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Final Fantasy VII: Needless lore dumping and explanations on profiles

Bobsican

Bobsican

He/Him
21,628
6,273
Okay, it has been bugging me for a while.

Having lore and other stuff explained is nice and all, but when you get to copy and paste a lot of stuff that could just be in a blog post, it isn't, especially if a bunch of profiles share the exact same thing.

My idea is to just move those things to a blog post, just that, that'll leave the profiles more organized, consistent and better for reference overall, while also leaving a link to such at the bottom as a "note", like how Barney the Dinosaur holds it, for example.

To be exact (Regarding to this entire group, respectively):

The "List of Materia Obtained in the Story" grants absolutely nothing in terms of notable techniques, this sort of information (places to find X in-game) are not something related to this wiki and are something you would search for in Gamepedia or the Final Fantasy Wiki, so it should only list instead which stuff isn't into the profile out of canon dubiousness, which likely should go into the before-mentioned blog post as this is also shared among most of the profiles above.

More notably, the entire "The Lifestream" section is to be entirely moved to the before-mentioned blog post, as it's nothing more than lore dumping to support stuff on the profiles, and the "Important Notes" section should be moved as a simple note on the verse page.
 
Yeah I also agree, a Blog Post would summarize everything important and keep their profiles more organized

Just like Devil May Cry, when a verse have something to explain about its canon, it should be on the verse page with a explanation + a "accepted" timeline, it makes everything easier, because in a eventual Vs Thread, if someone doesn't agree or don't know the accepted canon, just link to the verse page, if he doesn't agree with, a CRT will be needed, avoiding trouble on Vs Threads
 
Well tbh the verse page should've been nuked awhile ago along with the other game specific verse pages. But I agree that it can be in a Blog Post instead of directly on the profiles.
 
I also agree with the verse page nuking, TBH, I was planning a CRT on that, but that's for another CRT, I guess.
 
We really only need one verse page; not one for every single game.
 
Well, if it happens, the supporters/opponent/neutral sections should also be moved to the main verse page, and all of them likely redirected to it so forum threads aren't lost in the process.
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
Agnaa is seemingly making the changes without waiting for Tarta to reply?
Click to expand...
The only change I made was fixing a spelling mistake.
 
Ah sorry dude, wasn't meant to be acusatory (I should have checked what you changed) I just noticed the lifestream section wasn't on his profile anymore.
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
Ah sorry dude, wasn't meant to be acusatory (I should have checked what you changed) I just noticed the lifestream section wasn't on his profile anymore.
Click to expand...
But it's still there (._.)
 
The "List of Materia Obtained in the Story" grants absolutely nothing in terms of notable techniques, this sort of information (places to find X in-game) are not something related to this wiki and are something you would search for in Gamepedia or the Final Fantasy Wiki, so it should only list instead which stuff isn't into the profile out of canon dubiousness, which likely should go into the before-mentioned blog post as this is also shared among most of the profiles above.
I haven't participated in any FF7 threads since I'm not really interested in the game for vs debating, but as far as I can tell, this is essentially a list of the materia the characters would canonically come across. This seems actually useful for the profiles, like you could separate battles between "Cloud with canon materia" and "Cloud with any materia", but I'm not sure if this is done in practice.

It's certainly much more than just something that would be put on Gamepedia to help you track down all the materia locations, especially considering it's missing a fair amount of materia and includes some enemy skills semi-arbitrarily. This seems like a purposeful inclusion by the creators of the page.

But you may have a point that including this same list on 10 profiles might be a bit much. I'm not sure if it should be put onto a blog or not. So I'm neutral, but I hope my points stop people from being so overzealous on this point.

More notably, the entire "The Lifestream" section is to be entirely moved to the before-mentioned blog post, as it's nothing more than lore dumping to support stuff on the profiles, and the "Important Notes" section should be moved as a simple note on the verse page.
Strongly agree.

We really only need one verse page; not one for every single game.
I think separating these verse pages can be useful, since it seems like there's very little relevant crossover/scaling between these games. While they do take place in the same multiverse I think they're in different universes/planets which, combined with the sparse relevant crossovers/scaling, might make them worthy of being separated this way.
 
I think we could make the list of materia a bit less bloated if it was just a description of the abilities granted and not where it's found in game, it seems entirely redundant to list where the materia are found to me.
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
I think we could make the list of materia a bit less bloated if it was just a description of the abilities granted and not where it's found in game, it seems entirely redundant to list where the materia are found to me.
Click to expand...
Probably, but that does also kinda lend itself to telling visitors exactly why those things are included if there's any ambiguity about them. Like the descriptions and note for the expected skills to learn for the Enemy Skill materia, or the Bahamut SIN materia which only appears in Advent Children.

I'm not sure what the right balance is.
 
Yeah, indicating it a spell is only available in one game or another is fine but like 'Found before x boss fight' and 'Found on x set piece' seems redundant when debating vs matches. It also makes it seem like we just copy pasted it from another wiki in a way (even if its not)
 
Maybe a partial rewrite is in order? Cutting the location descriptions for all the obvious materia, leaving in the short spell descriptions for all materia, and leaving in the location descriptions for more obscure materia choices?
 
Heya, sorry for being late.

I can see the problem you guys mention, and to be honest I kind of agree that the profiles have way too much information. To be fair, this was before I truly became familiar with the use of blogs and linking to them to expand on the universe of the characters the profiles belong to, but that doesn't take away the current problem. >_>

The "List of Materia obtained in the Story" was added mostly because a very common problem, off-site at least, is many leaving the VII cast without Materia or abilities altogether with the argument that "there is no canon information about what Materia they have" or "all Materia is optional, therefore not canon", so I made that section to provide a possible answer to that.

Though all of this, as Bob says, could be fixed with notes and a blogs going in detail.

In the meantime I can create two blogs for the Materia and one for the Lifestream and add notes to link to them from the articles to clean up things a bit. Though, after playing Crisis Core, Before Crisis and having some talks with Ever and DDM there will be some revisions for everybody in the VII verse so several new things and blogs will be needed (and a frigload of new profiles).

This is an example of the newer versions, but I can see what the problem is, it's still too cluttered. So I guess, remove the Lifestream, Materia Obtained and Maiden Sections and simply mention them in the notes section linking them to a proper blog.

I had forgotten the individual verse pages were going to be removed. I think that's for the best And saves me working on the VII page as well X(
 
BTW, thanks for letting me know of issues in the profiles. One can try their best, but it's easy to gloss over mistakes and think your own work is currently flawless =P
 
Agnaa said:
We really only need one verse page; not one for every single game.
I think separating these verse pages can be useful, since it seems like there's very little relevant crossover/scaling between these games. While they do take place in the same multiverse I think they're in different universes/planets which, combined with the sparse relevant crossovers/scaling, might make them worthy of being separated this way.
Click to expand...
Well, it can really just be its own section in the main verse page, otherwise we may as well do a ton of verse pages for each set of Fire Emblem games as most of them have their own universe.

It's also quite barebones and a pain to navigate across when everything can just be in a single page.
 
Bobsican said:
Well, it can really just be its own section in the main verse page, otherwise we may as well do a ton of verse pages for each set of Fire Emblem games as most of them have their own universe.

It's also quite barebones and a pain to navigate across when everything can just be in a single page.
Click to expand...
I know nothing about Fire Emblem and how suited it would be to having multiple verse pages. I can give you an example of my own that I'll talk you through over Discord.

Also, the Final Fantasy VII verse page links to the main Final Fantasy verse page, which itself links to all the other pages. None of this is a pain to navigate.

However, after having characters like Gilgamesh (Final Fantasy) explained to me, it may be fine to combine all of Final Fantasy into one verse page.
 
Ugh, this is taking much longer than expected, when going through the Ultimanias, Crisis Core and Before Crisis I found some important info regarding the setting that I really will need to add to the blog. Currently working on a pretty large update for the verse, not so much revisions for characters already done, but additions of missing characters and cleaning up a lot of info in general, so it's more likely I'll add the whole blog in there, where it will also explain other obtuse details of the universe.

I'll remove the Lifestream and Materia sections for the time being in the profiles and link to them properly with the revision.

Apologies for all the trouble.

EDIT: Removed the Lifestream and Materia sections. Will be added and linked to in the future. Certainly looks a lot less clogged >_>
 
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