Duplication (via this)

Plot Manipulation, can create new modes and different possible outcomes in Undertale such as Hard Mode

Life Manipulation, created both humans and monsters inside his game, casually created a miniature sun that gives life

Law Manipulation, can make up new laws for his different modes, such as making it physically impossible to take more than 3 pieces of candy from a bowl

Age Manipulation, aged everything in the Dog Shrine massively, so much so that he fossilized a boom box

Willpower Manipulation, made something lose the will to fight

Mind Manipulation, can play music that can psychologically affect people and their desires

Spatial Manipulation, made a pocket room under Papyrus's sink merely to troll Frisk

Conceptual Manipulation, created Chara, who embodies the concept of STATs, as part of his reality



• Chara:


Fear Manipulation, made Doggo feel a chill all over his body even though he didn't know who he was fighting or where she was
 
I'm pretty sure that making the same thread with most of it already being rejected isn't a good way to make people accept the revisions.

Also like for the one before, a some of it is more based on headcanon than actual facts.
 
Hmm, In that case I do not know what to do here. I cannot force them to help out after all.
 
Most of what I see here is a repeat from a previous thread where many abilities were rejected

I don't have time to inspect everything fully, but based on that alone I'd be hesitant to clear the revision
 
Okay. Thank you for helping out. Should we close this thread then?
 
I wouldn't go that far. If some other staff member is okay with going through everything, I wouldn't stop them; I just don't want to do so for a thread where a good chunk of stuff was already evaluated previously
 
Andytrenom said:
Most of what I see here is a repeat from a previous thread where many abilities were rejected
I don't have time to inspect everything fully, but based on that alone I'd be hesitant to clear the revision
...No they weren't? In fact most of the arguments against these went against the story itself.
 
I agree with Andy.

Most of the abilities were rejected, mainly because of a part of them being headcanons.
 
Hoo boy, alright.

I absolutely love Undertale, so I'll take a good look through this and give my input on things. This'll take a while though.
 
Super Ascended Sean Pazdera said:
Weapon Mastery is fine. I'm fairly sure this should even be a prerequisite of basically any Royal Guard (though I'm not actually suggesting that should be added to all their profiles).

That could also be Homing Attack.

I'm not sure on that one.

Can erase energy constructs such as Flowey's

Heat Manipulation, her fire magic can replace the power and functions of an ove

Alphys upgraded Toriel's phone just like she did with Frisk's, meaning she now gets all the hax that Frisk does with the upgraded phone, giving her Flight (via jetpack), Dimensional Storage, a bomb defusal function, and most importantly, a keychain.

She also needs a better Intelligence description based on these feats:

Has read every book in her house many times, including history books, plant encyclopedias, etc

So smart that she prepared an entire school curriculum in the time it takes a child to have a short nap

Has been alive for the same amount of time as Asgore, who has been alive and fighting for thousands of years, maybe even before written history even bega, meanwhile written history itself began over 5000 years ago

I would also like to point out that Toriel doesn't hold back against just anyone, only Frisk because they were a child.

Not sure on that.

Given that she uses "fire magic", this seems more like Fire Manipulation. Given that stoves use fire-based burners, I think it's the most likely option here.

This is likely Gifted, if not Genius intelligence.

Better description for AP and Durability: While I'm not looking for a tier change at this moment, including these in the explanations would make the profile look better.

It should be mentioned that when Asgore crossed Hotland, he did it before the place even had elevators.

Resistance to cold weather, Asgore is Santa Claus, meaning he has inevitably survived the cold of Snowdin due to being well known there, Snowdin is so cold that even Undyne herself finds it significantly cold, and it's snow is so cold it can withstand the middle of Hotland (How did you miss this, you even said Asgore is Santa Claus on Resistance to Heat Manipulation)

Those justifications seem fine, and consistent, imo, given my playthroughs.

That's Resistance to Heat Manipulation, though even lower-tier characters can do the same.

That seems fine. I remember something about him traveling to one of the monster classes as Santa Claus as well, and it's stated he (Santa) leaves presents in Snowdin.
 
Undyne:

Weapon Mastery: Seems fine, curious why this wasn't already added.

Limited Telekinesis: Also seems fine.

Minor Power Null: Really have to disagree with this one. There isn't much indication that Undyne is the one stopping Frisk from selling the letter there, and since it would entirely break that quest if you could permanently get rid of the letter, I'm inclined to consider this a game mechanic regardless.

Toriel:

Erasing energy constructs: Seems... fine? What ability would this qualify for, exactly?

Heat Manipulation: I mean, the context outright says it's just her fire magic, so it'd probably just be fire manipulation. Either way though, since she already has fire manip, this shouldn't be such a controversial addition (even if it's a bit unnecessary).

Upgraded Phone: Ehhhhh... Alphys upgraded her phone in a way that gave her the ability to text, but there's not much indication she did more than that. I'd at best give Toriel a "possibly" for any of the phone-related abilities.

Intelligence feats: Toriel's intelligence is currently just listed as "Presumably incredibly high", so it'd probably be good to get something more definitive in. Though I must admit, these feats do seem a bit exaggerated. A statement of "these books look worn and must have been read many times" seems like it'd hardly be enough for anything above Gifted, though preparing an entire curriculum overnight (while seemingly a bit of a hyperbolic joke in context) would probably qualify for Genius. I'll let other people give more input on this.

"I would also like to point out that Toriel doesn't hold back against just anyone, only Frisk because they were a child.": Agreed. Seems like a bit of a silly weakness to have listed.

Asgore:

I generally agree with all of the Asgore stuff, though I'd like more context on "Asgore is Santa Claus". Does this explicitly prove he himself directly went down to Snowdin?

Papyrus:

Provided that info is correct, and it was agreed upon already, I'm fine with it.

Alphys:

Lifting Strength: Extremely reluctant to use the save screen state as an actual canon feat, but I'll let more knowledgeable people on the verse decide.

Everything else here seems fine.

Frisk:

Scaling to the high tiers: Some of that doesn't seem reliable to me (like Frisk surviving Chara destroying the entire game world, which seems dubious contextually and moreso indicates that they are able to survive in a void). Otherwise though, I'm inclined to agree, especially since Frisk was genuinely able to tank serious attacks from Asriel.

Frisk's moves: Seems fine.

Durability Negation: I'm... a bit finicky on this one? I'd like input from someone more knowledgeable on it, but it does genuinely seem fine to apply. It would probably warrant something different that has durability neg as a byproduct, though.

Typo: Obviously, yes, fix that up.

Regenerating health by SAVEing: This seems to stretch a bit too far into game mechanics to be reliable, even for Undertale of all things.

Invulnerability: Eh. I can't say for sure if all stats are canon (since there are certain things like Health that make this dubious). Though this seems to have sufficient evidence to consider alongside many of the other in-game stats. It wouldn't be Invulnerability though; with how INV is depicted, it would be Intangibilty.

Immortality: Disagreed, unfortunately. Lasting for "over a thousand years" wouldn't necessarily qualify for Type 1, and it's implied that Asgore keeping the souls in their chambers is the only reason they've survived for so long. At best I think you could get Longevity out of this.

Empathic Manipulation: Seems perfectly fine to me.

Dream Manipulation: Dream Manip refers to the kinds of dreams you have when you sleep, rather than things you hope or wish for. The fact that he can turn his "dreams" into physical items might suggest something like... concept manip? Extremely uncertain about that, but I'll look into it.

Resistance to Absorption: Seems fine.

Resistance to Possession: This is taken extremely out of context. Mettaton only says that line if you went down the Genocide path up to Hotland, but then cancelled it there. Chara wouldn't have completely possessed Frisk by that point, so they wouldn't need resistance.

Limited Immunity to Power Mimicry: Did you mean resistance? Either way, this seems... meh. The context suggests that they haven't found any way to create DETERMINATION artificially, but this doesn't really prove that it's outright impossible.

Telepathy: I'm extremely doubtful that this would count as telepathy. It's just a textbox saying what Papyrus is thinking about.

Clairvoyance: The second link doesn't work, so I can't validate that. The first link doesn't seem to suggest anything like clairvoyance, so... I'm not sure what to say here.

Enhanced Senses: The first is a textbox shown by the game itself; not Frisk speaking. The second seems... well, maybe? Not sure what to make of it, since it's unclear if Frisk actually knows or if it's only being told to the player.

Power Nullification: Fine by me, but it's very limited.

Stamina: I mean, sure? What would this justify though?

Intelligence: These are all very inaccurate and taken out of context.

- Beating someone in a fight might qualify for being smarter than them, but hardly, and would need better supporting feats.

- That dialogue only appears if the player manages to dodge all of her attacks, which doesn't necessarily or canonically happen. Nor does it indicate any level of intelligence; that'd be a speed and reactions feat.

- Again, dodging Flowey's attacks is entirely dependant on how good the player is, and doesn't suggest a canonical version of Frisk.

- Knowing what a dodecahedron is isn't a particularly notable intelligence feat.

- The "conversation" line was a sarcastic joke about the fact that neither of them said anything and just wiggled around, not an indication that Frisk suddenly learned an entirely new language in a few seconds.

- This is the only one that I'd agree with to an extent.

Vulkin:

All seems fine except for durability negation; that would be Statistics Reduction.

Sans:

Telepathy: Disagreed, personally. "I know the real you is in there somewhere" doesn't really equate to literally reading their mind, and Sans was almost certainly only doing this to cause Frisk to drop their guard, as he tries to kill Frisk a second later.

Invulnerability/Power Nullification: This one is reliant on the Invulnerability being correct, which I mentioned before is closer to Intangibility. So... eh. Maybe.

Air Manipulation: Fine by me.

Possible Dimensional Travel: Seems... fine? Definitely not more than a possibly though; as it's still partially theoretical (even if it does make sense).

Muffet:

Statistics Reduction: Fine by me.

Being unable to break out of the webs: What does this entail?

Blocking signals: Again, what does this entail?

Everything else here is fine. Would "enjoying the pain" of the attacks against her count for Resistance to Pain Manipulation?

Annoying Dog:

Getting 10x stronger: This is absolutely 100% a joke by Toby Fox. We can't use this as a feat or WoG statement.

Power Bestowal: Was this explicitly the Annoying Dog that did this? This doesn't seem to be stated anywhere.

Acausality: They already have Type 5, which I imagine would serve the same purpose. This is fine otherwise.

Transmutation: Seems fine.

Sealing: I mean, it's described as a seal in game, so I see where this is coming from. It doesn't really have anything to it other than like, a thick lock though. I'm not sure that counts.

Duplication: This is literally a joke made in the trailer. No, this can't be used.

Plot Manipulation: Seems fine.

Life Manipulation: For creating the monsters and humans inside the game, yes. For creating the sun, no. The sun is described as having "life-giving rays", but contextually it's quite clear it's referring to just being reinvigorating.

Law Manipulation: Seems fine.

Age Manipulation: Seems... fine? I don't particularly understand the context, but it seems cut and dry.

Willpower Manipulation: Again, don't really understand the context here, but it seems fine.

Mind Manipulation: Seems fine.

Spatial Manipulation: Seems fine.

Conceptual Manipulation: I suppose so? If the Annoying Dog did create Chara, then this works.

Chara:

Fear Manipulation: Seems fine.


Holy HELL that took me over an hour. But I hope I've been of some help. :D
 
Thanks a lot to DarkGrath and ByAsura for helping out. I hope that you make a habit of always copying and saving before submitting long posts in this forum, as Fandom tends to eat ones that take over 20 minutes to write, and sometimes others as well.

Anyway, what they accepted and neither of them rejected can probably be applied.
 
I'll try and summarise every change I agree with applying into one post, so it's easier to cross-reference.
 
Undyne:

- Add Weapon Mastery

- Add limited Telekinesis

Toriel:

- Add the ability to erase energy constructs (whichever ability that would qualify for, perhaps Energy Manipulation?

- Change intelligence to "At least Gifted, likely/possibly Genius".

- Remove "unwillingness to kill" from weaknesses.

Asgore:

- Change the AP description to include more relevant information.

- Add Resistance to Extreme Cold (I think; still would like more context)

Papyrus:

- Adjust the intelligence section.

Alphys:

- Add limited Magnetism Manipulation.

- Add Healing via Instant Noodles.

- Include several intelligence feats in the intelligence section.

Frisk:

- Add Draw, Flex, and Clear Mind to their Notable Techniques section

- Fix the Jetpack description typo.

- Add limited Intangibility

- Add Longevity

- Add Empathic Manipulation

- Add... whatever the ability for forming something physical from an idea would be.

- Add Resistance to Absorption

- Add limited Power Nullification

Vulkin:

- Add Smoke Manipulation

- Add Magma Manipulation and Resistance to Magma Manipulation

- Add Statistics Reduction

Sans:

- Add limited Power Nullification (for Intangibility)

- Add Air Manipulation

- Add possibly Dimensional Travel

Muffet:

- Add Statistics Reduction

Annoying Dog:

- Add Transmutation

- Add Plot Manipulation

- Add Life Manipulation

- Add Law Manipulation

- Add Age Manipulation

- Add Willpower Manipulation

- Add Mind Manipulation

- Add Spatial Manipulation

- Add Conceptual Manipulation

Chara:

- Add Fear Manipulation
 
Thank you for helping out.
 
I totally agree with DarkGrath except in two things :

Empathic Manipulation is illogical. He did not work as Ralsie described it, whether in Undertale or in Deltarune, Frisk is just really good person in talking. If he really has Empathic Manipulation , why would he not use it again Undyne, Mettaton or Asgore?

Fear Manipulation: There are two problems here first Frisk is the one do that not Chara, secondly wasn't possible that Dogo simply has enhanced senses and he feels that a creature with great strength and evil is coming towards him so he has feared
 
Also Monster Kid said that Asgore visited them in school and taught them how to grow flowers. As we know that Monster Kid lives in two Snowdin, we can be certain that he is studying there as well, which makes Asgore have resistance to extreme cold anyway.
 
shouldn't she have fear manipulation regardless? just by walking up to monster kid, he was hesitant to fight. even the game says, "monster kid quivers anxiously"?

even I feared her fear manipulation after seeing her jumpscare
 
I would argue that Empathic Manipulation is still fair. They were able to affect the emotions of people like Froggit by talking to them, despite Froggit having no idea what they said. And they were able to make almost all monsters not want to hit them as hard with the Faded Ribbon, even including bloodlusted monsters. I'd argue it's still fair to give empathic manipulation under the given feats, it'd just be somewhat mild, which would explain why it isn't helpful against completely bloodlusted monsters.
 
Frisk also made asriel stop fighting them with memories of the past despite asriel wanting to kill them as fast as possible. Though it might be only for asriel and wouldn't work on any other enemey
 
I do agree that Frisk has Empathic Manipulation via Faded Ribbon, but I do not agree that he has it via talk.


Why do we assume that what Frisk did with froggit is Empathic Manipulation where it is possible that Froggit was flattered towards Frisk's words when he Compliment him and was scared from Frisk when he Threaten him because of Frisk's way of speaking only
 
I would prefer if at least one of the knowledgeable members for the verse took a look and validated this first, personally. There are quite a few knowledgeable members for Undertale listed on the page, so feel free to contact them there.
 
Commenting on just a few things

Durability Negation-The statement is "Saving over Asriel's file" not existence, and it likely just means overpowering his Save and Load abilities with your own. I don't think there's any durability negation here

Power mimicry resistance- No. Determination is a substance that the monsters cannot produce artificially, but that says nothing about what would happen if someone with a power copying ability interacted with it.

Empathic manipulation- Empathic should be limited to direct manipulation of someone's mind or emotion. Achieving a certain effect via talking should just be social influencing
 
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