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Limited Subjective Reality for Baki, Yujiro, and possibly Yuichiro.

KGiffoni

KGiffoni

VS Battles
Retired
2,742
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People can smell the imaginary Tofu Yujiro made, Nomi no Sukune II can grab the horns from the imaginary triceratops Baki made, Yujiro can get kicked by the imaginary Baki Baki made, the imaginary Yujiro Yujiro made can enlighten an entire city block with a flash, i think these are enough reasons to perceive them not as illusions but similarly to Musashi's blades, as limited subjective reality. Other arguments can probably be made but these are the ones i can remember rn.
 
I'm here and I'm following. I'm pretty 50/50 on this and could see it go either way, so I'll wait for further arguments
 
Isn't this just tricking the senses? Do you have scans?

Cause this could just be the imagery of "someone grabbing or catching an attack"
 
Then that's the likelier ability after looking at that.

On the first place if such an ability exists for Baki it would be a big deal and is less about martial arts in the first place. I know some martial arts manga has supernatural abilities and such, but that sounds far too different from what would be conveyed by Baki.

It sounds more like Social Influencing with how you can give off the image of danger to a target or so.
 
Just to clarify, it isn't Social Influencing

Social Influencing is ones ability to manipulate other characters using some form of charm

There's no use of charm or convincing of any kind. If this is unclear, compare its use to the examples listed
 
It's still far from Subjective Reality impo.

It sounds like another use of Social Influencing that could be added to the power's page or maybe a new ability on the site.
 
Yujiro's Demon was visible to thousands of people, most who don't even know him (and the ones who do sure don't like him), Baki's TF, as stated during the Sukune fight, changed Baki's weight (as the Triceratops) from 70 kilos (as stated by Yujiro during their fight) to 50 tons (as stated by Sukune), and Musashi's who's images are the strongest of the group, could not only give the feeling of people being cut, but they could feel how they were cut, they could feel themselves falling to pieces, and some people even passed out from the pain
 
That's still not Subjective Reality though. SR is literal fiction hax, manipulating fake/imaginary/not real and making them exist.

What the Baki characters are doing is like inducing a ""placebo effect"" in everyone around them by using imagination and movements. It's entirely different from SR.
 
That's not Limited Subjective Reality. Subjective reality is turning into a demon and immediately being seen as such by cameras.

Weight changing could just be a physical biological effect.

And for Musashi, none of them were cut were they? It was just phantom pain or do you have some scans of them being cut?

Most of that is an 'image' granted to the sight of many. Hell, some series have that effect too but none of them have that ability. Maybe it's not exactly Social Influencing, but if they was a chart of "Social Influence or Subjective Reality (limited)", it would be much closer to the former.


Could you link those pages by the way? If not it's cool.
 
Dienomite22 said:
That's still not Subjective Reality though. SR is literal fiction hax, manipulating fake/imaginary/not real and making them exist.
What the Baki characters are doing is like inducing a ""placebo effect"" in everyone around them by using imagination and movements. It's entirely different from SR.
Click to expand...
What Musashi has is labeled as very limited subjective reality. "Subjective Reality is the power that allows the user to manipulate the boundary between reality and unreality. " The swords aren't real, they're imaginary. Yet they can actually cut stuff. Something that doesn't exist (unreality) can cause effects that exist (reality).

 
Ciruno Fortes said:
That's not Limited Subjective Reality. Subjective reality is turning into a demon and immediately being seen as such by cameras.
Weight changing could just be a physical biological effect.

And for Musashi, none of them were cut were they? It was just phantom pain or do you have some scans of them being cut?

Most of that is an 'image' granted to the sight of many. Hell, some series have that effect too but none of them have that ability. Maybe it's not exactly Social Influencing, but if they was a chart of "Social Influence or Subjective Reality (limited)", it would be much closer to the former.


Could you link those pages by the way? If not it's cool.
Click to expand...
Musashi said he'd need the "real thing" to cut Pickle, what implies that his imaginary blades can actually cut stuff but aren't as effective as actual swords in his hands.
 
@KGriffoni

I know what you're talking about and yeah, that doesn't fit the current definition of SI but it's fundimentally the same in outcome and it's definitely not SR.
 
I'll call Amlad22 to check this thread, i still stand with very limited SR until someone gives a reason why it's not SR.
 
Subjective Reality is the power that allows the user to manipulate the boundary between reality and unreality. It allows the user to induce reality to what is fiction, fantasy or imaginary, bringing them into existence, as well as turning facts, entities and events into unreality, vanishing them as if they were a mere dream or illusion.

None of that is here, all that is happening is that they are basically forcing the placebo effect onto others causing them to feel and see things that do not actually exist at all.Like I said earlier, it's more akin to Social Influencing or a new ability altogether.
 
@KG

Watching first vid, this actually reminds me of another feat from a manga where a girl watching a fight through a TV imagined the fight as some sort of Kaiju War. The Triceratops has nothing actually showing anyone turning into one and the moment they clash, it really looks more like imagery as a dinosaur rather than actually becoming one. This is literally them showing off their strength and 'looking' like that. Watched till 5:53, this is really nothing more than metaphor and imagery. A showcase of how poweful they look, not literally becoming what they make.

Next vid... Great OSTs btw, well some of em, this is literally https://youtu.be/81D5fwpT7Eo?t=1382 debunked here. 24:31, he almost believed in a fantasy. There's no real Miso soup or table. They use a mime in comparison too. They were miming and faking it.

@ Musashi

Rather than that... It seems likelier that it's Phantom Pain inducement and not subjective reality. If it really was, someone's gonna get injured. It's more of a showcase it seems on how strong he can be and how fearsome.
 
Dienomite22 said:
Subjective Reality is the power that allows the user to manipulate the boundary between reality and unreality. It allows the user to induce reality to what is fiction, fantasy or imaginary, bringing them into existence, as well as turning facts, entities and events into unreality, vanishing them as if they were a mere dream or illusion.
None of that is here, all that is happening is that they are basically forcing the placebo effect onto others causing them to feel and see things that do not actually exist at all.Like I said earlier, it's more akin to Social Influencing or a new ability altogether.
Click to expand...
How can you possibly have the placebo effect of being kicked in the face?
 
@KGriffoni

It's Baki, the same series that had Baki shadow box an imaginary human sized mantis. It's just the placebo effect taken to the extreme but not actually making fake/imaginary attacks real.
 
I'll wait for Amlad to awnser this, then perhaps i'll change my opinion. But both sides have good points
 
It sounds like a similar and lesser form of Ultimate Routine from Toriko which is considered Pseudo reality warping

Ultimate Routine: A mind technique to increase the success rate and potential of another technique. It's basically the "mind over body" concept taken to the next level. The user creates an image of the technique and concentrates on it in order to make themselves believe, without a doubt, that it will happen (similar to how placebo medicine can work when the patient believes it will work). The drawback is that the "impression" is sensed by those around (similar to how a confident leader can give the "impression" of success; inspiring his followers) and that the extreme concentration and impeccable self-confidence required to perform the technique consumes an enormous amount of energy to maintain.

Not saying it's pseudo reality warping, just trying to figure out what this is.
 
@Baki

Funny thing, I actually tried pushing my hand against a scale. Depending on how hard you push against it, you can get a heavier weight. More importantly that seems more like a showcase of "Hitting harder than your weight is". It's a feat, but you don't need SR or LSR to do that.

Er... The light thing is really weird. I can't really contest that since others saw that. But that doesn't seem like an LSR to me. Seems more like an ability to actually unleash light and an image of a smiling demon with how fearsome they are. This might be the strongest argument you have but that's mostly because it's kinda vague, but even then it's not really a showing of LSR.

@ Musashi Okay this one's a good one, but again, that's not really LSR. That's like phantom pain again. No actual cuts induced. Sure he feels it, but it's not real.

This one's good too on the weight but again, you don't need LSR for this one. It's another one of that "Looks imposing as **** that you look like something" or etc
 
Really all you need is for them to reference that they can do stuff like this. Everything they did can be categorized into other abilities that aren't LSR.

Because if this gets placed into debating, people are gonna make up stuff that they never did before.

Apologies for double post but someone's likely gonna post after this. Can't talk much on this due to busyness
 
The one that's not perception manipulation is likely Musashi depending on if he actually damaged Baki or not with the 'slice and dice' effect or if it was just a sensation that looked so real it stunned him.
 
Ciruno Fortes said:
@Baki
Funny thing, I actually tried pushing my hand against a scale. Depending on how hard you push against it, you can get a heavier weight. More importantly that seems more like a showcase of "Hitting harder than your weight is". It's a feat, but you don't need SR or LSR to do that.

Er... The light thing is really weird. I can't really contest that since others saw that. But that doesn't seem like an LSR to me. Seems more like an ability to actually unleash light and an image of a smiling demon with how fearsome they are. This might be the strongest argument you have but that's mostly because it's kinda vague, but even then it's not really a showing of LSR.

@ Musashi Okay this one's a good one, but again, that's not really LSR. That's like phantom pain again. No actual cuts induced. Sure he feels it, but it's not real.

This one's good too on the weight but again, you don't need LSR for this one. It's another one of that "Looks imposing as **** that you look like something" or etc
Click to expand...
I agree in that I don't yet think Baki and Yujiro have LSR, but Musashi actually already has it I believe, and I'm inclined to agree with that one. He's not actually making them, nor or the blades tangible (hence the limited), but the effects are felt to the point where the affected actually feel themselves die.
 
Yeah but even Iapitus seemed unsure of adding it and wanted feedback about it.

This one I'm really 50/50 on too.

But still, that's not LSR. That's more like Phantom pain. Some people can faint from phantom pain, even if it's not real. Like when a shonen manga has someone swing a punch so hard but stops.... because the opponent fainted from the attack before it even hit them.


Honestly, I really want to get to Baki again. Maybe once it's Christmas I'll catch up. I certainly won't mind adding more profiles or such
 
@Edwartruong2006

This is what Antoniofer had to say about that.

Perception Manipulation is more mind based, not just alter ones senses, but also how someone interprete the information obtained by them. Sense Manipulation is subpower of Biological Manipulation (Body), only limited to alter how one obtain information throw senses, they can still tell if something is wrong (like, this is not supossed to taste this way, or this isn't supossed to hurt that much).
 
This is an interesting topic. Compared to Musashi's ability to cause pain with imaginary swords, these powers are a lot less flashy but it may still be a very limited form of subjective reality. The food example is a really good one as Yujiro can use his imagination to make food out of nothing that other people can see. Sure it could be illusion creation or perception manipulation, but Musashi has shown us that subjective reality is a thing in this verse for the god tiers. I'd say I'm leaning towards subjective reality for the Hanma's as of now.
 
Not really.

Musashi's feat itself is already better to be covered in a different category since it doesn't induce actual slicing. Only the feeling of it. That's more on the senses.

The food thing was great, but everything in it contradicts it and says it's nothing more than an illusion. A literal mime is shown to reference the scene itself.


If this really is a power in Baki? I'm pretty sure everyone would've made a pretty big deal about it and would actually use it in better combat. Musashi is the only exception but that's because his 'showing' is a combat ability on the first place that doesn't need to overlap with that.

No one's turning into any actual Triceratops and leaving Triceratops footsteps.
 
Well Musashi is the only one who can use it in combat, that's his thing. But I will say, if Musashi only causing pain with his imaginary swords isn't subjective reality, then nobody should have it. I am under the impression what Musashi does is considered subjective reality.
 
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