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Raiden vs Naruto

The_Wright_Way

The_Wright_Way

VS Battles
Retired
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Teen Naruto.

Both at 7-C.

Speed Equalized.

Both start without any amps active.

RaidenMGR
I am lightning... the rain transformed.

vs.
Naruto uzumaki render nxb ninja voltage by maxiuchiha22-dcj1w4k
"There is no telling what kind of pain will come after me, but… if I stop believing because of that, if the hero should change, it'll turn into another story from the one my master left behind. Then it won't be Naruto! I can't write novels like my master did. That's why the sequel has to come from the life I live no matter how great the pain, I'll continue walking because that's who Naruto is!"
 
how good are Naruto's speed amps? Because Raiden's is like a 20x and all he needs is to hit Naruto once unless he has some regen\workaround that i don't know about
 
He has regen, but Low-Mid that requires for him to use Kurama's power (his tailed beast)

He can't regen from decapitation though
 
Honestly anything below high-mid is useless against Raiden, as it's in character for him to just cut his opponent into smithereens, he never settles for a single lethal slash
 
I want to say that I'm pretty sure Raiden's page is a bit outdated, since from what I could find his tier is supposed to be Low 7-C due to KE revisions and the low end for the other calc being the one accepted. But since Raiden has Regenerationn negation I'm sure this doesn't matter.


With all that said, I think I will have to vote Naruto. While Raiden is likely to use his speed amps, I don't think he'll start the battle off like that and in the intial change of blows his chances of getting one shotted are far too likely. Though, I can see an argument being made for Raiden taking the win if someone could convince me that he doesn't get hit in the intial exchange.
 
Duedate8898 said:
I want to say that I'm pretty sure Raiden's page is a bit outdated, since from what I could find his tier is supposed to be Low 7-C due to KE revisions and the low end for the other calc being the one accepted. But since Raiden has Regenerationn negation I'm sure this doesn't matter.


With all that said, I think I will have to vote Naruto. While Raiden is likely to use his speed amps, I don't think he'll start the battle off like that and in the intial change of blows his chances of getting one shotted are far too likely. Though, I can see an argument being made for Raiden taking the win if someone could convince me that he doesn't get hit in the intial exchange.
Click to expand...
Whoa, hold on there. He doesn't have Regen Neg. He just likes to slice people into mush and/or small pieces.
 
All I see is that he scales to the low End, since that was accepted,
 
Then he shouldnt be 7-C, since the Low-end is Low 7-C. The first calc was said to be invalid due to the KE revisions, and wasnt evaluated.
 
He scales to Armstrong's EXCELSUS punch that is 7-C

You can have conversation with Twellas about that if you want.
 
It was said that Low end is the safest to use. As far as I know, the calc ignored that Armstrong left a massive crater in ground and turned the area into mini volcano.
 
Here am I

Simply put, going for the low end is straight up non-sensical given the verse at hand, I could even argue that even the high end is a lowball, the calc also ignores a huge crater left by the explosion and ONLY considers the mass of Excelsus' body. And besides, it's not me who put the 7-C on Armstrong's profile, all i did was prove that Raiden scales above him without the use of Ripper Mode
 
The low, mid and high ends in that calc consist in the different strength values the EXCELSUS' material can have according to our technology, which is NOTHING compared to MGR's. Going for the low-end is saying that the EXCELSUS, a futuristic, top notch (its name literally means "of incredible quality" in latin) is made with material that is sub-par compared to what we use today, which doesn't make any sense. the mid end would say that the EXCELSUS uses materials whose strength is only average to us, which is also ridiculous because MGR is light years above us in technology. The high end would say that it's made with top-quality material FOR TODAY, which would actually be ok, but I could argue that the CNT used in the EXCELSUS would be of even higher quality given the gap between our tech and the EXCELSUS'
 
I was going to point this out in the feat thread, in order to get a formal acceptance of the mid (or even high) end being used, but I'm kinda busy
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Duedate8898 said:
I want to say that I'm pretty sure Raiden's page is a bit outdated, since from what I could find his tier is supposed to be Low 7-C due to KE revisions and the low end for the other calc being the one accepted. But since Raiden has Regenerationn negation I'm sure this doesn't matter.


With all that said, I think I will have to vote Naruto. While Raiden is likely to use his speed amps, I don't think he'll start the battle off like that and in the intial change of blows his chances of getting one shotted are far too likely. Though, I can see an argument being made for Raiden taking the win if someone could convince me that he doesn't get hit in the intial exchange.
Click to expand...
Whoa, hold on there. He doesn't have Regen Neg. He just likes to slice people into mush and/or small pieces.
Click to expand...
It's entirely in character for EOG Raiden to just go Ripper Mode and in Ripper Mode he's a psychotic, bloodlusted killing machine who holds nothing back, so yeah, he definitely starts off with both of his amps
 
I am 99% sure that the low end was used ONLY because it's low 7-C like the EXCELSUS' feat, so that there would be no tier-jump. This ignores a plethora of factors like: 1 the EXCELSUS performed that feat by literally just walking 2 Raiden completely fodderized the EXCELSUS 3 a casual Armstrong, BARELY even fighting Raiden, was already giving him FAR more trouble than the EXCELSUS ever did throughout the entire fight.

There is simply no logical reason to go for the low-end, because it isn't even the safest option, given all that stuff I mentioned earlier about the material's quality
 
@Twellas

Why would Raiden just start off the battle in Ripper Mode though? He has no reason to go into the state at the very start of a fight. And to just assume the middle end for the calc doesn't make sense either. If there really is so much wrong with the calc, then it should be recacled instead of just using a higher value from it. And while it is possible for Carbon Nanotubes to be stronger than they were in the past, we don't actually know if it is stronger or to what degree.
 
Because the entire point of Raiden's development throughout THE ENTIRETY of the game consists of him accepting his ripper persona and coming to terms with it, and in the last cutscene of the game it's implied that he's going to go Ripper Mode on a bunch of literal fodders he can oneshot in base, he definitely starts off with the ripper mode.

Except it does, and i explained why in the previous comments, if anything what doesn't make any sense is to go with the low-end and the mid-end is at the very least a lowball. The calc is pretty much fine as it is, the crater would make it skyrocket in tier to a point where it's inconsistent tbh.

Yeah, which is why I'm sipmply talking about using OUR highest-strength CNT for the calc, not some made up stronger CNT. It's entirely logical and reasonable to think that the EXCELSUS would use AT LEAST top tier CNT for our standards, since its purpose is to substitute nukes as war deterrance and it's from a futuristic verse.
 
Twellas said:
This is pretty evidently not a sign of him going RM for a variety of reasons, the first being that the glow itself lasts for less than a second, unlike what happens when he goes RM, and he also lacks the red aura. The second is that the exact same effect of "red eye flare" can be seen in the Mistral bossfight, where her eyes glow red the exact same way for a second. From this alone it's pretty evident how that red eye is nothing more than a sign of determination and murderous intent shared by different characters in the game
Click to expand...
A quote directly from you in the thread you made for the upgrade contradicting what you just said

And just because technology improves, that doesn't mean it's more durable. Improvements aren't just singluar like that, especially with technology. For all we know, the reason CNT is so widely used is because of its chemical stability or how well it does under heat in comparison to things like steel and that was where the primary focus was. And you don't know how the crater would effect the calc until its calced. And that's only if that crater isn't the same one from earlier in the fight with Metal Gear.

While Metal Gear's are meant to be deterrent like Nukes, that doesn't automatically mean they're material has to be super durable either. That just means they have to be good at being weapons of mass destruction. Plus, compromises tend to be made for things like weapons and vehicles all the time, so its also logical to assume that they might've went with something below the best if they needed to put stock into those big ass blades it uses, or troops it produces, or its laser beam.
 
"A quote directly from you in the thread you made for the upgrade contradicting what you just said"

Except it ABSOLUTELY doesn't and you just took it and pasted here out of context, that comment of mine was simply to show that in the ARMSTRONG what was COMMONLY USED TO SHOW THAT RAIDEN WAS RM wasn't actually that, but of course that is only part of why he didn't go RM, i went in-depth about them in the very crt. Raiden's eye ALWAYS glows red when he goes ripper mode but it doesn't ONLY glow when he goes rm. You literally just took a comment of mine that has nothing to do with anything in this post and pasted here without considering the fact that I also said "The reason for that is in the "glowing eye" scene, where Raiden comes to terms with his violent side and embraces it" in the same thread.

"And just because technology improves, that doesn't mean it's more durable"

Except it absolutely does, especially in the case of a meterial such as CNT whose WHOLE POINT is being mechanically strong

"For all we know, the reason CNT is so widely used is because of its chemical stability or how well it does under heat in comparison to things like steel and that was where the primary focus was"

Straight up false, we know EXACTLY why CNT is used in MGR, we are told by Dok himself, and i quote: "CNTs have assorted properties, each with the potential to drive vast leaps in industrial technology. Consider, for example, that their conducting properties and resistance to strong currents far outclass copper. They have great mechanical strength and can be shaped into incredibly thin form factors. All of which can directly contribute to improving integrated circuits. Furthermore, the atomic links in sp2 carbon is the strongest of all types of atoms. Its tensile strength is greater than even diamond...". CNT is used mainly because it's strong and flexible.

"While Metal Gear's are meant to be deterrent like Nukes, that doesn't automatically mean they're material has to be super durable either"

Actually yes, it goes without saying that a weapon which is supposed to prevent war from ever happening due to just how advanced and lethal it is should also be as durable as technology allows it to be, just like nukes grew EXPONENTIALLY in power due to their importance as a deterrent and scientific progress.

"Plus, compromises tend to be made for things like weapons and vehicles all the time, so its also logical to assume that they might've went with something below the best"

You accuse me of making assumptions and then one of your arguments is literally just "yeah they probably just didn't make it as strong as they could, just 'cause". Nothing in the game even comes close to suggesting something like this happened, it's a full blown assumption.
 
I brought up your own quote specifically because you say that just because the eye glows, that doesn't mean that he's entering Ripper Mode.In this scene, all we do is see his eye glow, so why can't that just be him showing his killer intent?

While the quote you provided does state the reasons for using CMTs, my own point was that we don't know where improvements might've been made in CMTs themselves, in fact, that exact conversation points to the use of CMTs as being primarily because it is now possible to reliable produce them in mass. So for all we know, increasing their shear strength hasn't come about with the material yet. And in that same conversation the main point isn't that they're mainly used because their strong and flexible but because of all the things they can do overall, which being strong and flexible is a part of.

I have to disagree, especially with the example you used. Nukes got higher payloads, but that doesn't mean the material that encases them was made to deal with a more powerful explosion.

And my last argument isn't saying that probably didn't use the densest CMT just cause, my argument is that its just as plausible that CMT used in the Metal Gear isn't straight up the most durable as it is that it might be the most durable possible.
 
Holy shit did the wiki just eat my comment? uuuhhhh time to type again

"In this scene, all we do is see his eye glow, so why can't that just be him showing his killer intent?"

Because the entirety of Raiden's development throughout the game points at that moment as the first one in which he fights for himself and shows his true nature, which, as Raiden himself states before the Monsoon fight, is his Ripper Mode.

"While the quote you provided does state the reasons for using CMTs, my own point was that we don't know where improvements might've been made in CMTs themselves"

It's not at all a stretch to say that a material whose main characteristic is being strong would be developed to become stronger.

"And in that same conversation the main point isn't that they're mainly used because their strong and flexible but because of all the things they can do overall, which being strong and flexible is a part of"

Dok goes out of his way to spend 3 whole lines talking about its strength, more than any other characteristic mentioned, this clearly shows how the CNT's durability is its main selling point, because if it wasn't Doktor wouldn't have mentioned it more than once.

"I have to disagree, especially with the example you used. Nukes got higher payloads, but that doesn't mean the material that encases them was made to deal with a more powerful explosion."

The means through which nukes were upgraded is irrelevant, the fact still stands that a Tsar Bomba is far more powerful than a Fat Man,

"And my last argument isn't saying that probably didn't use the densest CMT just cause, my argument is that its just as plausible that CMT used in the Metal Gear isn't straight up the most durable as it is that it might be the most durable possible."

The problem is that it's not just as plausible, because why would they not go for the best material available when creating a weapon that is supposed to revolutionize how war is fought as a whole? It just doesn't make sense
 
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