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Naruto speed and light, yet again.

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Rocker1189

Rocker1189

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We love to hate it.

Well my participation in Naruto CRTs have been minimal recently apart from any of the few of my making. So here I am again tackling the speeds for top tier Naruto characters yet again.

This is specifically for Naruto dodging beams of light fired by Delta, our resident Naruto/Boruto terminator made by the Kara.

Originally calced here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ZephyrosOmega/Naruto:_Bringing_Naruto_back_up_to_Rela

But due to some pixel scaling issues and some unreasonable assumptions of height I recalced it here and also took into account when Naruto actually reacted giving him faster speeds:https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Rocker1189/Naruto_dodges_a_beam_of_light

So the main issue is whether Delta beams are light speed, most verses actually dont even have lightspeed statements for their lasers to be considered speed of light but regardless I would provide everything I believe points to this.

The official only calls them beams but we can tell from the raws that in actuallity the translation should be beams of light as every other translation saw that and you can tell from the raws:

https://i.imgur.com/JVFerXF.png

ÕàëþÀÜ = beam of light

As we know Delta is actually a robot made by Kara:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574962376219164684/659370567165804544/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574962376219164684/659370502439174194/unknown.png

Meaning everything she does is technologically based.

Why does this matter? We are told by Kawaki and co in the latest chapter that the tech Kara uses use actual physical matter, like Boro who produces actual viruses from his ninja tech, not energy made viruses. In other words not chakra made making them real:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574962376219164684/659372910120665088/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574962376219164684/659373071198584843/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574962376219164684/659373395988709379/unknown.png

This means that the beam produced by Delta's eyes is actual light photons, this is further backed by a recent Naruto novel where photon lasers are used:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574962376219164684/659373980570091532/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574962376219164684/659374101420310538/unknown.png

Delta's laser also do not have any contradictions to real light, moving in a staight lines and when shown from Naruto's perspective we see that th elaser is not actually visible:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574962376219164684/659376694993485825/unknown.png

Oh and Merry Christmas!

Edit:

Something I was looking for earlier and could not find which confirms her being made up of ninja tools:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574962376219164684/659432881709383690/unknown.png
 
Merry Christmas indeed...Ahh damn

Ok, I am fine with considering it a real laser with what you've shown, but this Christmas gift isn't going to be easy for Santa to deliver.
 
This looks good to me, and the laser guns being confirmed light speed brings more hope for various beam attacks to have more consistencies on that. But do we have feats on anyone dodging those photon guns? Those would be especially good.
 
I remember a dude using these photon guns to shoot Sasuke, but it was a Genjutsu. Naruto dodged Delta's beams like, 5 times in the same fight.

I also agree with the OP
 
This seems fine to me as well.
 
I would much prefer to wait for more official confirmation such as a lightspeed statement or supporting feats.

Other technology in the Naruto verse creating real lasers doesn't necessarily mean Delta's are lightspeed.

A few contradictions from the manga that I can see is that the beams disperse like a physical object when hit by Naruto's Rasengan (you can see them on the edge of the Rasengan here) and the beams explode when they hit the ground which obviously real lasers wouldn't do, and in this scene she appears to fire them as a couple of energy blasts and not an actual beam of light.

Right now the beams only seem to fit two out of five qualifiers at best, so I would prefer that this be delayed until further confirmation can be found.
 
I'am neutral in this topic but one of the point listed in the OP seem wrong to me, Delta's laser do have contradictions to real light, this scene show that the beam of light isn't truly a beam and don't look like light.

Let's wait what people think about it.
 
I'm really neutral and I don't mind waiting for more confirmation.

However ... The beam scatters like any energy when it touches another energy, and that has no criterion for beams. It's not as if the author would always follow physics, even how a laser is dispersed.
And I'm sure Kizaru's lasers explode (not only that, but they also seem to be projectiles), but they've been accepted as SoL.

And indeed, Causality seems to have a point. However, this beam has been shown several times and this panel is the only one in which it does not appear to be a beam of light but more like a projectile.
 
That is just a weird angle, every other showing of it has been a straight line coming from her eyes. So that is not a contradiction just a weird angle, you cant even see her face there.

As for qualifiers I thing everything is more than enough, the other tech in Naruto creating lasers are also ninja tech like has and as stated by team 7. My point of comparison is that they are real lasers as they are produced by ninja tech whihc produces real matter.

And of cause they can be dispersed, the rasengan is a mass of chakra that literally destriys anythign in ites way, photons being spread around like that is nothing new.

As for explosions that always happens with light depictions in fiction.

Anyway my main point is what I have stated above about ninja tech in general as backed up by the manga.

As for supporting feats we have had more than enough of them from Naruto. And as fo rlight speed very many lasers are accepted without a light speed statement.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
This looks good to me, and the laser guns being confirmed light speed brings more hope for various beam attacks to have more consistencies on that. But do we have feats on anyone dodging those photon guns? Those would be especially good.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately not, I believe that I would need the entire novel to be translated and it is possible that sasuke reacted after he attempted to fire the laser, whcih could be a good reaction feat but we dont have enough context unfortunately, we do have the varius light speed feats from Naruto though.
 
I would say we don't have many lightspeed feats in Naruto, and their presence isn't really a supporting factor for this particular feat.

The Laser Dodging feats page states that the feats need to match up with at least a few of the qualifiers and as I mentioned above this appears to only fit two for now, with a couple of contradicting depictions in the manga.

Waiting for better confirmation (which is entirely possible seeing as Delta isn't dead, and there will likely be a databook for the manga) would be better.
 
Damage3245 said:
I would say we don't have many lightspeed feats in Naruto, and their presence isn't really a supporting factor for this particular feat.
The Laser Dodging feats page states that the feats need to match up with at least a few of the qualifiers and as I mentioned above this appears to only fit two for now, with a couple of contradicting depictions in the manga.

Waiting for better confirmation (which is entirely possible seeing as Delta isn't dead, and there will likely be a databook for the manga) would be better.
Click to expand...
That is entirely an opinion and one that I see as wrong.

Only 1 is possibly contradicting and that is nothing unexpected of a rasengan to basically any attack.

I dont think there is a point in waiting with all the evidence we have, also a lot of lasers are accepted with less.
 
Damage3245 said:
I would say we don't have many lightspeed feats in Naruto, and their presence isn't really a supporting factor for this particular
Click to expand...
We actually do. We have Hakus mirrors, Itachi has a FTL feat, Lariat Statement, Madaras Light Fang, and Naruto dodging at least 4 of these lasers which yield Rel+ to FTL results.
 
@Wrath of Itachi And we also have mifune's attack. Light fang is explicitly light speed as well and it is implied that the wswing was also lightspeed.

@BlackJan dont bring up DaL.
 
Wrath Of Itachi said:
We actually do. We have Hakus mirrors, Itachi has a FTL feat, Lariat Statement, Madaras Light Fang, and Naruto dodging at least 4 of these lasers which yield Rel+ to FTL results.
Click to expand...
Itachi has no FTL feat in the manga.

The Lariat Statement has been rejected.

Madara's Light Fang is accepted, but Naruto dodging it has been rejected so many times it's laughable.

The Naruto feat is from Boruto and what we're discussing, so that's obviously not from the Naruto manga which is what we were talking about.
 
Itachi has the feat from his novel, which is canon to the series. The Lariat statement was only rejected due to lack of supporting feats, and edo madara also has a rel feat from the war arc. So there are plenty of supporting feats for this.
 
Damage3245 said:
The Lariat Statement has been rejected.

Madara's Light Fang is accepted, but Naruto dodging it has been rejected so many times it's laughable.

The Naruto feat is from Boruto and what we're discussing, so that's obviously not from the Naruto manga which is what we were talking about.
Click to expand...
Rejection does not make the feat none existent, it just means that they now have more evidence.

The fact it has been rehjected as Naruto dodging it multiple times is indeed laughable.
 
@Damage

Don't cut pieces of the story to fit your narrative, Damage.

Lariat was not rejected, you just despaired after I refuted your analysis (I refuted your conclusion, although I agreed with your points, though!) And passed your revisions quickly, which as I said, were fallacious.

The last thread of Naruto dodge LF, was simply left in oblivion. I participated in the last thread about it and nothing was rejected.
 
@MostPowerfull; seeing as it was removed from the profiles you are wrong. It was rejected. Sorry if you're unhappy about that.
 
Can you guys ******* stop to talk about this feats and focus on the main thing the OP is saying?
 
@Damage

Like I said, you just sped up the revisions after I started to change the thinking of several staffs who had agreed with your fallacious arguments.

You remove them from the profile, do not change that their points were wrong. They just show that most of the Staff didn't even read Naruto to pay attention.
 
Damage3245 said:
@MostPowerfull; seeing as it was removed from the profiles you are wrong. It was rejected. Sorry if you're unhappy about that.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure it was never added to the profiles in the first place.
 
Rocker1189 said:
We have accepted stuff with less, this has multiple things pointing to it being LS.
Click to expand...
Doesn't that just mean we might have standards that are too low?

As far as I can see from the manga there is very little pointing to Delta's attacks being lightspeed.

The Laser Dodging feats page states that the beams in question need to pass a few qualifiers with as few contradictions as possible.

As I stated earlier these beams currenlty fit two qualifiers at best and have some contradictions.

Accepting it based on just that would be a very low basis of acceptance criteria, especially when there is no mention of lightspeed.

Either it should be rejected for now until more evidence comes up, or the Laser Dodging page needs rewritten to account for this.
 
Yeah can people actually refute my points please, bringing up other feats and random stuff is not tackling what I brough up and I would see that as derailing.
 
Damage3245 said:
Doesn't that just mean we might have standards that are too low?

As far as I can see from the manga there is very little pointing to Delta's attacks being lightspeed.

The Laser Dodging feats page states that the beams in question need to pass a few qualifiers with as few contradictions as possible.

As I stated earlier these beams currenlty fit two qualifiers at best and have some contradictions.

Accepting it based on just that would be a very low basis of acceptance criteria, especially when there is no mention of lightspeed.

Either it should be rejected for now until more evidence comes up, or the Laser Dodging page needs rewritten to account for this.
Click to expand...
Maybe it is, but what we have for Delta is certainly not low.

Well again that is you ropinion in mine a lot does.

two qualifiers is enough not counting the fact that it has been said that ninja tech produces actual matter, actual viruses meaning actual photons we also have evidence in the photon gun. There is only 1 actual "contradiction" which is never seen as a contradiction for most fictional lasers because most fcitional lasers blow shit up.

I disagree not everything needs a very specific statement that is clearly alluded to based onw what we see.

The laser dodging does not have to rewritten it is never said that you have to mean all the criteria or a specific amount, it simply gives you what you should dlook out for.
 
Sorry everyone for before, it is a matter not related to that.

Well, by the way ...

Laser Support

  • The beam of light is made by technology, which is said to be made of photons.
  • The beam follows in a straight line.
  • Technology is said to produce real matter from existing materials.
Problems

  • The laser is not shown to disperse like a real laser.
 
> There is only 1 actual "contradiction" which is never seen as a contradiction for most fictional lasers because most fcitional lasers blow shit up.

There are three contradictions which have been brought up including that one, and that one should count for all verses even if it is common.

As for the photon gun, in my opinion it would be a more credible supporting evidence if it ever appeared or was alluded to in the manga itself. Of course that's just my opinion on it, I'm sure other people have no problem with using novels but that doesn't strongly support Delta's beams IMO.
 
Damage3245 said:
> There is only 1 actual "contradiction" which is never seen as a contradiction for most fictional lasers because most fcitional lasers blow shit up.
There are three contradictions which have been brought up including that one, and that one should count for all verses even if it is common.

As for the photon gun, in my opinion it would be a more credible supporting evidence if it ever appeared or was alluded to in the manga itself. Of course that's just my opinion on it, I'm sure other people have no problem with using novels but that doesn't strongly support Delta's beams IMO.
Click to expand...
There are only 2, 1 the explosion and the dispersion. The laser not being a line in one see where we only see a couple of characters with no background whatsoever is an artistic choice, not a contradiction in fact it is a contradiction of every other potrayal of the laser.

The novels are canon, and supported by the manga. They even have a timeline with the novels and manga in it.
 
Of course a lightspeed statement is good, but I do think we have enough support for it being real light as it is.

And we might never get a confirmation.
 
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