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0.5 Second Unconsciousness

BakiHanma18

BakiHanma18

6,021
253
I've been informed recently of two things that I'd like clarification on: processing delay is not 0.5, but 0.1 for normal people, much less Hypersonic fighters, and this is not covered under Verse Equalization. Thoughts?
 
I can accept the fact that it cant work on people faster than Baki, Yujiro and others from the verse

But it should work if they have the same speed or lower than Baki/Yujiro, especially under matches with Speed Equalized
 
Oblivion Of The Endless said:
I can accept the fact that it cant work on people faster than Baki, Yujiro and others from the verse

But it should work if they have the same speed or lower than Baki/Yujiro, especially under matches with Speed Equalized
Click to expand...
I plan to pull the opposition in to argue the point
 
I've made my points on this before. But my main point is that with verse equalization being a thing that allows matches from some of our favourite verses like Bleach, Naruto, etc to be possible without being stomps, Baki shouldn't be a verse that is for some reason exempt from verse equalization.

Speed literally means nothing against 0.5 as well. If you can stop Baki before he activates the move, then it can be stopped. But even if you are 1000x faster, and you let Baki/Yujiro start the 0.5, you literally become unable to react or move for those 0.5 seconds. Speed means little to nothing once the move has been activated. The big example of this is of course how Base Baki used 0.5 on Yujiro despite the latter being able to blitz Baki multiple times casually.
 
Amlad22 said:
I've made my points on this before. But my main point is that with verse equalization being a thing that allows matches from some of our favourite verses like Bleach, Naruto, etc to be possible without being stomps, Baki shouldn't be a verse that is for some reason exempt from verse equalization.

Speed literally means nothing against 0.5 as well. If you can stop Baki before he activates the move, then it can be stopped. But even if you are 1000x faster, and you let Baki/Yujiro start the 0.5, you literally become unable to react or move for those 0.5 seconds. Speed means little to nothing once the move has been activated. The big example of this is of course how Base Baki used 0.5 on Yujiro despite the latter being able to blitz Baki multiple times casually.
Click to expand...
Thanks for dropping your thoughts here, this argument was one called into question, so now you can defend your argument here if it's called into question
 
The first thing that brings that entire discussion into question, I'd like to point out, is that Naruto could supposedly go unaffected because of his reaction speed, yet speed was equalized

Until the point about Naruto's ap and Baki's ap is addressed, it's looking like a stomp in Naruto's favor. I don't think it's exactly "fair" as is

This will still be up, no worries
 
Verse equalization makes lots of verses more "unfair" if that's what you wanna use. It's part of vs matches in general. Some verses get nerfed by it and some get buffed by it. Off the top of my head, I can think of dragon ball super having those with God Ki being undetectable. Which is a pretty big aspect in a fight, not being able to sense someone at all. Verse equalization is what allows this "unfair" advantage to occur as if we don't equalize it, the argument could then be made that since, let's say Ichigo from Bleach, uses reiatsu and not ki, he'd be able to sense those with God ki just fine. Anyway my point is that Baki isn't the only verse gaining an "unfair" advantage due to verse equalization. Lots of verses get them and lots of verses don't.
 
@Baki

Maybe I should focus responding here.

Anyway in that case, usually you don't think much of those subconscious reaction times to be equalized.

And in my opinion... If that's also equalized, well you end up in a situation where Baki or Yujiro Spams that, and the opponent is unable to react at all usually and it becomes a sort of one sided not really speed equalized scenario. Yes call it unfair, but it's also a stomp at that point if so. But on the first place that is if it's allowed to be equalized since it's a weakness in the first place. At best you can end up with it not being used.

Also another issue with this is... If that's the reflex of how they act well... Let's ignore Speed equalization for a bit-

(Reaction Tiers for Reaction Timeframes Only Normal Human perception: 0.2-0.129 seconds

Athletic Human perception: 0.129-0.102 seconds

Peak Human perception: 0.102-0.08 seconds

Superhuman perception: 0.08-0.0291 seconds)

It becomes impossible to add on, because even Baki's own speed feats contradict this, when you probably have some minor mooks moving faster than the above, and thus disregards the 0.5 second rule)

@Amlad

Fair on that. I don't tackle the big HST usually on matches so I barely see the Verse Equalization. The one I see usually has things like allowing Servants from Fate to be harmed from non-fantasy based Settings, but then again even that's fixed.

Also I'm not making good connections between those but then again it does technically have the effect of-

Making it fair for one side, and making it unfair for the other, since we're shifting advantages.


I went on too long lol. I'll shorten my responses next time
 
It only allows them to act in the timeframe it takes for someone to react, and it eventually can't be used after a certain amount of times because a fighter would adjust to being tricked constantly. It isn't op unless they would one shot in the first use, which would mean that the match probably didn't need to exist anyway.
 
Anttron224 said:
It only allows them to act in the timeframe it takes for someone to react, and it eventually can't be used after a certain amount of times because a fighter would adjust to being tricked constantly. It isn't op unless they would one shot in the first use, which would mean that the match probably didn't need to exist anyway.
Click to expand...
Didn't both Baki and Yujiro spam it with each other?
 
I don't think it's possible to adjust with the nature of its haxx though. You can't forcefully change how your body reacts.

At this point though I think 0.5 should just be labelled on whether it's being equalized in reactions with the enemy too or not. That could be a fair way to include it. But any other non equalized match, imo it would be an issue.
 
Being completely transparent here, I think what we're trying to do in order to describe 0.5 is word it in such a way that it's unresistable unless under very specific nigh-unfindable circumstances.
 
Another thing I'd like to discuss as sort of food for thought is if the name and description are just flat-out wrong. If normal people react to stuff in about 0.2 seconds, and Yujiro, Baki, and Oliva are all MHS, the 0.5 seconds part is impossible, right?
 
And as far as resistances, things like Bio manip, Instinctive Reaction (to a degree), and some other things should help. Also, the brain of the opponent has to function like a normal brain. If it's reaction processing time is altered or they have no brain, or hell, if they're exorbitantly faster (bigger than the gap between Baki and Yujiro), all of those things should check 0.5
 
You can't convert 0.5 seconds into higher degrees.

The creator created the 0.5 weakness with the intent of people reacting in that way. In VS debates, that's a law that's gonna be ignored by the capabilities of people.
 
Ciruno Fortes said:
You can't convert 0.5 seconds into higher degrees.
The creator created the 0.5 weakness with the intent of people reacting in that way. In VS debates, that's a law that's gonna be ignored by the capabilities of people.
Click to expand...
Then how do we explain them having MHS reactions? It literally doesn't make sense to say their reaction is significantly worse than a normal human, but Yujiro can react to a lightning bolt
 
On top of everything previously stated, I don't even think 0.5 was correctly described in the Naruto vs Baki thread, as Muhammad Ali was stated to be able to punch at 0.11 seconds, and he also stated that Jr is faster than him, yet neither has 0.5 Seceond Unconsciousness, so again, this all but proves it has nothing to do with reaction time
 
Then it seems more like a contradiction of the ability itself, and is unlikely to be an actual accurate ability that should be used on a match.

On the first place, it's less "Oh clearly this ability is much faster than we expected" and more the author didn't think it through.


Also the reason we explain them having MHS reactions? Simple. The author believes in the limit of 0.5 seconds. Usually we use calcs to get an estimate of how fast their reactions are since this stuff is not something the author accounts for. In this case, the author set the 0.5 as a constant pre-reflex thing for the Baki universe.

That's it really. But now it seems to be contradicted by other feats in the verse so it becomes more questionable on it having to be included
 
Ciruno Fortes said:
Then it seems more like a contradiction of the ability itself, and is unlikely to be an actual accurate ability that should be used on a match.
On the first place, it's less "Oh clearly this ability is much faster than we expected" and more the author didn't think it through.


Also the reason we explain them having MHS reactions? Simple. The author believes in the limit of 0.5 seconds. Usually we use calcs to get an estimate of how fast their reactions are since this stuff is not something the author accounts for. In this case, the author set the 0.5 as a constant pre-reflex thing for the Baki universe.

That's it really. But now it seems to be contradicted by other feats in the verse so it becomes more questionable on it having to be included
Click to expand...
This seems like a simple fix: saying that it's actually 0.5 seconds is a Death of the Author fallacy, and this site accepts that it works on MHS or lower and in speed equalized
 
Usually it would work on such MHS speeds if it wasn't an ability that specified the seconds of human reactions.

If it was like "There is a bit of time before any human can act upon their reactions" I would've believed you in the past already.

But this specifically contradicts feats and calcs. To me it makes more sense that it's an ability that just doesn't make sense on the context of if they can really move that fast. You can't just upgrade an ability and say it works for MHS.
 
Ciruno Fortes said:
Usually it would work on such MHS speeds if it wasn't an ability that specified the seconds of human reactions.
If it was like "There is a bit of time before any human can act upon their reactions" I would've believed you in the past already.

But this specifically contradicts feats and calcs. To me it makes more sense that it's an ability that just doesn't make sense on the context of if they can really move that fast. You can't just upgrade an ability and say it works for MHS.
Click to expand...
Again, Death of the Author makes the "its only 0.5 seconds because the author said so" an Association fallacy, either we take the author's word for it, who has proven himself unreliable on this topic, or the site's accepted calcs
 
Baki and Oliva don't have 0.5s of rs, that's just the name of the technique because that's the rs regular people have.
 
@Baki

Tbh, I don't know what Death of the Author Fallacy means. Mind explaining it to me? First time I heard of it and thought I asked it in the previous thread

See that's the usual case. But it's different from say in Kengan where a character is said to be unable to react to a bullet being shot at them, when there's literal Supersonic Feats countering that.

Here, the thing contradicting that are the calcs. You get one or the other. I mean from what I've seen in debtes that tried to use this, some people rejected it.


@KG

Yeah. Regular people in that verse have 0.5 of rs

Anyone else on another verse can either fall in the same line or way higher in terms of subconscious reaction. That's all there is to it.
 
Death of the Author holds that an author's intentions should hold no special weight in determining an interpretation of their writing.

Basically, it doesn't matter what the author said, as he is clearly wrong according to this site. 0.5 Seconds is not actually 0.5 seconds
 
Oh yeah that's true. In that case this is simpler than I thought. We just ignore the 0.5.

Since it clearly states-

>There is a 0.5 second time where someone doesn't react in a Book research feat in the franchise

>But feat wise, people have reacted to faster things such as Hypersonic+ attacks

>Therefore, the ability is clearly wrong

>There we can't use this ability

You can't upgrade it and twist the author's intentions and say "This isn't actually 0.5 seconds. This is 0.0005 seconds" or such
 
Thats not what happens. We know for certain that there is a gap between choosing to do something and doing something in Baki. The only thing that gets disregarded is the 0.5 second timeframe as its shown to be blatantly false, not the ability to exploit this gap.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Thats not what happens. We know for certain that there is a gap between choosing to do something and doing something in Baki. The only thing that gets disregarded is the 0.5 second timeframe as its shown to be blatantly false, not the ability to exploit this gap.
Click to expand...
 
As a matter of fact, I might do a CRT to add to the respective pages that 0.5 Seconds isn't actually 0.5 seconds
 
@Anonymous

I think for any other ambigious feat it would be fair.

But when it's repeated to be that, and the skill itself isn't really used any other occasion aside from what I assume to be 3 instances in 2 battles, then I'm really really unsure if it makes sense.

If it wasn't so exactly specific to be reinforcing 0.5 seconds, then I wouldn't be so against this.
 
It doesn't matter what number it gives if the feat is contradicted. The author could have listed pi to the 100th decimal and nothing would change the fact that he is wrong the moment the characters start performing feats beyond this limitation that is only mentioned a few times, by your own admission. Its not like this is the Kage Bunshin of the series where it gets spammed in every single fight the user is in, which happens 5 times every arc from the first chapter to the last, with its mechanics explained more than Pot of Greed to constantly retcon any superior feats the characters have.

As it stands the issue here is that the ability doesn't do what it says on the tin which would be a naming fallacy like High 3-A Big Bang attack.
 
The real cal howard said:
By that logic, Dio's timestop actually lasts .0000000005 seconds because it's 5 seconds to his MFTL reactions.
Click to expand...
If 5 seconds isn't proper to the reaction time, either his speed and reaction time is wrong and it's 5 seconds, or his speed is correct, but it's not 5 seconds. Same thing with this situation. Either the author is right or the site is, but it's abundantly clear that both isn't true in this situation
 
Or maybe the creator has a specific limit on said ability and we shouldn't think our own calcs especially if were doing chain calcs, be superior to the original.... @Baki last

@Anon

It matters when it contradicts common logic in other verses. The burden is on you to provide this scaling chain. It's up to you to prove the creator wrong and that theyre nerfing the characters.

Onmobile but except it does?? Then again I dont debate Naruto

Either way whatever debate this gets included in against another character Im going to be against. This is like that time eith the whole subjective reality Baki all over again.
 
As previously stated, the move only allows for Baki and Yujiro to bypass a naturally occurring phenomenon of reaction. Not only does this site say Baki and Yujiro can react faster than 0.5 seconds, but even the author has stated as much several times (Ali can punch in 0.11 seconds, Ali Jr is confirmed faster, Yujiro casually kept up with a Musashi that moved at Mach 10). Again, to say Baki characters only react at 0.5 seconds is wrong, no matter who says it. Death of the Author clearly outlines that Itagaki Kisuke can be wrong about feats, even as the author. 0.5 seconds bypasses MHS reactions.
 
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